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With the exception of that brief moment in Helsreach i haven't found any examples of water battles in 40k, is there a reason for this or do they just not happen anymore? like attacking the forces on an island or something

Generally the reason why 40k rarely has anything to do with maritime naval stuff is because of the dominance of air/space power. With all of the fighters, bombers & transport craft in 40k, using waterbourne craft to get from A to assault B is hardly ever applicable UNLESS the world is such that airborne forces can't navigate an aqua world because of phenomena, such as perpetual storms or whatever in the sky that would stop aircraft being of use (an idea I've been working with personally).

Of course on a low-tech/fuedal world maritime vessels may well be the primary way to get from island to continent.

There is scant reference to underwater fighting in one of the Heresy books. I believe it could be Fulgrim. However there was no real reference to actual ships, just Marines kicking ass under the sea... under the sea... captain it's better down where it's wetter, vox com told me.



Under the Sea

under the sea...
under the sea...
captain it's better
down where it's wetter,
vox com told me.

up on the deck they slave all day
out in space they float away
while we slayin'
full time to shootin'
under the sea....

The New Ciaphis Cain Audio CD, involves boats. No naval battles though only patrol craft and fishing boats.

Believe there is a submarine in one of the Blood Angel books that ends up fighting water borne nids.

Also Flesh and Iron by Henry Zou has a fair bit of Water based fun, but again it's more apocalypse now than battle for midway.

Orks have subs in the Assualt of black reach novelette.

I think this

Generally the reason why 40k rarely has anything to do with maritime naval stuff is because of the dominance of air/space power

is probably the reason for there not being any major naval engagements. Think about even now the main power of the Navy is aircraft carriers, with other ships/subs mainly being used as missile deliverance systems. If you have giant space craft capable of unleashining both missiles and atmospheric fighters/bombers your not going to really bother with a Navy.

For one of their big Apocalypse battles the Gw people had Ork pop up on the beach in a sub marine and unload onto the shore, looked awesome and would be conceivable for some situations.
I also remember reading some fluff about SM having a big underwater fight with tau in crisis suits at some point, power armor and landraiders working under water and all.

Alright thanks for the help

I remember reading something, it might have been in the Soul Drinkers series or Let the galaxy Burn where they use ships.

I won't say naval actions are impossible or completely ruled out by the setting.

There are some instances in the fluff in which air/space power is either inadvisable or unavailable. In those cases, anachronism almost always kicks in:

For example, the Death Korps used TRAINS for rearguard logistics during the war for Vraks. I know, that was mostly played to reinforce their Great War gloom, but the arguments Warwick Kindrade used to justify it made some sense: The Vraks Citadel was well guarded against orbital insertion and/or bombardment, so the 88th Siege Army had to land half a continent away from its intended objectives. Trains were used to ferry enormous ammounts of manpower and materiel across great distances. The defenders, without air support or any other means to project their power outside the Citadel, could do nothing but sit in their fortress and wait.

The morals of the story: In 40k, nohing's really that far out if you find a convenient excuse for it

The only battle in regards to water is in the SW codex where the one Wolf Lord ordered his Land Raiders to drive underwater to get at a Tau base that was in the ocean/sea

DarbNilbirts wrote:For one of their big Apocalypse battles the Gw people had Ork pop up on the beach in a sub marine and unload onto the shore, looked awesome and would be conceivable for some situations.

Aye, that was during the Armageddon campaign:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060520211348/http://www.armageddon3.com/English/News/sub-tempestora.asp (not much tho, just a brief mention)

Fro the Imperium to have a proper 'wet navy' component would be a bit difficult. They'd have to haul the ships around onboard ship, need specialized drop vessels to deploy them, etc. Considering that a properly sizable warship would be a fair fraction of a interestellar ship's internal volume (nevremind a whole group) it doesnt make much sense to haul them around unless you absolutely had to. FAr easier just to let the local planetary forces build their own wet navy and 'borrow' it when the situation requires. I'm pretty sure the IG have the power to requisition from local governments if they need to.

Main reason of an absence of naval combat: GW doesn't want to bother making a naval expansion game. There are places known as "Ocean Worlds" where you'd need ships to occupy the planet.

Though I've heard of PDF operating gunboats and Orks in submarines in the past, the latter of which was in Armageddon.

I'm sure a local PDF may employ ships, but yeah ... there's absolutely no reason why the (stellar) Navy and the Guard should bother with this. Any location on land can be reached from orbit, and a facility hidden below sea level ... well, Space Marines or a few lance strikes will do, depending on how much you want it intact.

I think the Chimera is probably the widdest used "boat".

There are almost certainly battles on waterworlds where the Imperium sends vessels and aquatic specialist Guard to participate. It being an empire of a million worlds of a million kinds etc etc.

As mentioned, the Orks managed to avoid the defenders of one hive city by taking to submarines and surfacing inside the city's harbor.

that was highly unorthodox and unexpected though, which was why it worked so well.

that just shows how rare ships are

Happened in the Hellsreach novel, on Armageddon. The orks launched an assault via massed troop-carrying submarines and popped up right in the docks of the city.

In 'Flesh and Iron' there are IG(or PDF? Don't remember) naval ships involved in putting down a rebellion. Trying to remember the justification, I think it was either a.) the rebellion was local in nature so did not require the use of spacecraft / orbital bombardments or b.) the planet was a jungle world and the rebels were hiding in rainforests that covered continents. So the ships would weigh anchor of the coast and be used as mobile base for the IG.

In one of the IG books, Flesh and Iron. there is widespread use of Naval craft. from a titanic battleship (allegedly having several meters thick of adamantium hull armor only peirced by a gunboat packed to the brim with high explosives) to an Aircraft carried where fighters and bombers are launched with the ship being miles wide or something able to hold a large number of Marauders, Lightning strike craft, Vultures etc.

I cannot remember if there was a reason given for the useage of these ships, but i think there was something to do with gigantic siege cannons (think the 800mm Dora Cannons only with 1500mm shells that were more like gigantic Rockets) held by rebels (helped by Chaos dudes) that kept serious deployment of forces at bay (if a ship wandered too close shells would rain and 1 shot ships 5 to 10 times larger then an Iowa Class battleship). and in theory if a large space born landing craft attempted to land these cannon would fire at it en-mass and blow it out of the sky with a single hit.

So the IG forces were forces to have offshore craft send troops and equipment via smaller craft like Chimeras and so called "Orca" gunboats (which if i remember were the size of a small Destroyer of today loaded with guns of every size it could carry.) amoung other smaller ships, onto shore to set up a beach head and bases, while command and aircraft support were kept at sea.


While this is only 1 book. that does not mean useage of Naval craft is extensive. It is more likly that Naval Craft are purpose built for a specific planatary mission and/or are held in reserve somewhere until needed such as in the instance within Flesh and Iron.

The firepower of the Imperial Naval craft would be..... considerable.... giant tri barreled cannons that could level citys with a single salvo with large banks of Manticore missles and Deathstrikes, with plenty of Hydra batterys to swat away pesky aircraft, with auto cannons/Heavy bolters to shoo away anyone stupid enough to float little boats twards the gigantic ship.
There isa video game known as Naval Ops with giant boss characters known as "Super Ships" These would defniatly be a good canidate for a Imperial Naval Craft (size, armor and firepower all being immense)

Honestly i would love to see a D-Day style battle with Gorgons and Chimeras (and perhaps specially modified Leman Russes that can swim abiet slowly) charging a fortified beach head with a special unit (a gigantic battleship) raining a hail of shells (big pie plates galore!!!) onto the defenders.

It is my greatest hope that Space Marines will invade Naboo and pacify Otoh Gunga.