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Several years ago, I considered making a chaos army based on the Fallen Dark Angels. Well, this certainly isn't going to happen now; I mean, I already have 2 40k armies and both are no where near finished. But still, I was wondering...was I on the right track?

Here's the fluff I came up with (barely remembering it, so bare with me)

A high ranking fugitive fallen angel, along with a band of other fallen retreated into the Eye of Terror and made a deal with Fabius Bile (or whatever his name was. I remember thinking that he was awesome all those years ago). In exchange for a clone army of marines (Bile could do that, right?), The Fallen would give him lots of "subjects" to experiment with. They would have a sort of night lords style relationship with the warp, that is they won't use demons.

Here's what I thought of to include in the army

-Chosen would wear robes, to represent actual fallen (the ones who came with the high ranking fallen)
-No demons
-I forgot the rest. It was a LONG time ago.

So was I on the right track, or was it just a stupid idea concocted by a 13-15 year old who was just getting into terms with the fluff?

I think clones is going a bit too far. Just say that the new recruits are slaves and captives!

Addendum:

Dunno if you know, but there's a pic of a marine in C:CSM who's in black power armour and DA robes, the warband is listed as 'UNKNOWN'.

Henners91 wrote:I think clones is going a bit too far. Just say that the new recruits are slaves and captives!

Addendum:

Dunno if you know, but there's a pic of a marine in C:CSM who's in black power armour and DA robes, the warband is listed as 'UNKNOWN'.

Yeah, I saw that picture actually. That's where I got the inspiration.
Also, how would the slaves and captives serve the warband?
It would be a bit darker though, having unwilling human captives forcibly made into CSM and mindwiped to become subservient.

I guess it's possible, cloning is generally forbidden in Imperial creed as far as I can recall, and would be Chaotic enough. I think the Black Legion tried to clone Horus post-heresy but Abaddon destroyed the copies. It's possible and works well enough.

Brother SRM wrote:I guess it's possible, cloning is generally forbidden in Imperial creed as far as I can recall, and would be Chaotic enough. I think the Black Legion tried to clone Horus post-heresy but Abaddon destroyed the copies. It's possible and works well enough.

So my idea as a nooby wasn't too far off then? Wow...that's fairly impressive. And I didn't even collect CSM

Is Fabius Bile even in the current codex as a entry? I don't recall seeing him in there.

Last I knew he was. Also this is exactly what my CSM army was based off of. Lots of robes and DA bits all over the place.

Ok cool.
Aw, now I've got suddenly the urge to start CSM. Oh well, maybe after my existing armies are done.
Out of curiousity, would the Fallen enlist other chaos marines, like Night Lords and Death Guard?

Fabulous Bile is in there but kinda blows. His weapon causes instant death but isn't a power weapon. His upgraded Marines are fun but not amazing.

Chaos Marines enlist the help of other Marines sometimes, wouldn't be a surprise if the Fallen did too. Your army can end up looking kind of like a circus if you do too much of that though.

Brother SRM wrote:Fabulous Bile is in there but kinda blows. His weapon causes instant death but isn't a power weapon. His upgraded Marines are fun but not amazing.

Chaos Marines enlist the help of other Marines sometimes, wouldn't be a surprise if the Fallen did too. Your army can end up looking kind of like a circus if you do too much of that though.

Yeah. If I ever go chaos, I'll just have night lord raptors, and make everyone else clones/fallen.
Planning armies that probably won't happen is fun!

I always wanted to do this but treat it as more "honourable" fallen, base it off the DA codex and treat them as Fallen brothers trying to redeem themselves

optimusprime14 wrote:I always wanted to do this but treat it as more "honourable" fallen, base it off the DA codex and treat them as Fallen brothers trying to redeem themselves

Isn't that plan inherently flawed from a fluff perspective? I thought the DA never forgive anyone, especially the Fallen.
Its still a pretty cool idea though. I do like misunderstood outcasts.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

optimusprime14 wrote:I always wanted to do this but treat it as more "honourable" fallen, base it off the DA codex and treat them as Fallen brothers trying to redeem themselves

Isn't that plan inherently flawed from a fluff perspective? I thought the DA never forgive anyone, especially the Fallen.
Its still a pretty cool idea though. I do like misunderstood outcasts.

I'm well aware of that. In this case redemption would be an honourable death. I always like the idea of the fallen as a "lost" army, not given in to Chaos but rejected by their brothers...

optimusprime14 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

optimusprime14 wrote:I always wanted to do this but treat it as more "honourable" fallen, base it off the DA codex and treat them as Fallen brothers trying to redeem themselves

Isn't that plan inherently flawed from a fluff perspective? I thought the DA never forgive anyone, especially the Fallen.
Its still a pretty cool idea though. I do like misunderstood outcasts.

I'm well aware of that. In this case redemption would be an honourable death. I always like the idea of the fallen as a "lost" army, not given in to Chaos but rejected by their brothers...

Yeah, that is a really cool idea, actually. It reminds me of something else, but I can't remember what.
I think it was either from some fantasy or some history thing. Oh well.

optimusprime14 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

optimusprime14 wrote:I always wanted to do this but treat it as more "honourable" fallen, base it off the DA codex and treat them as Fallen brothers trying to redeem themselves

Isn't that plan inherently flawed from a fluff perspective? I thought the DA never forgive anyone, especially the Fallen.
Its still a pretty cool idea though. I do like misunderstood outcasts.

I'm well aware of that. In this case redemption would be an honourable death. I always like the idea of the fallen as a "lost" army, not given in to Chaos but rejected by their brothers...

That is until GW decides to make a "fallen" elite special unit that the space marines somehow tolerate.....barely.

Oh wait, they do exist lol.

A dark angels CSM army would be AWESOME. So much to work with from a sprue perspective and it fits the fluff wonderfully.

Overall I think it could work.
Fluffwise, it's fairly solid. The only real hole I see is that Fabius never really perfected his creations, so your best bet is to either use Fabius and his 'experiments' in place of stable clones, or to use standard Chaos Space Marines as renegades who have sided with the Fallen.

Gamewise, Chosen are a solid unit and good choice to represent the Fallen. Give them 3x Melta and 2x Flamer and they're a good unit.
You could potentially build a list with Chosen, Fabius & Mutated Marines and it could be competitive in friendly games (not at a tournament, mind).

Just Dave wrote:Overall I think it could work.
Fluffwise, it's fairly solid. The only real hole I see is that Fabius never really perfected his creations, so your best bet is to either use Fabius and his 'experiments' in place of stable clones, or to use standard Chaos Space Marines as renegades who have sided with the Fallen.

Gamewise, Chosen are a solid unit and good choice to represent the Fallen. Give them 3x Melta and 2x Flamer and they're a good unit.
You could potentially build a list with Chosen, Fabius & Mutated Marines and it could be competitive in friendly games (not at a tournament, mind).

Hmm you have a point about Fabius and his clones.
What about brainwashing? Would the fallen abduct SM and make them join them, or kidnap civilians and turn them into SM?
Surely the fallen would know how to make SM.

I think that there are enough fallen still around that a good sized group could have banded together and would have enough warriors for an army. So they wouldn't need to create a mass amount of clones or anything. Other than that they may allow others to join them or they may fight for others as a mercenary force.

Brain-washing would be... a stretch. That they could make new Space Marines is 'impossible', but brain-washing is potentially feasible, if really pushing it.

Again, I'd just say have fallen at the heart of it, with Renegade Chaos Space Marines who have joined them, personally. But that's just me...

Just Dave wrote:Brain-washing would be... a stretch. That they could make new Space Marines is 'impossible', but brain-washing is potentially feasible, if really pushing it.

Again, I'd just say have fallen at the heart of it, with Renegade Chaos Space Marines who have joined them, personally. But that's just me...

Ok...but would the Renegades who join them agree to change colors? I was planning on using a pre-heresy scheme (cause that makes sense)

Yeah, I'd fully imagine they would; Renegades and Chaos Space Marines in general have done so before in the fluff and it makes sense anyway.

Just Dave wrote:Yeah, I'd fully imagine they would; Renegades and Chaos Space Marines in general have done so before in the fluff and it makes sense anyway.

Ok cool. Thanks for the help ^^
Out of curiosity, which Renegades and CSM changed uniform after joining another warband?

Corax also made "clones" but shortly after he killed them all and flew to the Eye of Terror.

Just Dave wrote:The only real hole I see is that Fabius never really perfected his creations, so your best bet is to either use Fabius and his 'experiments' in place of stable clones,

Yeah, but he sure did make a lot of them.

You don't acquire like "The Clone Lord" for nothing.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Just Dave wrote:The only real hole I see is that Fabius never really perfected his creations, so your best bet is to either use Fabius and his 'experiments' in place of stable clones,

Yeah, but he sure did make a lot of them.

You don't acquire like "The Clone Lord" for nothing.

But the question is, are they stable enough to be fielded as a reliable force? Just for one battle I mean.
I could see clones dying in droves on/off battlefield and having to be replaced all the time.

And what about cultist / traitor guard? Or just guardsmen who've been tricked into thinking they were dealing with loyal DA?

He certainly did make a lot of them, but still, as I said, they weren't exactly stable clones. Your conventional clones could be like the ones from Star Wars. Fabius' attempts at clones would probably end up looking more like Possessed.

OP; there's a lot of ways you could go with the Fabius/Clone/creation thing; you could use Fabius and his actual rules, or you could use Marks/Cult Units to differentiate as different types of creations (e.g. tough ones = MoN/Plague Marines), or just use Berzerkers to represent your standard blood-thirsty, raving lunatic creation. Or, you could just use standard CSM's and claim them to be renegades, or even 'stable' creations (which are rare, if at all existent, in the fluff).

As for Guardsmen, there's many, many ways they could work with a CSM force in the fluff. In-game, it's not really legal (unless you have your opponents permission or are using a fandex; e.g. mine. ), but in-fluff it's well supported.

Just Dave wrote:He certainly did make a lot of them, but still, as I said, they weren't exactly stable clones. Your conventional clones could be like the ones from Star Wars. Fabius' attempts at clones would probably end up looking more like Possessed.

OP; there's a lot of ways you could go with the Fabius/Clone/creation thing; you could use Fabius and his actual rules, or you could use Marks/Cult Units to differentiate as different types of creations (e.g. tough ones = MoN/Plague Marines), or just use Berzerkers to represent your standard blood-thirsty, raving lunatic creation. Or, you could just use standard CSM's and claim them to be renegades, or even 'stable' creations (which are rare, if at all existent, in the fluff).

As for Guardsmen, there's many, many ways they could work with a CSM force in the fluff. In-game, it's not really legal (unless you have your opponents permission or are using a fandex; e.g. mine. ), but in-fluff it's well supported.

Well, the 6th ed rumors suggest that cultists might be an actual unit. Apparently, the 6th ed starter will have chaos, but not marines. I could be mistaken, however.
But thanks for helping with the fluff.

Back with the 3.5 chaos codex was out, I was going to do this with space wolves. Fluff was another company trapped in the warp and had to rely on scavenged and more inventive recruitments.

The biggest theme was fallen ancestry. I was going to get a whole bunch of viking and wolf fantasy minis and paint them up as ghosts (treated as bloodletters and damonettes).

The rune priests had figured out how to summon the spirits of their ancestors through the warp to fight along side of them.

So yeah, the OPs idea is totally doable. You just have to go the extra little bit so it doesn't seem just like count as. Really work at why the units have the rules that they do have.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:
You don't acquire like "The Clone Lord" for nothing.

But the question is, are they stable enough to be fielded as a reliable force?

That's what ye olde random chart is for.