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So, it's a well known fact that the codex chapter book suffers a bit in terms of it's troop selections, mainly that there are only two choices and those choices are pretty limited in what they can do, (namely, the fact that tac marines can only take special weapons in units of 10.)

That being said, I want to stray away from my usual units and start using more scout based armies, but I'm curious to know what directions other people take with them- questions such as:

What's the optimal unit size?
Heavy bolter or Missile launcher w/ BS 3
Camo cloaks a must?
Does anyone actually use a land speeder storm?
How useful are scout bikes, especially with a locator beacon?

Any feedback would be appreciated. I've run a couple of scout lists, but that's mainly because I wanted to have cheap 5 man units to let the bulk of my army be elsewhere.

Thanks!

bforber wrote:So, it's a well known fact that the codex chapter book suffers a bit in terms of it's troop selections, mainly that there are only two choices and those choices are pretty limited in what they can do, (namely, the fact that tac marines can only take special weapons in units of 10.)

That being said, I want to stray away from my usual units and start using more scout based armies, but I'm curious to know what directions other people take with them- questions such as:

What's the optimal unit size?

10, unless you're putting them in a Storm. With the lower save, you need the bodies, and you can always combat squad them if needed.

Heavy bolter or Missile launcher w/ BS 3

Depends on what the rest of the squad is armed with. I'd run a heavy bolter with bolters and a missile launcher with sniper rifles. If you're centering an army around Scouts, definitely take Telion and use him in a 10-man sniper squad with a missile launcher, as he can give the ML BS 6.

Camo cloaks a must?

Depends on the squad's role. Bolter or sniper objective campers, definitely. Assault-oriented Scouts, possibly. Outflankers or Storm Suicide Squads, definitely not. Remember that Telion has stealth, so you don't need to buy cloaks for his squad.

Does anyone actually use a land speeder storm?

Yes, they can be very effective at messing with your opponent's head during deployment. Run a 5-man squad with combi-melta and fist in a LSS with multi-melta and you can try to pop or assault an important, vulnerable target in the first turn. The Cerberus launchers make it easier to break a squad of Devastators or somesuch on the charge. Alternatively, outflank it for a unit that can throw a wrench in the works for your opponent.

How useful are scout bikes, especially with a locator beacon?

That greatly depends on what your list has that can take advantage of a locator beacon. If you can manage it, getting a squad of Vanguard Vets to drop in without scatter is one of the niftiest things they can do, and is really the only safe way to try for Heroic Intervention in C:SM. That's a lot of stretching to make an overpriced unit like jump pack Vanguards work though. Personally, in a Scout-themed army, I'd take them simply because they're Scouts that take up a different FOC than regular Scouts. I'd stay away from Astartes grenade launchers, they aren't twin-linked and BS3 ain't that reliable.

I made a scout list and threw Sicarius to infiltrate a tac squad with the scout squads, but haven't used that list in a game yet.

As said above, best to take full squads and take Tellion with one.

First all, a scout army is a themed army. Themed armies are semi-competitive at best.
This is important, as you should expect your scout army to win all the time. Its also important to note that theme armies can be fun.

bforber wrote:What's the optimal unit size?

10 man combat squadded. So your goal is to take advantage of the fact that scouts are cheap, and you can bring a ton of them. I advise bringing 60 scouts. Give half of them sniper rifles for long range fire, and ML's to crack that armor. Then give your other 5 assault weapons. They are your cheap assault force to go head into hordes. Take Shrike as your leader so all your scouts can take fleet, or take Kahn so you can outflank them all.

bforber wrote:Does anyone actually use a land speeder storm?

This is great for grabbing objectives mid-late game, depending on when it comes in. IIRC, they have scout, which means they can also outflank, another strong advantage as a MM at 24" is better than a LC vs AV 12 and below.

bforber wrote:How useful are scout bikes, especially with a locator beacon?

Meh...normally I don't like them compared to regular bikes.
However, if your going with the scout theme, and you need more butt's on the field, they are a good way to add another 10-30 models on the table. Heck, if you get 1st turn, you can assault with them, and STR 6 krak gernades can damage AV 11 rear armor, so it can be a useful trick (and works better with a melta-bombs)

Again, overall theme lists are fluffy and not overly powerful, but it can be a ton of fun to play.

If I were to make a scout army, I'd take Shrike. Fits the fluff. Then I'd fill the troop section with assault and shotgun scouts.

10 with snipers and tellion
5 with shot gun and storm
5 with shot gun and storm
10 with blades nd pistols
10 with blades and pistols
5 bikers, cluster mines, 1 grenade launcher
Shrike

I had nice success in a local league with a vanilla marine army which only had scouts for troops. It was not strictly scout themed, I had Master of the Forge and 6 dreads and 3 speeders. 3 dreads were rifleman, 3 were podded.

I had 10 snipers with cloaks, 5 melee scouts (sgt pf), and a mixed 10 scout with 4 bolters, hb and 4 cc & sgt. Fist-squad rode in a storm, and outflanked always. Got my points back with it every time.

Snipers always survived when deployed in cover, but were mostly disappointing, even sniper sgt mostly failed to hit. Highlight was rending a Chimera from front, and they also got some shots through razorback sides.

I also had 6 scout bikers with 2 astartes lounchers. These also mostly outlflanked, and were satisfactory. Even though I had pods and speeders to deep strike, I never missed locator beacon, but I did miss the pf for the sarge. With 6 scouts they failed in melee almost always, but mostly got their points back by shooting and tarpitting for a turn.

Mixed scouts were ok, combat squaded mostly, bolters and hb had some hits. I tried to max move through cover -usage by running this squad to objectives through ruins, which kept it relatively safe.

As scouts posed next to no threat compared to my dreads, they often survived very nicely even in objective based scenarios.

Generally when I play SM I play with a Scout core

8x Snipers

5x Bolters, Hvy Bolter; combat squad
5x Shotguns, Sgt w/PF

10xMelee, combat squad, Sgt w/PF

The snipers are an oddball number at the moment simply due to lack of models, however I've found at that size they manage to squeeze into some tight cover rather well. I don't typically bother with the camo cloaks since they tend to sit back and intercept assault groups and take pot shots at transports (they managed to pop a Falcon once, but not something I count on)

The Bolter squad and the Shotgun squad I try to infiltrait where possible and if I can't, I outflank them to grab objectives

The Melee combat squads I usually have escorting any transports or footed Tacticals for a portable coversave/counter charge/mop-up unit so that the Tacticals can weed out the next target and that the transports are safe from assault.

I like the Storm as a transport for my melee guys, since it holds the possibility of pulling them out of hostile territory once they've hit and survived thier target. When I do use them, I tend to make sure I have two squads of five with the PF's though. I especially love keeping the Storm equipped with the flamer Tends to even the odds if you catch my meaning.

On paper (I haven't tried it yet) the Scout bikes would be a large and fairly cheap force multiplier by virtue of the GL's they can pack. Grab six of them (in two units) and give them all the GL's and frag the crap outta any mob or horde that's unlucky enough to be in range, or hit up some MC's with the krak rounds. Keep in mind both modes are rapid fire....

I guess when it boils down to it, the major appeal is that these guys are flexible enough in how they deploy that makes using/facing them sporadic and fun. Granted you better have some serious firepower/support backing them up because like other foot soldiers these guy don't take what they can dish out!

Shrike + vvets or th/ss termies. infiltrate them and they have fleet.

5 Sniper scouts w/HB + camo cloaks- anti infantry duty // camp home objective

5 bolter scouts w/ML inc Tellion
5 bolter scouts w/ML

5 scouts CCW+pistol, sgt w/ PF
5 scouts CCW+pistol, sgt w/ PF
5 scouts CCW+pistol, sgt w/ PF
Storm
Storm
Storm

--
Scout squads in storms move up with the scout move. On your turn they move up, dudes get out 2" and then fleet. You should be well within charge range.

I have been thinking on a scout army for some time but it would have all snipers and 3 thunder fire cannons. try it out that should be different.

So the issue with scout armies, as other people pointed out, is that you are removing a lot of choices from the book in the pursuit of theme.

A captain with honor guard is pretty much all the non-4+ armor your going to get--may as well take him. A chaplain is also not out of place keeping the faith for the new recruits.

After that, I would recommend 4 squads of 10, and 2 squads of 5. The 2 squads of 5 are for the scout storms. Then add a maxed unit of scout bikers, and your pretty much done.

As for comp, well since its themed I would go 1 sniper unit with telion, the 2 storm units would be shotguns, and then 2-3 bolter and 1-2 bolt pistols squads. The chaplain would go with either the honor guard or the bolt pistol squad--maybe the bike squad.

Now, if you wanted to make the list stronger, everyone would be snipers with a few bolt pistol squads mixed in for combat, with shotgun equiped storms. You would also only take the missile launcher, and put it in every squad. Finally, as some others have stated, Shrike is strong for scouts with fleet, but really all the named HQs are handy.