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My roommate (the one who introduced me to 40k) never the tabletop. His knowledge of 40k fluff is impressive, but he fails to comprehend how the actions described in the books don't exactly translate to victories in the tabletop. To be sure, SM are fairly survivable, and have good WS and BS, and other races tend to represented about how I think they should be, but...come on. My Termies got lasbolted to death by IG due to gakky rolls. That never happens. He's going to start building an army after a sale that our local shop is running next month. How do I explain to him that he shouldn't build an army based on how the fluff describes units, but on how useful they are in the tabletop? He's been incredibly stubborn about this, but I don't want him to start getting into it and get all pissed off because the army he built is rubbish.

Surely building an army based on what you think is cool is part of the game? If he likes fluff more than winning games it might not be such a big deal to him. Is your local gaming group really competitive, because then I could understand your desire to stop your friend being savaged in every game, but otherwise, it's just a bit of fun. I know at the store I used to play at there was a real mix, and the guys who just played with a model collection rather than an efficient list just avoided playing the waac guy.

Let him build his army however he wants. When he starts, it's his hobby as well, not just yours.

Just... let him buy what he wants. Live and let live. It's still very possible to win with a fluffy army - it just requires a high level of player skill. If he really doesn't enjoy it - then you should advise him on what to purchase. But really, fluffgaming is just another way to enjoy the hobby - I say let him do it.

Problem is, he's stubborn. I see where you guys are coming from, and if he was able to just sit down with something and enjoy it, I would totally let him. Hell, I started building with Space Marines because of Graham McNeill. I dunno. Money tends to not be a concern for us (military very rarely tends to work out in a good way) but I don't want to see him sink 400 bucks in something he's not going to stick with. I'd feel bad for trying to bring him into the fold.

I think it's fine. I started out with Eldar and decided to buy every single unit in the codex just for the sake of having every unit in the codex. And that's what I did. As others have said, if collecting or fluff is more important to him than winning battles, then his 400 bucks will not go wasted. He may even become an expert at using those "fluffy" units and beat people with them.

I actually support the concept of a themed army. They tend to be a lot more interesting than "competitive" lists.

So he shouldn't get terminators because they can fail saving throws against lasguns?
Sounds like YOU are having difficulty with strategy, not him...

I'm pretty sure this was mentioned in a WD article once... You should start out buying models you want. I know I wouldn't be as motivated to use an army if it contained models I only bought for their tactical ability.

I have to agree, battle tactics aren't as important as a love for your army and imagining them doing what they do. Just tell your friend to realize fluff and strategy are different aspects to the game and ask which he is most into a game of chess or having the models of his favorite chapter for good or for ill? I get what you are saying, he should buy what is useful to increase his love of the army but it works both ways some people want "use" others want "fashion" for example someone buy 3 leman russes before even having troopers. It takes all kinds, without the proper amount of love for the army then HE WON'T WANT TO INVEST so forcing his hand is where you are not giving him the breathing room to make his choice.

My suggestion? Offer your opinion of mechanics in gameplay to him. Simply say hey you buy what you want but i can offer advise on how they typically do in battle as well. Also on a personal note i think I completely see a terminator dying to a hail of las fire, even if some of the rpgs and gak don't make sense for it to me even the powerful terminator can be slowed and eventually knocked over from the amount of energy washing over him like wave after wave of the ocean. It's unlikely but they will start to wear down his armor, sever needed power cords, blind him with burning residue in the eyes and if that doesn't work i'm sure gernades and heavy weaponry could count as the saving grace at the end of it all.

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
Also on a personal note i think I completely see a terminator dying to a hail of las fire, even if some of the rpgs and gak don't make sense for it to me even the powerful terminator can be slowed and eventually knocked over from the amount of energy washing over him like wave after wave of the ocean. It's unlikely but they will start to wear down his armor, sever needed power cords, blind him with burning residue in the eyes and if that doesn't work i'm sure gernades and heavy weaponry could count as the saving grace at the end of it all.

Or it could slip through a joint in his armor and sever an artery. Remember that losing a wound doesn't always mean "dead". It could also mean "incapacitated". I believe it actually specified that in the BRB.

If you want to reconcile fluff versus game effects, the abstraction gets in the way.

For example, a unit fires into termies. On the tabletop, it takes roughly 18 hits to fell a terminator, or 18 rapid firing guardsmen. Now, what if instead the guardsmen all overcharged their las, burning out the powercells, and concentrating on one spot on the termie. Or, the storm of lasguns rupture powerlines and ammofeeds, making the termie an immovable hunk, effectively killing it as a threat. Or perhaps a lasbolt hits the termies eyes, blinding the marine.

Since we dont know what a casualty on the tabletop is, we cant even describe how the lasgun defeated the terminator armor.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Or it could slip through a joint in his armor and sever an artery. Remember that losing a wound doesn't always mean "dead". It could also mean "incapacitated". I believe it actually specified that in the BRB.

It does specify something like this in the BRB

Knocked unconscious, too injured to fight, or incapacitated in some other way is the fluff behind it.

You can even imagine the helmet and the optics (Eye Lenses) have been hit by the fire, and the helmet is stuck and the optics are unusable.

Don't let him buy what he wants clearly. Chain him to the bed if you must.

Well, thanks for all the responses. I can see where pretty much all of you are coming from. Guess I was being a little arrogant in how I was approaching the subject. Thanks for the advice guys. I'll post pictures of his army here in a month or so after he builds it.