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Thought of a good question...
Tyranids eat what they kill to better serve themselves and be better at killing
What happens when they fight Necrons?
Do Necrons finally have epic win on something? Or does nothing change?
One other thing, Tyranids and Kroot kinda (really kinda) evolve that same way, yes?
Discuss

Tyranids don't tend to do well when they fight against Necrons.

If i rememeber correctly Necrons hate Tyranids with a passion ( i may be wrong)

Also with the whole all metal non-organic thing necrons have, Tyranids would have a problem fighting them but then again they often resort to eating the bodies of their dead when other organic matter is not present, which can be a common occourance if a opponent to the swarm can hold them back and take very very few losses without outside biological matter such as local flora and fauna, and recycling the organic matter into the system to make replacement tyranids. im not sure if there is a loss in matter (definetly no gain) but either way, i cannot imagine Tyranids constantly recycling the same organic matter again and again before problems arise, but that has not happened (at least not that im aware of) so we would not know;.


But a full bore Necrons vs Tyranids battle would be interesting to see none the less.

as for the kroot. I have not looked into them as much but my guess about the control of genetics in their species is controled differently to an extent, but with select similar aspects.

Your basic Necron Warrior's standard weapon robs the Tyranids of a corpse that can be converted into new biomass. Add in their inability to be consumed (Due to being living metal, Phase Out, and the ability to self-destruct, disintegrating the Necron), the Necrons don't make a great enemy for Tyranids.

That is probably the reason Tyranids usually avoid Tomb Worlds. Because they don't really have much to gain from invading it.

Void__Dragon wrote:Your basic Necron Warrior's standard weapon robs the Tyranids of a corpse that can be converted into new biomass. Add in their inability to be consumed (Due to being living metal, Phase Out, and the ability to self-destruct, disintegrating the Necron), the Necrons don't make a great enemy for Tyranids.

That is probably the reason Tyranids usually avoid Tomb Worlds. Because they don't really have much to gain from invading it.

But that said, if a Tyranid Hive Fleet really has to invade a Necron tomb word then they're more than capable of pulling it off. Leviathan scoured one of the Eastern Fringe's largest, most well defended Forge Worlds (complete with Titan Legions) in mere days.

It wouldn't be a great battle for the Tyranids... but I'm sure that if their galactic war tilted and the majority of their encountered foes were Necrons then they'd go through some rather major changes and start fielding swarms far more suited to combatting the Necrons (toning down the poisons, ramping up the acids and psychics, developing beatts with layers of ablative armour to stall Necron Gauss tech until the beasts can close and pull the Necrons apart etc).

Xyptc wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Your basic Necron Warrior's standard weapon robs the Tyranids of a corpse that can be converted into new biomass. Add in their inability to be consumed (Due to being living metal, Phase Out, and the ability to self-destruct, disintegrating the Necron), the Necrons don't make a great enemy for Tyranids.

That is probably the reason Tyranids usually avoid Tomb Worlds. Because they don't really have much to gain from invading it.

But that said, if a Tyranid Hive Fleet really has to invade a Necron tomb word then they're more than capable of pulling it off. Leviathan scoured one of the Eastern Fringe's largest, most well defended Forge Worlds (complete with Titan Legions) in mere days.

It wouldn't be a great battle for the Tyranids... but I'm sure that if their galactic war tilted and the majority of their encountered foes were Necrons then they'd go through some rather major changes and start fielding swarms far more suited to combatting the Necrons (toning down the poisons, ramping up the acids and psychics, developing beatts with layers of ablative armour to stall Necron Gauss tech until the beasts can close and pull the Necrons apart etc).

Sounds about right...

Xyptc wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Your basic Necron Warrior's standard weapon robs the Tyranids of a corpse that can be converted into new biomass. Add in their inability to be consumed (Due to being living metal, Phase Out, and the ability to self-destruct, disintegrating the Necron), the Necrons don't make a great enemy for Tyranids.

That is probably the reason Tyranids usually avoid Tomb Worlds. Because they don't really have much to gain from invading it.

But that said, if a Tyranid Hive Fleet really has to invade a Necron tomb word then they're more than capable of pulling it off. Leviathan scoured one of the Eastern Fringe's largest, most well defended Forge Worlds (complete with Titan Legions) in mere days.

It wouldn't be a great battle for the Tyranids... but I'm sure that if their galactic war tilted and the majority of their encountered foes were Necrons then they'd go through some rather major changes and start fielding swarms far more suited to combatting the Necrons (toning down the poisons, ramping up the acids and psychics, developing beatts with layers of ablative armour to stall Necron Gauss tech until the beasts can close and pull the Necrons apart etc).

Im sure they could but It would be a waste of resources and time. What is the point of taking heavy losses to gain nothing? Especially with the newcrons and their filthy lightning weapons. Have you seen what that stuff does to swam army's?! The amount of damage those weapons pump out against nids, orks and IG is absolutely insane.

Thats not to say that the Tyranids will never defeat a Necron force, but I think Necrons are one of the best equipped armies when it comes to dealing with swarm armies with, especially Tyranids.

It would be an interesting fight to say the least, but I'm going to hand it over to the crons. Like what Thatguy91 said, tesla weapons tear swarms apart. Also Necrons tomb worlds utilize technology that boggle even the most intelligent magosi. I think the nids would be just as confused navagating a tomb world let alone trying to penetrate thier defenses.

Oldcrons were rivals with the Tyranids for the "ultimate threat" to mankind and the Tyranids made effort to avoid them. It certainly hyped up the Necrons as a major threat.

Newcrons can apparently be eaten by Tyranids, one of the Necron Dynasties has been at least. As the Newcrons have been made much more nobler/honorable/misunderstood, the Silent King has also returned to the Galaxy to save it from Tyranids, and this indicates that the Tyranids are probably viewed as the greatest enemy of the Necron race except perhaps the Eldar (who are portrayed as acting very aggressively against the Necrons out of their own hatred). The problem of course for the Newcrons is since they're a series of divided mini-empires fighting amongst themselves, the Tyranids are much of a threat to the Necron race. When the strongest Necron Dynasty probably even couldn't take Ultramar, the Super Hive Fleet on its way to the Galaxy is certainly going to pose a problem for them.

Nitpicking yayness.

Harriticus wrote:Oldcrons were rivals with the Tyranids for the "ultimate threat" to mankind and the Tyranids made effort to avoid them. It certainly hyped up the Necrons as a major threat.

While I do miss this, I think having too many "ultimate threats" kind of overdid it. Chaos, Tyranids and Necrons? Bit much.....I'd have preferred they dropped Chaos though <__<

Newcrons can apparently be eaten by Tyranids, one of the Necron Dynasties has been at least.

The Necrons weren't eaten, simply because they can't be. But the worlds they lie on can be, and Tyranid consumption of a world totally wrecks it. More likely it's a case of the world started to suffer under the Tyranid nomming and the buried tombs suffered as a result.

As the Newcrons have been made much more nobler/honorable/misunderstood, the Silent King has also returned to the Galaxy to save it from Tyranids, and this indicates that the Tyranids are probably viewed as the greatest enemy of the Necron race except perhaps the Eldar (who are portrayed as acting very aggressively against the Necrons out of their own hatred).

No, he returned to stop the Tyranids eating the organic bodies he hoped his people would be able to transfer back into. Not to save the galaxy. Tyranids are, I'd say, are probably their major enemy simply because of that fact though.

The problem of course for the Newcrons is since they're a series of divided mini-empires fighting amongst themselves, the Tyranids are much of a threat to the Necron race. When the strongest Necron Dynasty probably even couldn't take Ultramar, the Super Hive Fleet on its way to the Galaxy is certainly going to pose a problem for them.

To be fair, that Super Hive Fleet is going to be a problem for everyone if all the hints prove to come true. The idea that Leviathan is just an advance vanguard is pretty much terrifying for everybody involved.

As the Newcrons have been made much more nobler/honorable/misunderstood, the Silent King has also returned to the Galaxy to save it from Tyranids, and this indicates that the Tyranids are probably viewed as the greatest enemy of the Necron race except perhaps the Eldar (who are portrayed as acting very aggressively against the Necrons out of their own hatred).

No, he returned to stop the Tyranids eating the organic bodies he hoped his people would be able to transfer back into. Not to save the galaxy. Tyranids are, I'd say, are probably their major enemy simply because of that fact though.

This.

The Tyranids couldn't care less about Necrons. There is zero reason to attack them. A 'nids purpose is to consume bio matter and move on. They don't keep conquered territory, just eat and run. Necrons, well, they aren't biological... So any type of confrontation is going to result in a loss for the nids. Even IF the nids destroy the tomb world, the net result in biomass would be a loss.

However, Necrons have to stop the Nids from poaching from their own table so to speak. Necrons need the living races in the hopes of figuring out how to transfer their personas back into living bodies. Ergo, Necron forces will happily go on the offensive against Nids.

The net result is that the Humans, Tau, Eldar and Orks are food for Nids and experiments for the Necrons. Not exactly a good situation to be in.

Necrons since they see tyranids and just fire way killing all of the little monsters

Fluff wise Necrons = :-( 4 BUGZ
since Necrons never really die and can't be comsumed for biomass, while subtracting from the total with their guass weapons, the tyranids would lose just about any extended engagement with the necrons.
Although on the table top I almost always loss to nids.

As per the Kroot-nid evolution, I really don't know much about ether's origins.

In the 'crons codex it says that Tyranid hive fleets avoid tomb worlds instinctually.

cordan123 wrote:In the 'crons codex it says that Tyranid hive fleets avoid tomb worlds instinctually.

Which makes sense, because there's little if anything of value to eat there. Of all the races in WH40k, the Necrons have the best hopes of simply waiting out the Tyranid onslaught (they won't though, because certain Necron factions have designs on the galactic population too).

This doesn't mean that, should the Necrons suddenly pose a massive threat to the Tyranid advance, the Hive Mind won't turn its attention to the Necrons and devise means of destroying them for minimal loss of biomass. One of the Tyranids' greatest strengths is their adaptability, where as the Necrons haven't really adapted or changed anything about themselves for 65 million years*.

*Admittedly, this is because they got it "right" back then, but the Tyranids are totally unlike any other threat in the universe. The Necrons may simply find themselves out-thought and then out-fought. Under those circumstances, they'd probably choose to retreat and hibernate again.

Xyptc wrote:

cordan123 wrote:In the 'crons codex it says that Tyranid hive fleets avoid tomb worlds instinctually.

Which makes sense, because there's little if anything of value to eat there. Of all the races in WH40k, the Necrons have the best hopes of simply waiting out the Tyranid onslaught (they won't though, because certain Necron factions have designs on the galactic population too).

This doesn't mean that, should the Necrons suddenly pose a massive threat to the Tyranid advance, the Hive Mind won't turn its attention to the Necrons and devise means of destroying them for minimal loss of biomass. One of the Tyranids' greatest strengths is their adaptability, where as the Necrons haven't really adapted or changed anything about themselves for 65 million years*.

*Admittedly, this is because they got it "right" back then, but the Tyranids are totally unlike any other threat in the universe. The Necrons may simply find themselves out-thought and then out-fought. Under those circumstances, they'd probably choose to retreat and hibernate again.

This is probably the most logical and accurate description of what it would come down to. Necrons want the galaxy for themselves, and Tyranids will eventually be forced to fight them. In that case, without the group which built all their weapons (I can't remember the name) the Necrons would simply be out adapted by the 'Nids. Hibernation would be the only option.

The Necron codex speaks of a device that completely removes any connection to the Warp it had. This could be why the Tyranids avoid Tomb Worlds like the plague.

A few bits of misinformation in this thread.

Firstly, there was no 'group which built all their weapons' which got destroyed, there was a very powerful and influential faction of crypteks which got destroyed. They lost some creative power there, but there are still plenty of crypteks and we know they are actively developing new tech.

Secondly, they haven't been totally static for 60m years (except for the sleeping bit). As I said, there is plenty of fluff about the crypteks continuing to do research.

As for the Necrons being split, the new codex indicates that while they do fight amongst themselves they still spend the majority of their time focused on other races, and that they are almost always willing to drop personal rivalries and unite to fight other races, and it goes out of its ways to provide examples of such behavior.

Just as a personal opinion, I don't see 'out thought and out fought' happening, which isn't to say the 'crons will win, just that when they lose it will most likely be due to overwhelming odds.

When it comes to 'out thought', this has never been a hallmark of the hive fleets. They adapt, and have occasionally surprised their foes by producing clever creatures capable of tactics, but even then they aren't noted for being super geniuses capable of out thinking the finest minds in the galaxy, which is exactly how the 'crons are described'.

As for 'out fought', again, they are noted for their swarms and their powerful beasts, but not for their top tier power. Which, again, is exactly how the 'crons are described.

They win by overpowering their opponents through superior numbers, and if/when they defeat the Necrons that is how they will do it.

riplikash wrote:
When it comes to 'out thought', this has never been a hallmark of the hive fleets. They adapt, and have occasionally surprised their foes by producing clever creatures capable of tactics, but even then they aren't noted for being super geniuses capable of out thinking the finest minds in the galaxy, which is exactly how the 'crons are described'.

As for 'out fought', again, they are noted for their swarms and their powerful beasts, but not for their top tier power. Which, again, is exactly how the 'crons are described.

They win by overpowering their opponents through superior numbers, and if/when they defeat the Necrons that is how they will do it.

Just some more things to correct. For the first point, there have been numerous occasions where the 'Nids have out thought regular generals. The "finest minds" can't be everywhere, and I don't think every Necron Overlord has the same tactical acumen as Imotekh and Zahndrekh. Regardless, if they do, the 'Nids have the Swarmlord which is described as repeatedly out thinking Marneus Calgar, one of the (Imperium's anyway) finer tactical minds. Given that the Necrons are machines, I think it's less likely the Tyranids would be able to out think them. What I meant by that was indeed the adaption factor of the Hive Fleets, so that's my error. Apologies.

The absolute top-tier Tyranids (bio titans) are described as being absurdly powerful, capable of taking on Titans. Wasn't their a super-Trygon type beast which took down several Titans before finally being blown to bits? Whether these top level bio-titans are on par with the most powerful Necron war machines remains to be seen, since IIRC there's not much on the titan scale which the Necrons have deployed.

That would be how they'd do it precisely. It's why, if it came to all out war, I think the Tyranids would win. If the hints about Leviathan being a vanguard fleet and not the full scale invasion, I don't think even the Necrons could deal with that scale of invasion. It's a case of can the Tyranids wear the Necrons down (since only the high levels are absolutely immortal now. Irreperable front line troops like warriors and immortals have a chance to self destruct or be broken down into energy) faster than the Necrons can do the same. A war of attrition on the most amazing scale.

According to the tyranid codex, hive fleets have actually starved to death rather than attack necrons.

odorofdeath wrote:According to the tyranid codex, hive fleets have actually starved to death rather than attack necrons.

Must have missed that, can you cite a page number?

from what I remember Hive Fleets go out of they're way to avoid Tomb Worlds due to the complete lack of Biomass generally available due to Necrons scouring the worlds of it.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:from what I remember Hive Fleets go out of they're way to avoid Tomb Worlds due to the complete lack of Biomass generally available due to Necrons scouring the worlds of it.

Sort of. A Hive Fleet seeds the worlds ahead of it with vanguard organisms - Lictors, Genestealer Cults, Hormagaunts etc. On a world that is rich in biomass, these organisms prospoer and multiply. When they reach a critical mass, they are able to call the Hive Fleet to that world, and the invasion begins.

The average Necron tomb world is ash and wasteland, with no life at all. These worlds aren't ideal for the Tyranids to multiply on, and so any vanguard organisms that do arrive will either multiply very slowly, or not at all. This means the Hive isn't called to that world, and it instead moves past (instead drawn in other directions, by richer feeding grounds).

Dytalus wrote:Hibernation would be the only option.

I don't even want to think what would happen to the crons if they had to go back into stasis. They barely came out of it now, there is no telling what would happen a second time!

Dytalus wrote:
The absolute top-tier Tyranids (bio titans) are described as being absurdly powerful, capable of taking on Titans. Wasn't their a super-Trygon type beast which took down several Titans before finally being blown to bits? Whether these top level bio-titans are on par with the most powerful Necron war machines remains to be seen, since IIRC there's not much on the titan scale which the Necrons have deployed.

In fall of Damnos, some sort of artillery piece...or something like that, blows an Imperial BATTLESHIP out of space, in a single shot. I think they have some powerful weaponry we haven't really seen yet. Think about the devastation such weapons would deal to a hive fleet deploying to a planet. All the major Hive ships would be blasted out of space....
Then again, I don't believe there is "officially" a Necron titan-class warmachine, But I've seen a concept for one in the galleries (pretty cool looking if you ask me). I'm thinking multiple Death-rays, Particle-whips and all other manners of nastiness.

It reads to me in the Necron Codex that pretty much all overlords are capable of going over thousands/millions of strategies a second. I think that would give them an Advantage over Calgar in tactical flexibility

iGuy91 wrote:In fall of Damnos, some sort of artillery piece...or something like that, blows an Imperial BATTLESHIP out of space, in a single shot. I think they have some powerful weaponry we haven't really seen yet. Think about the devastation such weapons would deal to a hive fleet deploying to a planet. All the major Hive ships would be blasted out of space....

It'll have its work cut out for it. Destroying the actual hive fleet isn't easy - the main problem comes from when a hive ship is destroyed, other hive ships in the area calve, replacing not only the destroyed hive ship, but creating more. This is a rapid process as well. Not to mention, a hive fleet isn't like seeing a dozen cruisers and battleships in orbit. You'll see thousands of bio-ships streaming towards the planet. While it means hitting ships is easy for such a cannon, it wouldn't cause nearly as much damage as taking down one Imperial battleship does, and hitting the important hive ships becomes difficult when you've got dozens of chaff ships in the way, obscuring line of sight.

Why does 'Nids & Necrons' sound like a dish...or a children's restaurant/play area?

"Hey, kids: wanna go to Nids N' Necrons?!"
"Yayyyy!"

"...none of them survived."

Ronin-Sage wrote:Why does 'Nids & Necrons' sound like a dish...or a children's restaurant/play area?

"Hey, kids: wanna go to Nids N' Necrons?!"
"Yayyyy!"

"...none of them survived."

The silent king wants the other races to weaken the tyranids, so the neurons can exterminate them.