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Hey guys, I posted this on my blog (paintinglittlemen.blogspot.com) and on the forums on BoLS, but I am really interested on reaching a wider audience and hearing your take on it (I know some folks are anti-BoLS...so here it is). The recent conversations about the lack of interest in WFB and how much more 40k has to offer really touched a nerve in me...this isn't a defense, it's simply an explanation why I find the WFB universe deep, inspiring and so compelling for me.

Thinking back to a particular post on BoLS where one of the arguments against WFB was that the background/fluff isn't very original, and 40k is much deeper. So why do I find the Old World such a compelling setting? I think the idea of a 14th-16th century European empire transplanted into a world filled with magic, mayan-inspired lizards (visited chichen itza a couple summers ago...amazing. Absolutely dumb struck by what our ancestors created (even with the constant badgering of mexicans trying to sell me cheap trinkets...)), arthurian knights, elven mystique, human/beast hybrids, egyptian undead, vampiric lords, and vikings infused with the power of chaos all waging war on an epic scale is fascinating. For a history/fantasy buff like me, this is as good as it gets. Where else can you wage a battle over an ancient magical artifact with elves of the forest allied with a feudal army from a nearby keep against undead hordes led by a blood thirsty vampire? Where else can norse raiders seeking treasure (a la pizzaro but with giant axes and furs) become ambushed by lizards sallying forth on dinosaurs? Where else can a Holy Roman Empire inspired mass of men, backed by tanks, griffins and mages wage war against a horde of blood crazed dark knights and creatures from our darkest nightmares? The possibilities are almost endless...and GW has so much more they could work with- imagine samurai of nippon attacking a grecian-inspired phalanx (or roman legionaries led by a khornate emperor)...the historical references mixed with tolkien-ist fantasy is simply enthralling. Not to take anything away from 40k; what they've done with that universe, with support from novels, supplements and a sister company is equally awe inspiring. But for anyone with any historical interest, I think that WFB offers an incredible amount of opportunity to indulge in martial conflicts that never occurred, and, with a little imagination, make those real.

So what about you guys? What're some of the conflicts that you love creating on your table top, and what are some that you would like GW to provide support for? Thanks for your time.

JTS

The history aspect is one that appeals to me too. GW use past cultures extremely well to influence their design work.

I would find argument that WHFB is not as "deep" to be in itself, shallow, showing the lack of understanding of WH universe. Why? Because they are likely set in the same universe.
That used to be an open claim in the ages of yore, but nowadays one has to look for the connections to link the two.

Good source to support the claim that WHFB is set in the very same world as 40k are the collected Liber Chaotica works. The books are written from the perspective of scholar of the FB Empire, yet one finds description of chainswords/chainaxes, subtle descriptions of space marines aplenty in the text. Also, along the way, said scholar has occasional visions of the 40k universe.

I believe the old claim was that FB world is isolated from the rest of 40k by warp storms, thus they never suffer any interventions from the outside, save for Chaos. It's also possible that FB is set up by the Chaos gods as a playground where they can wage endless battles and amuse themselves.

Augustine wrote: It's also possible that FB is set up by the Chaos gods as a playground where they can wage endless battles and amuse themselves.

Are you implying that WHFB is actually the Chaos Gods whom collect lots of creatures into big armies and then pit them against each other in a Fantasy world with an extensive background?
... Do they paint the creatures too?

Ive always preferred fantasy over sci-fi myself, maybe its because everything takes more skill/balls in a time before super tech.

I find the background pretty amazing myself and it always interests me.

The CF wrote:

Augustine wrote: It's also possible that FB is set up by the Chaos gods as a playground where they can wage endless battles and amuse themselves.

Are you implying that WHFB is actually the Chaos Gods whom collect lots of creatures into big armies and then pit them against each other in a Fantasy world with an extensive background?
... Do they paint the creatures too?

GENIUS! Yes I bet they also rage about the price and the quality of casts

The CF wrote:

Augustine wrote: It's also possible that FB is set up by the Chaos gods as a playground where they can wage endless battles and amuse themselves.

Are you implying that WHFB is actually the Chaos Gods whom collect lots of creatures into big armies and then pit them against each other in a Fantasy world with an extensive background?
... Do they paint the creatures too?

Touche
Naw, they come prepainted
Though fighting the same three opponents for all eternity gets rather dull, I should think?

I wouldn't say that the background is any more or less deep in WFB than in 40K. To me it seems that WFB fluff is at least more pliable and actually goes somewhere. 40K in a stalemate of seemingly overpowered factions so no matter how deep it is you eventually learn everything there is to know and everything else makes little difference overall.

I like both settings but 40K just seems to make me say "so what" more often.

I don't think 40K is really that much deeper than WHFB. It's actually a pretty shallow story: group X wants resource Y, they go to war.

In the world of WHFB you actually have the concept of alliances, something that simply does not exist in 40K. The Humans would never ally with the Elves in 40K. But in WHFB you have the Dwarfs helping the Humans to set up an Empire, there are multiple factions of humans who get along with eachother (to a greater or lesser degree), and complicated politics even within each faction.

The Orcs especially are an example where the WHFB world is deeper than 40K. In 40K they are an indistinct horde: "Here be Orks." In WHFB, we learn about the different 'classes'(from Snotlings through Trolls), empires, generals, and sub-races (forest, night, and standard goblins) of Greenskins.

Most importantly, IMO, in WHFB you don't have the Mary-Sue killjoy Space Marines who show up to save the day.

That said, I really do enjoy 40K. But I enjoy the game, not so much the fluff.

Having played both and read all about both, I feel inclined to say that FB is much deeper than 40K. Everything in 40K revolves around the super save the dayers, the space marines and the heresy. I have to say thought, that I have always been more attracted to Fantasy then Sci-Fi. Something about that pre "super high tech" stuff that makes it more appealing to me. It' just man vs. man (or beast, undead, etc) with sword and hammers. There's no lasers that can blow the battlefield away. My two coppers...

Fantasy is growing on me for a few reasons.
1. My VC army was cheaper then most my 40k armies
2. One round of shooting typically wont blow you off the board.
3. The games from my exp tend to be more competitive and less about bad matchups.

Oh and I think the fluff for fantasy is more all around solid and less centric on the IoM like 40k.

There's only one reason any rational thinking person plays Fantasy.

Giant spiders.



giant
freaking
spiders.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:There's only one reason any rational thinking person plays Fantasy.

Giant spiders.

giant
freaking
spiders.

I presume that's also the reason why people play Skyrim, then?

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:There's only one reason any rational thinking person plays Fantasy.

Giant spiders.



giant
freaking
spiders.

But... I have massive arachnophobia. Your statement is invalid, sir!

... Which kinda sucks. Because I can't field Spider Riders or the Arachnarok. :(

Arachnophobia=not a "rational thinking person".

I think the big problem with Fantasy is visually, it's just another Fantasy world. YOu really need to dig into the fluff in the army books and the rulebook and expansions to see where it's different from other Fantasy worlds.

On the surface, there's Orcs, Ogres, Trolls, Elves, Skeletons, Vampires, Dwarves and basically everything else you see and expect from a Fantasy world. When you start reading the fluff you start seeing how wrong you were.

True the very deffiniton of phobia has irrational in it.

That said if spiders don't work for you how boput dinosaurs or dragons, or DINOSAURS FIGHTING DRAGONS (It happened in one of my games, still convinced it's the best thing i ever saw).