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Hello all,

Well, I used the search thing and only found a thread from 2010 that had been locked - which should probably be a hint, but never mind! I've been making up a new Dark Angels successor chapter (because the guilt-ridden, religious zealots of the 1st legion have always been my favourites) and in light of all the new ridiculously powerful chapters that are flooding out of new codexes, I thought: "What should the new Dark Angels be like?" (IF they ever appear, that is.) This is a bit of therapy for me since I've been thinking about it obsessively and need to get it out of my system - I've checked the really annoying topics that should be banished to the warp and this doesn't appear to be there, but if the mods feel the need to delete my thoughts then I won't tke it too personally!

Also, I might do a custom rule-set which people can agree with if they think that it's not too excessive, so I'd appreciate comments...

Now, onto the rant/speculation/wish list...

The Spirit of the Chapter
The Dark Angels and their successors are the 1st Legion, and whilst there is the 'war in heaven' story in the background of all Space Marine legions, the Dark Angels seem to be the one where this story really comes to the fore. So here are some thing to note about the chapter/legion...
- Their raison d'etre is the search for the fallen and their mission to make all of their fallen brethren repent; to 'purge' them of their sin. They are zealous to the point where they will abandon major Imperial campaigns to continue this mission. They are also so ashamed by their secret that they will work alone wherever possible, and making other Imperial forces 'disappear' if the Dark Angels get the impression that their secret has even the faintest chance of getting out.
- The names of their many of their special characters (at least Azrael, Bellial, Sammael) are the names of angels (Azrael and Sammael are both Angels of Death, and possibly Archangels depending on the source). 'Ezekiel' is also biblical in origin, and names such as Asmodai might well be also (but I don't know that for certain). Add to this the robes and we get the impression that faith and prayer are a bigger part of 1st legion life than in other Marine chapters - many times Dark Angels would be deployed without knowing precisely why so it seems to make sense that the 1st Legion would cultivate an immense ammount of faith in the recruits so that the orders of the Inner Circle are obeyed without question and without any desire to question.
- Lion El'Johnson was a strategic genius: He spent extensive periods of time planning every detail of his battles. The impression received is that Dark Angels forces are extensively briefed before they deploy, and that their plans build in huge amounts of contingencies - put simply, they have a plan and they (stubbornly) stick to it.
- Dark Angels do not seem to express much emotion, and much fluff indicates that they fight with an ice-cold mentality over the brash ferocity of certain other chapters (there is obviously a major personality-clash with Leman Russ and his Space Wolves).

Dark Angels Quirks in Previous Codexes/On The Table
- The Inner Circle
- Watchers in the Dark
- The Deathwing
- The Ravenwing
- The last Imperial jet-bike
- Robes
- Interrogator-Chaplains
- Their hostility to allies in general, and their lack of willingness to work with any Xenos.

New Ideas?
In line with the somewhat radical overhauls going on elsewhere, and in light of the spirit of the chapter (though that's my interpretation), here are some musings which I would like to share (comments/rants/torrents of invective welcomed!). I've tried to keep it faithful (ha ha!) to what I think the Dark Angels are but not make them ridiculously powerful - I don't want to 'turbo-charge' any particular units. Any suggestions on proposed points for any new rules would be welcomed...

The Hunt for the Fallen and the Inner Circle
If there's anything that drives Dark Angels, this is it. Dark Angels should be primarily concerned with capturing the fallen - since every fallen angel will be in a unique situation and therefore require capture in a unique way, the Dark Angels force composition should be extremely flexible. Given the Inner Circle, it might make sense to have the Dark Angels force composition largely dictated by the commander. The idea is that the Dark Angels are a codex chapter on paper, but in practice follow the strategic teachings of their own Primarch (no doubt they would study Guilliman's tactics, just as they would, being Dark Angels, devote intense study to every master of strategy) and therefore do their own thing - the Chapter Masters would therefore know what their commanders strengths were and therefore who would be best placed for a particular engagement. So one aspect which could be developed is the idea that that the Dark Angels commanders might pick what squads they want for a mission from the (available) companies, and then form a unique force which exemplifies the strategic preferences of the commander. For example:
- If the Dark Angels commander is in Terminator Armour, then they may replace any of their troop-slots with Deathwing squads (there must be minimum of 2 Deathwing squads).
- If the Dark Angels commander is on a bike, in a land-speeder, or on a jet-bike then they may replace any of the troop-slots with Ravenwing squads (there must be minimum of 2 Ravenwing squads).
- If the Dark Angels commander has a jump-pack then they may replace any of the troop-slots with assault-squads (there must be minimum of 2 assault squads).
- If the Dark Angels commander is in power armour then the may replace any of his troop-slots with Devastator squads AND may replace any of the elite, fast attack and/or heavy support slots with tactical squads (there must be minimum of 2 tactical/devastator squads).

Again, the idea is to promote strategic flexibility.


Interrogator-Chaplains
At present the only thing which seems to separate Interrogator-Chaplains from normal Chaplains is the name - there doesn't really seem to be that much which is special about them. But perhaps there should be - after all, if you are a fallen angel then you do not want to get captured by one of these guys. Could these be the one unit that would actually cause fear in Chaos Space Marines? And would Cypher be immune to such effects? (Obviously, I think yes on both counts.)

Also, would Interrogator-Chaplains be able to 'capture' an enemy character if they or their retinue (see a suggestion below) take the enemy character down in close combat? I'm guessing Interrogator-Chaplains could well be charged with extracting useful information from captured commanders as well as repentance from the fallen. It would be relatively easy to build in a rule about extra victory-points here per enemy character captured. (Needless to say, this certainly would not work on Tyranids! Perhaps there are other exceptions as well - Cypher would no doubt be 'unbreakable' so this would simply not apply to him.)


Librarians
Given their secrecy, stubbornness, and xenophobia, it is pretty clear that the Dark Angels do not have 'help' in their vocabulary. So how would they deal with demonic threats (I'm assuming that at least some of the fallen must have gone REALLY bad)? It seems pretty unlikely that they would ask the Grey Knights for help. Perhaps Dark Angels could deal with demonic threats by just dosing up on heavy guns and blasting away, but there would undoubtedly be situations where heavy fire power might not suffice (or simply could not be positioned given the environment) and it seems like a silly idea to simply hurl wave after wave of Deathwing into the fray without some sort of specialised tactic used to deal with the situation. So how about making Librarians step up to the mark? Given the angelic/biblical names of the Dark Angels, and their faith, what about something which allowed Librarians the power to smite anything they deemed unholy?

What I have in mind is something like a psychic attack on a model in bases to base contact with the Librarian. The attack would initially be the strength of the Librarian and would be used exactly like a standard close combat attack (i.e. uses the Librarian's WS), but would add one to the strength for every person in the Librarian's unit which the player nominates as 'praying' - and if a model is nominated as praying then it cannot attack or defend (it's WS is temporarily reduced to 0 for the turn); when a Dark Angel is praying and adding his strength to the Librarians then they are taking a leap of faith that their armour will protect them, because it's going to be all that's standing between them and getting hacked to pieces by whatever the enemy has to be lurking. Not every one of the Librarian's unit would have to pray - perhaps in a sufficiently large unit approximately half the squad, say, six marines, could pray, whilst the others used their weapon skill to try and keep attacks off their praying comrades. The power of the Librarian's attack could then be regulated by the size of their retinue/the unit which they have attached themselves to - the higher rank the Librarian, the more troops that can accompany him perhaps?


Retinues
Since the Deathwing contains the veterans of the Chapter, there's no real space for Sternguard or Vanguard veterans. But perhaps the robed Dark Angels could be taken as elite retinues for commanders, interrogator-chaplains and librarians. They would only be available if they accompany a commander, rather than being able to operate as units on their own. Fluff-wise, the function of these veteran units is to go after fallen and capture them if for whatever reason deploying terminators is not the best option.

Further, they must be able to 'keep up' and thus be outfitted with the same type of kit (i.e. terminator armour, bike, jump-pack, etc.) as the character that leads them.


The Deathwing
Well, the Dark Angels seem to like the idea of making teleportation a key feature of how the Deathwing operates - so the first thing is to consider whether all squad-leaders should come with a teleporter-homing beacon as standard to encourage such tactics (obviously raising the cost of Dark Angels units across the board from their counterparts in other Marine chapters).

Some sort of variant of 'Descent of Angels' for terminators would be very nice here also.


The Ravenwing
Jet-bikes as standard? Kind of like a lighter landspeeder squadron? The fluff to justify this would be easy to generate - plans have been found deep within The Rock in an archive and now they can be bought into the Ravenwing as a whole (and conveniently, the successor-chapters). Perhaps have them replace normal bikes in the 1st legion?

Also, raising the cost of every Ravenwing unit, jink grants all Ravenwing units a 6+ invulnerable.


Strategic Brilliance
Following their Primarch, Dark Angels, surely, are masters of strategy. This shouldn't result in a Calgar-style 'God of War' ability (which displays a mastery of tactics - an important difference), but perhaps a rule saying that Dark Angels can choose who deploys first (in ambush style scenarios, perhaps the Dark Angels are entitled to a single bonus movement phase before the opponent begins shooting - as the Dark Angels instantly start putting their contingency plans into effect as the ambush starts).


1st Legion
I don't like the idea of making the Dark Anges too absurdly powerful - I like the idea of them using mostly regular troop types in different interesting ways (I don't think their stats should all dramatically increase, or that their commanders should be nigh-on-unbeatable). But perhaps they should be made more expensive points-wise across the board and given Bolter Drill and the option of taking Plasma cannons free in tactical squads. This might lend to the small, elite feel of a Dark Angels force - and emphasise their status as the 1st Legion - without making them insanely powerful. Or perhaps this is excessive... thoughts?



Thanks in advance!

I'm hoping the rumors are true and that we'll get some new rules soon. You've got a lot of good ideas in here. I like the core of them - Dark Angels should be an elite, expensive army, that is flexible in dealing with any situation they encounter.

As far as creating your own rules - it depends on whom you are playing. If you play someone all the time it makes sense, but it would be really awkward to play someone who brings their own set of rules. Don't think I'd want to do it.

I think that massive all-out attack should be a center point of the Dark Angels. The fluff I've seen all seems to center on them hitting fast, achieving their target, then withdrawing.

I like the idea of teleport homers in multiple support units (Ravenwing, troops, etc.). I also think they should have the Drop Pod assault rules, such as normal Space Marines have. Ravenwing should also have benefits over SM bikes - perhaps they alone should get jink. They may already be costed in such a way to justify this.

Automatic initiative, etc. is probably not fair. I'd see them having a rule like some of the Dark Eldar, allowing them an improved chance of stealing initiative, or of redeploying a limited number of units after your opponent has set up.

I would like all the Wings to be represented in the codex. I was shocked to read there is another Wing for DA. Iron Wing where it's mostly vehicles.

So if we want to represent the brillian tactics of El'Jonson then I woiuld like to see where the IW comes into play into Troops or Elites spots as well being in FA and HS.

I want special knights that resemble the old knights of CAliban!

Taking assault Marines as troops steps on the toes of BA too much. Taking devastators as troops leads to a gunline army that we don't exactly need. I like the idea of generic captains on bikes/in TDA taking their respective units as troops, and think that needs to be preserved.

Giving them all Bolter Drill is ludicrous, they're not super Marines. They're first numerically, they're not explicitly better. Free plasma cannons in 10 man tac squads is a nice touch though, as 5 point plasma guns would be too. Dropping those both by 5 points lends to the 3rd ed image of Dark Angels as plasma-centric, which I like.

The Dark Angels do have veterans, which could be written in as Sternguard/Vanguard veterans. They're in the current codex as "veterans" even if their equipment is more like Vanguard equipment. Making them more TDA centric wouldn't hurt though. Jetbikes as standard for Ravenwing is an idea I can't get behind, but Jetbikes as a special unit could work. 6++ jink save for all Deathwing (speeders too!) to represent their skilled pilots would be cool.

All in all you've got some good ideas, some ideas that need work, and some that really need to be reconsidered.

Well for me the Dark Angels have always had the following traits:

- Arthurian Knights IN SPAAAAACE
- Interesting use of specialized veteran and mounted units
- Lots of secrecy and and obfuscation
- A relatively unique command structure with a lot of nested groups
- Fleet based
- Melting-pot of cultures under the skin
- Ancient technology that has been kept in excellent working order

So what can each of these bring to the table?

Arthurian Knights IN SPAAAAACE

The is largely a stylistic approach. The robes/tabbards, use of sword and lion iconography, the winged helmets and heavy ornamentation on characters. They bring a bit of that monk-ish flare as well but Arthurian Knights were basically the original crusading knights anyways so it makes some sense (sorry BT, we were here first ). But more than that I can see some new units coming from this. The easiest ones to envision are mounted Ravenwing Assault Squads armed with close combat weapons and maybe a lance or two. With the newer fluff the Ravenwing has come about as an elite mounted unit of knights dating back to Caliban and after 4E kind of put them in the shadow of the Deathwing by making them overpriced beacons it would be nice to see the Ravenwing get a shtick that gave them some flexibility. Hell I'd be happy with more assault options on normal Ravenwing (and maybe a unit of Ravenwing Veterans with some extra options). Beyond that turning company veterans into something more knightly (even calling them something more fitting like Knights of the Order would help here) would be an interesting addition.

Ravenwing and Deathwing

A lot more stuff for these guys to make them truly unique. Each one should get its own specializations and reasons for existing and while synergy between them would be nice, making that the entirety of either's existence will kill things and limit lists. Deathwing should get a bump by getting the flexibility of TDA Wolfguard or Grey Knights. I'd also give them a shooting bias and give them some specialty ammo options (not quite Sternguard levels here but the ability to tailor their loadout to their mission would be nice). Ravenwing could stand to become more assault focused along with their current close-ranged firepower.

As for specialty units for either of them. Well Deathwing are screaming out for an honour guard unit. Since they are the best of the best of the chapter I think it would be interesting for all high-level characters to have to option of grabbing a Deathwing Honourguard unit (even if they are wearing PA) since the chapter only fields its top veterans in TDA (this part is important as most HG units are artificer-equipped but this doesn't seem the DA style). Company Masters and other company level guys would have command squads but Grand Masters (save for those attached to the Ravenwing) should be protected in battle by guys equipped with TDA. Part of me wants this to be a big, scary Paladin-style deathstar unit with lots of options and a nice, big pricetag (along with the usual command stuff like champs, standards and Apothecaries). The Deathwing need a big unit with a wow-factor to it since currently they are little bland across the board. It would also be an interesting twist for our PA characters to only have TDA-equipped body guards because thats how the Dark Angels roll.

The Ravenwing need Jetbikes back as a real unit. I'd say make it Elite and give it a fair range of options from assault-heavy to shooty. These guys will be the big centerpiece for Ravenwing forces. I'd also give the Ravenwing their own command squad and give it the option to be equipped the same as the Master of the Ravenwing. So give them options for bikes, jetbikes and even Land Speeders and a good range of equipment options. Ravenwing Land Speeders also need some love again. In 2nd Edition they were unique to the Dark Angels but have since been loaned to every chapter as the standard loadout. So lets give them love again and give the Ravenwing some unique weapon options and some actual special rules or stat improvements to make their Land Speeders actually stand out from normal ones.

Secrecy and Obfuscation

This is mostly a fluff angle to explore. I want to hear more about how the DA use fables to train the new generation and how Dark Angels learn more of the story as they progress. I want to know more about the inner workings of the modern Dark Angels and how secrecy plays a role in their daily lives. Honestly, Dark Angels fluff hasn't really been expanded since 2nd Edition and I would love to see more than the Angels of Death fluff in there. I want to know how they pick and choose new recruits (it would be interesting to see how this differs from Chapters with only one world to draw from). What are their initiation rites? How do they seed new worlds with legends ala The Plains World? How does a new recruit from a different world compare to those from others? What area do they recruit from? Lots of questions and interesting things to explore that have been left for over a decade.

Unique Command Structure

Again this is mainly a fluff thing but it can show up in the list in small ways. First we have the fact that Ravenwing and Deathwing are somewhat apart from the other companies (I would love to see the Armoury return to being the Ironwing as well and get some interesting stuff like Master of the Ironwing). They did something a bit unique in 4th by widening the comapny/Deathwing split with Company Veterans who are guys that would be vets in any other Chapter but still aren't ready for the Deathwing proper. This split has already been underlined by my proposal of making the honour guard units for Inner Circle higher-ups equipped all in TDA.

Beyond that you have things like Chaplains being wholly different than Interrogator-Chaplains (no TDA option for Chaplains, only command squad options; meanwhile Interrogators get TDA options and would have access to TDA honour guard). All Librarians are members of the Deathwing (TDA-options at all levels, maybe access to TDA honour guard) so they will always be outsiders in the Ravenwing (no proper Ravenwing Command Squad options, they are forced to attach to normal squads if they are on a bike). Then you have the differences in Company Masters (PA Command Squads), Grand Masters (TDA Honourguard) and Masters of the first and second companies.

Further their structure can be well represented by playing around with slot allocation in the list. Making normal Deathwing and Ravenwing squads troops without the use of a special character will show a certain break in orthodox deployment and how they like fielding large detachments of the first or second company without either of the Masters of those companies being present (they operate independently quite often which is usually only something you see in normal marine Reserve Companies). Meanwhile shifting things like Scouts in to Fast Attack would show that part of their job has been taken by the Ravenwing and force them in to a more specialist role (potentially becoming a more dedicated Deathwing delivery system since that seems to jibe with Storm of Vengeance fluff quite nicely).

Fleet Based

This is another big fluff point that requires more explanation in the background but it can have a big part in the rules to. Dark Angels should make use of a lot of orbital assets and deep striking. The teleportation thing is nice and I'd love to see it integrated more in to the force. The mentions of a Space Marine gunship would be interesting and it would fit as a close support option for the Dark Angels. So give some deep strike shenanigans to the Deathwing and the orbitally deploying bits of the Ravenwing (Jetbikes). And allow this all to integrate with Drop Pod Assault (i.e. if you have a squad of Jetbikes, two Deathwing squads and three drop podding units then you could deploy three of them on the first turn). Master of the Deathwing and Master of the Ravenwing should augment deep striking further (maybe allow everything to come in on one roll, allow assaults of of Deep Strike, or give bonuses to reinforcement rolls). Orbital bombardment options would also be nice to have (especially as upgrades for the Master of the Ironwing). If it weren't for the Blood Angels already taking the whole Thunderhawk Deployment thing I'd go that angle but direct orbital interface stuff like Drop Pods and teleportation haven't been explored too heavily yet so giving that to Dark Angels to show the fleet bias is a good choice.

Melting Pot

100% fluff-based point here but they are affected heavily by things like the Story of Two-heads Talking which showed a chapter that had something more under its skin than it first appeared. The Rock contains people from countless cultures, often in large numbers, with their own personal belief systems. But they are all Dark Angels in the end. But it is obvious that they don't completely give up their barbarian culture when they come in to the fold. What makes them different than the BA and SW is that they have more than one culture in their ranks and it would be interesting to explore how this plays out. From the cannibals of Kimmeria (oh my god, never realized Azrael was Conan before... awesome ) to the noble warriors of the Plains World and all the others in between it would be interesting to see how all their disparate beliefs and rites are taken in to account by the Dark Angels or how the Dark Angels have influenced them in such a way that they share a lot of cultural markers deep down. Dark Angels have to be amazing social engineers to engineer this (especially across the six chapters in their fold).

Secondarily I'd love to see the idea of the old Legion not being totally gone explored more. The six successor chapters are basically still under the command of the Supreme Grand Master which means that the Dark Angels are actually much closer to being Legion-strength at aproximately 7000 members strong. This makes them a pretty hefty force and it would be interesting to hear more about how the higher echelons of the Imperium view this. They are nervous about the holdings of the Ultramarines and the sway they hold, they can't feel too good about a Legion-strength fleet-based chapter shuffling around the Imperium with a set of unclear goals.

Ancient Technology

This started as the DA being the Terminator chapter, but can also be seen crop up later with their love of plasma weaponry and even the re-emergence of the Jetbike in 4th. More of this would be awesome. Things like plasma blasters in Deathwing Squads (basically a storm plasma gun from 2nd Edition), lots of TDA, more Jetbikes, weird tech for the Master of the Ironwing/Forge. Perhaps even a few weirder and more out-there things like suspensor heavy weapons in Tactical Squads (imagine how that would change their tactics?), some Predator variants equipped with odd plasma-based weaponry. It would even be interesting to see things like nemesis autocannons crop up in a few things to show them using older technology.

This is a section where you can really start going wild with their ideas and start differentiating them from other chapters. They would work well as playing slightly opposite to the Grey Knights in a lot of ways. Where the GK use the latest and greatest the Dark Angels use ancient tech that is rarely seen in the Imperium and dates back to the Great Crusade. The hints GW has been putting out about the Dark Angels having their own forges apart from those of the AdMech and how they make all their own gear, it would be cool if they kept the secrets of how to build some of the really old stuff to themselves.

Not too sure if I like your Drop Pod-centric idea, that and the Chapter Fleet has kinda been appropriated by us Templars. I liked the rest though, especially the special ammo and more special weapons for Terminators (then again, why Terminators don't get Sternguard ammo already is beyond me).

I like some of your ancient weapon ideas. A plasma-based predator would be a nice distinctive toy for them, and more arcane equipment like conversion beamers and plasma blasters would be fun.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Not too sure if I like your Drop Pod-centric idea, that and the Chapter Fleet has kinda been appropriated by us Templars. I liked the rest though, especially the special ammo and more special weapons for Terminators (then again, why Terminators don't get Sternguard ammo already is beyond me).

I can see your point, but Dark Angels were the fleet-based chapter prior to them and considering the fact that a central part of their background is that their home is basically the Death Star I think focusing on their fleet-based nature is somewhat important to their identity. Besides, so long as the Black Templar do their own thing I don't see why they couldn't benefit from similar focus on rapid deployment options. Some overlap is okay (just look at how many assault-heavy marine chapters there are) so long as the overlap doesn't completely envelop all of a given chapters niche. So long as each chapter has a set of abilties to call its own that no other chapter can claim then things are going fine in design town.

So it is fair to say that being fleet based has not been appropriated by the Templars, it is just a shared facet of the both of them. In a similar way to how Ravenguard and Blood Angels both like jump-packs but can be made in completely different ways despite that or how every other marine codex seems to have an assault focus but they all act it out in a different way. But until the day the Templars get their own planet-chunk fortress I still say Dark Angels are the fleet-based chapter (it's not like the Imperial Fists ever got much recognition for it and they have been around as long as the DA have).

I like some of your ancient weapon ideas. A plasma-based predator would be a nice distinctive toy for them, and more arcane equipment like conversion beamers and plasma blasters would be fun.

Indeed, there are loads of old pieces of wargear we could play around with. Displacer Fields, portable short-ranged teleport units (already taken by the GK unfortunately, used to be a favourite piece of gear for my Master of the Deathwing in 2nd Edition), C'tan Phase Swords (it would be cool to see a small handful of these in the Chapter to echo the Lion Sword), rare grenade types, alternate ammo types for missiles (plasma or melta warheads like back in 2nd).

This is also completely ignoring just making new stuff up as well. I'm sure we could brainstorm a few weird pieces of archeotech unique to the Dark Angels. I think it would be a nice way to give our tacticals something interesting since I think none of the current codices have done basic tactical marines in an interesting way. Between the Assault Marine love of the Blood Angels, the veteran Devastators of the Space Wolves I think making Dark Angels tactical squads somewhat unique would help cement their position as the shooty marines. So taking some inspiration from tactical vet squads like the Sternguard is probably a good start for fleshing them out. I'm hoping GW really play around with special ammo types in the upcoming codices, that little touch is a great way to emphasize the flexibility of marines in my mind and I'm glad it is in the rules.

YES YES YES.

On all counts.

Although i would rather see our vets being a special more expensive troop unit with access to a special weapons close combat, relic blades jetpacks basically a do anything unit.

I love the idea of short-range teleporters for the Deathwing - that would certainly make them specialists and open up a whole load of new interesting manoeuvres (especially if other squads were able to take teleporter-homers at reduced cost, or came with them automatically - using Terminators on one side of the battle, then having them rapidly redeploy to a critical objective would be a very nice little trick).

Ancient tech is a nice plan - perhaps Dark Angels could have more of the older pattern Iron and Crusade armour variants among their ranks as a purely stylistic thing?

I guess an interesting move for the non-Deathwing elites could be to have them as specialists who accompany certain other characters and have specialist roles based on the characters they accompany. So...

- Interrogator-Chaplains could have a kind of 'snatch-squad'. It's also easy to see how the Chaplain's abilities could still transfer to nearby units without the Chaplain having to join another unit: a standard-bearer (could the 2nd ed Standard of Retribution or somesuch be brought back?). I'm unsure what kind of specialist weapons these guys could have, but I'm sure there must be plenty of stuff that could be dug out of older editions which might fit a slightly 'angels of retribution/vengance' type feel that these guys would probably want to convey.

- Librarians could be accompanied by... hmm... Difficult to say I guess!

- Commanders could have a normal retinue, though perhaps equipped with Dark Angels-unique ancient weapon variants. In fact, these squads could perhaps be made 'hyper-flexible', so that each member could be outfitted with heavy weapons, special weapons or the close quarters stuff (obviously what they could take would depend whether they were on foot, bikers, or equipped with jump-packs). That might allow a Dark Angels force to have a huge degree of flexibility without having to change much on the force organisation chart.

Also, would there by scope for some kind of specialist scout squad? If Dark Angels would be wanting to use infiltration troops to put teleporter-homers in place, it might make sense to have a scout team which could actually charge a critical objective from their initial cover and engage the defenders in close combat (and survive).

I Honestly can't wait to see what they do for us DA's.

and all Armoured wing with pred's with plasma cannons and the dark and gothic look of the DA's would stir some worry in there enemies.

i think the interrogator chaplin definatly needs a distintive trait or skill other than better stats...... maybe an attack of faith like the chaplin out of the 40K movie. striking on a +4 or something just to make others fear him as they should.

Ravenwing needs skilled rider. Samael is fine
Deathwing needs d6 not 2d6 for scatter and be able to have units 5-10. Beliel needs major overhaul.
The army needs access to all dreadnoughts and land raiders variants.
Bring back Asmodi.
Maybe the Storm Raven?