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Hi guys, I have got my first ever battlewagon and am just about to start sticking it together.

Problem is I have a history of sticking my vehicles together and then realising after a few games I want to equip them differently.

My plan it to have a basic open topped one, with 2 big shootas and then a magnetised deff rolla option. Also thinking about a magnetised arid case with a killkannon, though I suspect I will rarely use it like that.

My army is mainly trucks and nobs with foot slogging boys support. I play mainly v dark elder or chaos marines with plenty of anti tank so not expecting it to last too long, hence not wanting to sink too many points into it.

If anyone has any thoughts of what to stick in it that would be useful too. I'm thing 15 burnas or a load of meganobz ATM

Thanks

Mine are all set up differently, but my troop taxi has 2 big shootas on the side mounts, a kannon turret on the top of the cab and a deffrolla. The turret just sits in it's slot, not glued, so it can be removed.

Nice thing about the Kannon is that it can be used as a defensive weapon on blast mode, and as an antitank weapon otherwise.

If it's a Wagon rush list:
Battlewagon: Red Paint Job, Big Shoota, Armour Plates, Grot Riggers, Deffrolla - 135 points

AresX8 wrote:Battlewagon: Red Paint Job, Big Shoota, Armour Plates, Grot Riggers, Deffrolla - 135 points

I like the Boarding Plank, too. If I don't take out a Dreadnaught with the Deffrolla, I can still hit it with my Power Klaw from inside the Battlewagon without the Dread getting to hit back. Also, Grot Riggers are not need if a Big Mek is riding along inside.

ill give you a summary of all the things you can use

deffrolla - mandatory on a transport wagon, avoid on a shooty one

armor plates - definetly put them on a transport, you DONT want to get stunned with 10 nos inside

boarding plank - no, its useless. just get out, there really wont be any instances when you actually get to use the plank

- red paint - if you got the points, yes. its great being oine inch closer to the enemy sometimes

- grot riggers. no. useless really, they wont ever change the course of a battle.

- ard case - NO! for fething 15 point you dont want to negate the biggest advantage of your transport. even a shooty wagon doesnt want this, its too expensive.

big shootas - take at least one, so a weapon destroyed doesnt turn into an immobilized.

kannon - yep, the s4 template is a def weapon, so take a kannon and a big shoota.

grabbin' claw - maybe, if your enemy uses plenty of fast vehicles and if you have the points. But usually no.

killkannon - no personal experience, but people say its bad. only 24'' range and only s7, so it doesnt even instakill. and bs 2. for the 70p it costs, its bad.

MrMerlin wrote:

- grot riggers. no. useless really, they wont ever change the course of a battle.

You've never had your Battlewagon immobilised first turn have you? It's a 5 point upgrade. You may not need it but it'd be better to have it and not need rather than have a 150 point transport sitting right outside your deployment zone not-deffrolling stuff.

I agree with the rest though.

beigeknight wrote:

MrMerlin wrote:

- grot riggers. no. useless really, they wont ever change the course of a battle.

You've never had your Battlewagon immobilised first turn have you? It's a 5 point upgrade. You may not need it but it'd be better to have it and not need rather than have a 150 point transport sitting right outside your deployment zone not-deffrolling stuff.

I agree with the rest though.

forgot to mention:

ALWAYS keep a kff mek in your wagong, with one or two grot oilers. thats a 4+ for your wagong and all the stuff around it (5+ for infantry) and he can repair your stuff

Note for the above:

'Killkannons don't even instakill'

They do. They instakill T3. They don't instakill T 4, but not everyone is T4

It's one of the very very few AP 3 pieplates the orks have too. I've had it be a gamechanger sometimes, but yes, it IS overcosted.

Ard Case on a shooty wagon is pricy too, but it can make the difference between an immobile wagon and a dead one. MY SHootywagons tend to be Ard' cased if they aren't going to be toting troops.

sorry, I wanted to add ".....doesnt instakill marines and other orks"

It's pretty easy to build the 'open roof' framework so that it's removeable/swappable, giving you future options both for various weapon mountings and replacing with a Ard Case should you want to. (It also makes painting the model easier.)

MrMerlin wrote:

beigeknight wrote:

MrMerlin wrote:

- grot riggers. no. useless really, they wont ever change the course of a battle.

You've never had your Battlewagon immobilised first turn have you? It's a 5 point upgrade. You may not need it but it'd be better to have it and not need rather than have a 150 point transport sitting right outside your deployment zone not-deffrolling stuff.

I agree with the rest though.

forgot to mention:

ALWAYS keep a kff mek in your wagong, with one or two grot oilers. thats a 4+ for your wagong and all the stuff around it (5+ for infantry) and he can repair your stuff

But the KFF mek must disembark to repair any battlewagon other than his own, and can't re-embark on the same turn, leaving him out in the open. The grot riggers also cost five points and allow one reroll, a grot rigger allows a "reroll" every turn. Due to the amount of damage a deff rolla can cause, even in late game, no wagon with a rolla should ever go without riggers.

As for building the wagon: The model is purely modular. Don't glue anything on the wagon, and put some weights under the turrent-shootas and the grabbin klaw. That way you can rebuild the wagon every game, anyway you need it.

thx guys

I'd agree with the grot riggers, in that I find it hard to not include them. They allow a repair roll, and allow my Mek to instead repair a broken weapon (if needed). Plus, no "stunned on a roll of a 1" for them.

And if I only have an immobilized result, I've got a 75% chance of repairing it with both rolls.

You can only re-roll a dice once though so wouldn't be able to use both re-rolls

The Big Mek's repair roll isn't a reroll (though using an oiler to retry his repair is.

Grot riggers from a vehicle is a seperate roll.

true true

I used to think grot riggers were good, until i got a lot of playtesting with them.

With open topped and all the meltas your more likely to get a destroyed result and all this repairing is in your shooting phase....why not just get out and walk/run, as long as its not in the very first player turn.

In my experiance whenever iv needed my grot riggers and mek the most they have wiffed the dice rolls. Also take into account the enemy can get some hits on your side armour when your sitting still. Deffrollas are nice but you have more of them.

I kit my wagons out with deffrolla, BS and RPJ = 120 and i roll with 4 of them. Also i think its better to have only 1 big shoota, that halves the chance you will get an immobilized result and a second one would not be as cost effective.

gl and happy rollin

Klawjaw wrote:I used to think grot riggers were good, until i got a lot of playtesting with them.

With open topped and all the meltas your more likely to get a destroyed result and all this repairing is in your shooting phase....why not just get out and walk/run, as long as its not in the very first player turn.

In my experiance whenever iv needed my grot riggers and mek the most they have wiffed the dice rolls. Also take into account the enemy can get some hits on your side armour when your sitting still. Deffrollas are nice but you have more of them.

I kit my wagons out with deffrolla, BS and RPJ = 120 and i roll with 4 of them. Also i think its better to have only 1 big shoota, that halves the chance you will get an immobilized result and a second one would not be as cost effective.

gl and happy rollin

I have found my grot riggers usually work. Its still a 4+ to fix and it costs less than a single boy. It keeps the wagon a threat. If it were immobilized with no riggers then my opponents would probably just start ignoring it (as a single Big shoota isnt that bad) and start focusing more fire on my nobs or burna wagon or any other thing I dont want them shooting at. In my list I wouldnt want to get out and just walk/run due to the fact that nobz on foot get hit my all the Str8 weaponry my opponents have and burnas, lets face it, are just 100x better in wagons.

I run my wagons with a rolla, BS x1, xtra armor, and riggers. Rollas are mandatory for a transport wagon. The xtra armor ensures your wagons are always able to move, being unable to shoot isnt much a big deal most of the time. The riggers give you the ability to keep moving even after you are immobilized, it wont always pay off but its useful. Klawjaw is spot on with the argument for a single Big shoota.

I have mine modular, but for the most part I always include the deff rolla(best 20pts in the game), RPJ, and riggers. If I have the points I will throw in rokkit launchers or big shootas, but I never take a 'ard case.

Even if you need the roof for modeling purposes(ie. you just want to have that many turrets), just don't count it as a 'ard case. It is useless and actually hurts the wagon beyond repair. Fire points and access points on an ork vehicle? No thank you!

-cgmckenzie

Yes i think its about preference, i put my nastier units in the middle of the battlewagon castle, getting a pen against armour 14 with 4+ is good enough to get it to the front lines.

Thing i forgot to mention - if your using deffrollas solely against vehicles then a boarding plank *might* be more effective.

Dont get me wrong, iv gibbed a grey knight squad before with the rolla but boarding planks are only 5 points, and if you have ghazgul or a warboss in your wagon thats more S10 attacks then the rolla, best used against dreadnaughts. Good tactic because the other deffrollas are enough for a landraider or two, and as a hidden bonus the enemy doesent think its as big as a threat.

It really is best to keep it modular if you can, with weights or magnets.

I actually have 2 different Wagon loadouts that I might as well share, to give you more ideas on what you can do with one than the standard.

First off, I run both mine with 'Ard Cases, simply because it adds more survivability to the wagon, turning those 4's into 3's and those 5's into 4's, and keeping Glancing hits from being at all dangerous (oh, for the days when the KFF's Obscuraction meant only Glancing hits!). Your Wagons are the 'ardest part of your army, and 'ard Case only makes them 'arder.

Anyways, I run a shooty wagon and a krumpy wagon. My shooty wagon has a Killkannon, Kannon and 4x Rokkits, with 'ard Case, Reinforced Ram, Riggers and Extra Armour. Now in 5th edition, the Kilkannon is something of a rotten choice, since it's basically an either/or weapon, being Ordinance, but if the MT rumors of 6th are true, this wagon'll be devestating. The Rokkits and Kannon are for when I'm sitting still shooting at something relatively close- 5 Str8 Ap3 shots isn't anything to sneer at, even at BS2- when I move, I just move 6" and use the Killkannon- it's especially fun against Marines, since it's killing on 2s. I run this wagon with my KFF Mek and a little group of Meks and Burnas, using the firing ports for extra KMB shots out the sides, and pretty much guaranteeing that any Damaged result will be repaired by the next turn, with 4 Meks and the Grots. As I've said, it's simply dangerous and hard to kill right now, but if 6th has the Multi-Targetting rule, it'll be devestating.

My other Wagon is for CC- and by that I mean the Wagon itself is as active a participant as the riders. I usually run this one with Deffrolla, 'ard Case, Boardin' Plank, Grabbin' Klaw, Wrekkin' Ball, 'eavy Armour, Red Paint and Grot Riggers, along with a Big Shoota for Weapon Destroyed results, and it's the ride of my Meganobz or Nobz. I run this one right up and get into the thick of things, being able to do d6 Str10 hits with the Rolla, an extra 3-4 Str 9 or 10 hits with the Plank, and a Str9 hit with the Wrekkin' Ball in assault- it will kill anything it runs into. The firing ports are handy for Kombi-Skorchas or just Shootas. I don't bother with getting out to assault unless I can wrap it so it's tactically sound- instead I use it more like a really, really dangerous Rhino- if it gets popped, well, then you'll have to deal with the passengers. If not, (and the 'ard case helps with this- remember, it's still AV14 on the front, and 12 on the side) then I'll get to dictate the terms of our engagement- and if I can Grab a vehicle that doesn't get destroyed by all the other hits (maybe one that was just a little too close to the action) I can then auto-hit when I assault, something to keep in mind even with an open-topped Wagon.

I find that both planks and klaws are all but mandatory on rolla wagons in todays environment. You can quite often ram one vehicle and end up close enough to another to use the plank, without having to get out; and lets face it, sometimes getting out is suicide, so for just a few points, the plank is a good invenstment. Also, if a skimmer dodges the ram, you can still swing with a PK from the plank.

The same is true of the klaw. With skimmers dodging the rolla on a 3+, the ability to hold them still for turn for a nominal amount of points seems like a no-brainer, especially with the ever increasing number of skimmers appearing in codexes and on tables.