Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
If an Independent Character joins/starts in squad, he counts as a member till he leaves. But unless he has any infiltrate/scout/deep strike rules, these cannot be used with them.
But what if an independant characters joins a unit and then an ability like this is added to the whole squad.
If my Hive Tyrant told my warriors (troops) to outflank with a Tyranid prime attached, is that allowed?
If my 40 conscripts outflanked with a Lord Commissar due to Creed's Tactical Genius, is that allowed also?
This is an easy yes or no question.... but what is it?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/26 13:54:38
Lennysfury wrote:Not sure about Creeds rule but as for Hive commander it is a no. It only gives the ability to the troop not the HQ.
But if an independant character joins the squad he becomes part of the Troop. The Hive Commander wouldn't work for the independant character on his own, right?
Lennysfury wrote:Not sure about Creeds rule but as for Hive commander it is a no. It only gives the ability to the troop not the HQ.
But if an independant character joins the squad he becomes part of the Troop. The Hive Commander wouldn't work for the independant character on his own, right?
Just like in DoW deployment, a Prime is an HQ attached to a Troop unit. Trying to outflank the Prime won't work because Hive Commander specifies Troop.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
Lennysfury wrote:Not sure about Creeds rule but as for Hive commander it is a no. It only gives the ability to the troop not the HQ.
But if an independant character joins the squad he becomes part of the Troop. The Hive Commander wouldn't work for the independant character on his own, right?
Just like in DoW deployment, a Prime is an HQ attached to a Troop unit. Trying to outflank the Prime won't work because Hive Commander specifies Troop.
Ok sorry about that, thanks. What about Creed then?
on the other hand Nobz they decided it was in the best interest of ork society that they "Go Green" as such they specifically modified their warbikes to not make giant smoke, dust, grit, clouds. Instead they are all about driving with clean air, one might say their bikes Gak out rainbows.
I think the answer is yes for Creed, but I have a small issue with the timing.
Tactical Genius allows you to "choose a single infantry or vehicle unit"
This choice is made "during deployment"
The chosen unit has the Scouts special rule for the duration of the battle.
The Lord Commissar is an IC (HQ infantry unit) attached to the Conscripts (Troops infantry unit)
I need to research a bit more, but I believe that the above counts as 2 kill points, 2 Force org slots, but only one unit for the purposes of rules that count units.
ex1 : if an IC joins IC, it forms "a powerful multi-character unit" p48 BRB ex2 : "If a unit that has been joined by an independent character assaults into close combat, the character assaults too, as it is part of the unit" p49 BRB
Thus the above unit seems eligible for Creed's ability. My only issue is with the timing of giving it to them in time to outflank, and I believe there is clear precedent in favor of allowing it.
The primary way an IC joins a unit is by moving into coherency with them. At the end of the movement phase, they are joined. The rules also provide a way to deploy an IC with a unit,
"Alternatively an independent character may begin the game already with a unit, by being deployed in coherency with them." p48 BRB
from a strict interpretation, "by being deployed in coherency with them" might imply "not until it hits the board" I don't think this is the case, as it contradicts well established precedent. Reserves rolls for an IC with a unit are made collectively (one roll), thus strongly implying they have already successfully joined the unit, before hitting the board.
"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action."
Q: If an Independent Character is going to begin a
game joined to a unit when should this be done? (p48)
A: You should nominate which Independent Characters
are joining units at the start of deployment before you
place any units on the board. Note that this should be
done before you nominate which units are being held
in Reserve, Deep Strike or are Outflanking etc
So before you use Creed's ability you join IC's to units, then you can use Creed's ability during deployment. By necessity this also happens before you nominate units for reserves/outflank/deepstrike.
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the general order to do things in is...
1) Mandatory start of phase
2) Optional start of phase
3) Mandatory during phase
4) Optional during phase
5) Mandatory end of phase
6) Optional end of phase
Active player's choice of order if more than one thing falls in the same step.
"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action."
Correct me if I am wrong, but the general order to do things in is...
1) Mandatory start of phase
2) Optional start of phase
3) Mandatory during phase
4) Optional during phase
5) Mandatory end of phase
6) Optional end of phase
Active player's choice of order if more than one thing falls in the same step.
Not quite.
1) Mandatory and Optional Start of Phase
2) Mandatory and Optional Start of Phase
3) Mandatory and Optional Start of Phase
Everything happens simultaneously even though they are resolved separately unless specified otherwise. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
The only official answer (AFAIK) about what simultaneous rule(s) takes precedence is this:
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
lmao. Not really on topic, but well worth the watch
edit: for what it's worth, INATfaq says
"RB.09.02 – Q: How does a player resolve multiple
actions that are supposed to be performed at the
‘start of the turn’?
A: All events or actions that occur at the start of the
turn/movement phase must be performed before the player
takes any voluntary actions. Beyond that restriction, all ‘start
of the turn/movement phase’ actions may be performed in
any order the player wishes, unless specified otherwise
[clarification]."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/26 22:22:26
"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action."
foolishmortal wrote:lmao. Not really on topic, but well worth the watch
edit: for what it's worth, INATfaq says
"RB.09.02 – Q: How does a player resolve multiple
actions that are supposed to be performed at the
‘start of the turn’?
A: All events or actions that occur at the start of the
turn/movement phase must be performed before the player
takes any voluntary actions. Beyond that restriction, all ‘start
of the turn/movement phase’ actions may be performed in
any order the player wishes, unless specified otherwise
[clarification]."
The INAT has no bearing to official rules in anyway and according to the forum rules are not valid to answer any questions in YMDC. GW rulebooks and/or FAQs only.
Nungunz wrote:The INAT has no bearing to official rules in anyway and according to the forum rules are not valid to answer any questions in YMDC. GW rulebooks and/or FAQs only.
karmicly, I'm sure I deserved that. Earlier this evening I chastised some one for bringing up "the most important rule" and even cited the tenants of YMDC at them. Plus there was that puppy I kicked last week...
Still, I did say
foolishmortal wrote:for what it's worth, INATfaq says
"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action."
3000
3000
2500