8th ed CHAOS tactica

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**the.cobb**

Desubot wrote:

Id say avoid the bikes unless you are running renegades. 14" of 24" (on average) is going to require you to roll that hot 10 on the charge. while with renegades you are getting a bonus 6". its also like 50 points cheaper to run a unit of 3 to do tie up work. and sure you could warp time them but i think there are way better choices to throw that on.... usually.

otherwise hands down heldrakes are better for everyone else.

I had dreams of MSU Night Lords bikers advancing up, plasma/flaming all over, killing a few more to morale, and then charging in to stay safe or more likely force a flee. Pays to read the rules properly. I guess I'll settle for the above minus the charge. Hopefully this could collapse a lot of chaff and put pressure on what is behind, then absorb a lot of firepower whilst the reminder of the army trundles up behind to do it's business. Chosen in Rhinos is looking like it'll be part of this trundle.

Hmm. Not gonna win me any grand tournaments, but will be fun to play I'm sure.

**lindsay40k**

StarHunter25 wrote:
So I've been talking over something with a fellow chaos buddy of mine. This FAQ might finally be the proverbial whisper that broke the loyalists soul to get me to finally start summoning. I cannot find anything that even remotely suggest that summoning is the same as arriving from tactical reserve, even in the beta faq nonsense. So deploy a CHAOS CHARACTER last, just behind a frontline unit while allowing a full 12" summon, i.e. can land as close to an enemy as possible. Have at least a daemon patrol detatchment, though that extra 5CP is making me khorny for a double battallion... *excited angry noises*. Anyhoo, use the soul sacrifice stratagem (even CSM can do this. Only thing the FAQ restricted was using daemon keyword stratagems on non Chaos Daemons units). 4d6, with a possible extra cp to reroll to hit 17. Not only does this net extra movement for GUO and Skarbrand, but it also saves them from t1 shooting, and further allows a t1 assault, especially with Thirsters/Skarbrand due to locus. Take it a step further, and use Alpha Legion to infiltrate, then summon a GUO/D-Thirster/KoS into your opponent's backfield. Or for cheap summon fodder use R&H commanders in a supreme command detatchment as summoning fodder. Could we finally see a return of summoning to at least a plausible strategy to get our big punchy daemons upfield without having to soak a round or two of lascannons and earthshakers?

This had me excited, but:

tactical reserves errata wrote:any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere)

Summoning is actually even worse than it was before :/

**eternalxfl**

lindsay40k wrote:

This had me excited, but:

tactical reserves errata wrote:any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere)

Summoning is actually even worse than it was before :/

i'd never even considered that. wow.

**fishwaffle2232**

Given alpha strikes are much harder to pull off, finding new ways to lock down and interupt shooting lines is going to be really important.
I am starting to think Warp talons and raptors may still be somewhst useful in the post FAQ world. If you run them in an alpha legion detachment, for 1 CP you can deploy them 9 inches away from a unit you want to lock down, with 12 inch movement you are pretty much guaranteed a charge turn 1.
Obviously this relies on you going first but its cheaper than heldrake and does a similar job.
Talons maybe are the lesser option due to cost and not taking advantage of warpflame strike but they are still going to cause some havoc. Also a potential target for votlw to increase their damage even more.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can also spend an extra CP and forward operative in a sorcerer or lord for some buffs and/or auras e.g. diabolic strength and prescience. For 2 CP this is going to force your opponent to deal kwith them whilst you move your other threats up the board.

**lindsay40k**

Diabolic Strength only affects a single model, using it on a Squad is super niche.

Could be interesting on a Jump Pack Lord with Murder Sword against Imperium. If they don’t have DTW coverage, could stack that with Warptime for a plucky decapitation strike.

Position things well and the Lord could potentially pile in to the back of a unit the Raptors have engaged, surrounding them and cutting them down in enemy turn.

I’d budget 5CP for this. Three to FO the three units, one to reroll a duff casting attempt, one to reroll a bad charge. (Or give Raptors MoK.)

**fishwaffle2232**

lindsay40k wrote:
Diabolic Strength only affects a single model, using it on a Squad is super niche.

Could be interesting on a Jump Pack Lord with Murder Sword against Imperium. If they don’t have DTW coverage, could stack that with Warptime for a plucky decapitation strike.

Position things well and the Lord could potentially pile in to the back of a unit the Raptors have engaged, surrounding them and cutting them down in enemy turn.

I’d budget 5CP for this. Three to FO the three units, one to reroll a duff casting attempt, one to reroll a bad charge. (Or give Raptors MoK.)

My bad on diabolic strength, prescience is another option for casting. If either the lord or sorcerer survives it also gives you a good potential base for summoning if positioning allows. A unit summoned with soul sacrifice could be really nasty.

**Unit1126PLL**

Hey guys!

How do you guys think a Dark Mechanicus army built around hellforged and daemon engine units would do? I'm thinking Defiler spam - I'd use the other Daemon Engines but I think dinobots look silly.

Is it just not worth it?

**Azuza001**

I run my thousand sons that way, works really well with all the spells we can cast to make them stronger, but they will get targeted quickly and leave you with little to use. I have found that you need to really force the threat level to make it work, like using hellbrutes with fist / scourge and defilers behind them moving up, some serious scarry damage output there.

**EverlastingNewb**

I'm maybe just blind, but i cannot find the FAQ note that Daemon Characters buff CSM Daemon units. Wasn't it in the Death Guard FAQ?

**Captyn_Bob**

EverlastingNewb wrote:
I'm maybe just blind, but i cannot find the FAQ note that Daemon Characters buff CSM Daemon units. Wasn't it in the Death Guard FAQ?

Page 5 of the designers commentary

**EverlastingNewb**

Captyn_Bob wrote:
EverlastingNewb wrote:
I'm maybe just blind, but i cannot find the FAQ note that Daemon Characters buff CSM Daemon units. Wasn't it in the Death Guard FAQ?

Page 5 of the designers commentary

Yeah, i'm actually blind. Thanks

**Blueguy203**

Fellow Dark lords

One thing i have been considering, since the nerf to our fire raptors, are the Hellforged scorpious and Rapier batteries w/ Quad Bolters. I feel that these two will help bring in the fire power we need to compete with gunlines.

thoughts????

**lindsay40k**

Blueguy203 wrote:
Fellow Dark lords

One thing i have been considering, since the nerf to our fire raptors, are the Hellforged scorpious and Rapier batteries w/ Quad Bolters. I feel that these two will help bring in the fire power we need to compete with gunlines.

thoughts????

That, and if you’re taking some Obliterators then they can fill out a cheeky Spearhead for an extra CP.

Nice way to add access to CSM Stratagems if you’re mostly Daemons and DG/TS.

**demontalons**

O hallowed heretics. What of the thousand sons mutalith and it’s buff ability to tzeentch marks? Is it worth it for any combos?

I was thinking that now with no ds til turn 2 a squad of 10 chosen with chainswords in a rhino could do some serious horde clearing. Or just go through units and depending on the buff they can get either an extra ap or strength or reroll charge from said mutalith.

Worth it or nah? Am I better off with regular csm because they’re cheaper? Or are they all too expensive and I should stick to tzaangors?

**Azuza001**

I use my mutalith with a group of tzaangors, but also have a second "optional" target to hit if/ when the gors go down.

The idea of choosen with bolt pistols, chainswords, getting -1ap thanks to the beast actually perks my interest.

Run a choose squad of 10 with swords in a rhino, advance rhino and pop smoke, cast glamor on it for -2 to hit, dark crystal up some tzaangors and a shaman, advance the beast to keep it in range, warptime and eatherstride deamon prince with wings up, that's a solid turn one charge with a solid turn 2 backup with plenty of targets for the beast to use its powers on.

**EverlastingNewb**

So, today i had 2 games post-faq with my Renegade Chapter. Got one list with 2 Heldrakes & one with 3x5 bikes with 2 flamers each.

I've got to say, bikers are - just for me - better by a long shot. I played with a Biker-Lord with an additional Combi-Bolter & AoBF, 3 Slaanesh Steed-Heralds, Maulerfiends & 1 big blob of Possessed. Having a max. of 17 really fast combi-bolters & 6 flamers in the grills of the enemy turn 1, maybe charge if the enemy is to far away, feels really good.

Gonna test some Combi-bolter chosen next week packed in Rhino's. And i wanna test out Skarbrand in combination with Possessed.

**Azuza001**

Cool. Why did you think the helldrakes didn't do as well? Did they get shot up turn 1? (Mine always does for some reason lol)

I'm working on adding a small patrol detachment to my Tsons based off the choosen changes + mutalith vortex beast combo. Won't get to try it until next Thursday though.

**EverlastingNewb**

D6 Damage 2 shots didn't do much & S7 attacks neither. It felt like a slighly faster, less damage dealing Maulerfiend for the prize of a edit Defiler with twin flamer

**Dactylartha**

EverlastingNewb wrote:
So, today i had 2 games post-faq with my Renegade Chapter. Got one list with 2 Heldrakes & one with 3x5 bikes with 2 flamers each.

I've got to say, bikers are - just for me - better by a long shot. I played with a Biker-Lord with an additional Combi-Bolter & AoBF, 3 Slaanesh Steed-Heralds, Maulerfiends & 1 big blob of Possessed. Having a max. of 17 really fast combi-bolters & 6 flamers in the grills of the enemy turn 1, maybe charge if the enemy is to far away, feels really good.

Gonna test some Combi-bolter chosen next week packed in Rhino's. And i wanna test out Skarbrand in combination with Possessed.

I like your style, Dude. I have a mob of 20 possessed I'm looking to try to run in with a storm eagle, disembark and deep strike skarbrand turn 2 and catch up with a DP of Khorne with crimson crown. Can't wait, except for skarbrand's currently headless and that storm eagle is the no-joke most frustrating kit I've ever assembled (still not compete)

**Azuza001**

EverlastingNewb wrote:
D6 Damage 2 shots didn't do much & S7 attacks neither. It felt like a slighly faster, less damage dealing Maulerfiend for the prize of a edit Defiler with twin flamer

That's interesting. I have always had good luck with me hell turkey when it lives, it's killed a trygon before, taken out custodies, and been a regular pain in the rear for tau pathfinders. But it's a good point, would bikes have done just as well. . . I would have to think on that.

**Nature's Minister**

I think I might pick up a couple scorpius platforms. Ignoring los looks too good to pass up.

**vaklor4**

The Heldrake from when i've used it has usually done it's job. It absorbs a LOT of aggro and damage, and when it actually comes to blows against enemy flyers, it tears them to shreds. And now that deepstrike isn't turn 1, a 30" move is WAY stronger.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I think the Heldrake is gonna be strong against Dark Eldar at minimum, so two will be a solid choice.

**Badablack**

I’ve been looking for decent first turn chargers in this terrifying post-faq world, has anyone tried Slaanesh soup? Slaanesh Herald with locus on steed, with a bunch of Warp Talons or Possessed, and a Slaanesh Steed Sorcerer. If you can get off warptime that’s easily 17-20” on the Possessed, almost 30” on the Talons. Add in the rest of the Slaanesh spells and stratagems and you’ve got a big unit of 5+ FNP +2 wounding daemons that can attack twice in the next turn. Possessed probably work better, just due to costing less per wound.

**EverlastingNewb**

Badablack wrote:
I’ve been looking for decent first turn chargers in this terrifying post-faq world, has anyone tried Slaanesh soup?

Yes, erm.. 9 post up on the same page

I ran the list pre & post FAQ. Now it's just more rewarding as T-1 charges aren't that common anymore. But you don't have to run the Possessed as Slaanesh, Renegade chapter basically does the same. The bigger
bonus running a slaanesh soup is the potential T1 charge for Daemonengines, mainly Maulerfiends, Decimator & Defiler. Defiler with scourge needs Warptime, but that's still 17-22" movement before the charge.
Though the Locus of Grace isn't worth it unless you roll a 3 on the attacks for possessed & got 15-20 possessed in CQC.

**Dr.Duck**

Thinking bout putting a list together out of some old models I had.
Have terminators, oblits and some cultists.

Was thinking that Chaos terminators are probably best terminators so thinking bout 10x MoS combiplas terms, 3x3 oblits, cultists, Prince + other stuff (most likey stuff that just stays on the board like havocs, Plaugemarines etc. Ill see If I cant work up a list soon.

Any tips?

**mrhappyface**

Dr.Duck wrote:
Any tips?

Yeah, don't take terminators, the FAQ killed them.

**Dr.Duck**

mrhappyface wrote:
Dr.Duck wrote:
Any tips?

Yeah, don't take terminators, the FAQ killed them.

Which part? first turn DS? Was mostly plannin on SftS

**mrhappyface**

Dr.Duck wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Dr.Duck wrote:
Any tips?

Yeah, don't take terminators, the FAQ killed them.

Which part? first turn DS? Was mostly plannin on SftS

First turn deepstrike and warptime Nerf. They're just as bad as the loyalist versions now.

Terminators were average with first turn and warptime, now they're just bad.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Not as bad as loyalists. Chaos Terminators at least get combi-plasma as an option.