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Heya
A small question that is slightly unclear in the rulebook.
It states that for a vehicle not to be hidden and obtain a 4+ save than the majority of the unit needs to see over 50% of the hull.

Now we had a situation where two lictors could see a rhino.
One could see like, lets say 10% of the hull.
The other could see the whole thing.

Is the vehicle in obscured?
As one way of looking at it is this.
-One lictor see's 10%, the other see's 100%. Therefore overall the squad see's 55% if the sights are combined. The vehicle is not in cover
while the other way of looking at the rules is...
-One lictor see's 10%, the other see's 100%. Therefore only one model can see over 50% of the tank and as such is not a majority...the tank is obscured.

I think its the second option but which of these is the correct way?
Thankies in advance

You have 4 options in this situation
1. Neither Lictor fire on the tank, cover doesn't matter.
2. Both Lictors fire, since it is granted a cover save by half, it gets a cover save.
3. Lictor A (10% view) fires, Lictor B does not: Tank gets cover
4. Lictor B (100% view) fires, Lictor A does not, no cover save.

Ah nice. Thanks that was quite informative.
Never actually thought about deliberatly not firing weapons to avoid covers.

Or you could house rule it that it gets a save from Lictor B but not Lictor A.

Seems reasonable to all!

It also states that if your not sure whether it is 50% in cover or not, simply modify its save by -1. So, in essence, you could also have given it a 5+ cover save, as per the obscured rule.

mishka_shaw wrote:It states that for a vehicle to be hidden and obtain a 4+ save than the majority of the unit needs to see over 50% of the hull.

You have that the wrong way around.

For the vehicle to receive a cover save, it has to be more than 50% obscured, not more than 50% visible.

Now we had a situation where two lictors could see a rhino.
One could see like, lets say 10% of the hull.
The other could see the whole thing.

If the vehicle is obscured from the point of view of half or more of the firing models, it gets the cover save. Covered explicitly in the cover rules on page 22 (Units Partially In Cover).







Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galador wrote:It also states that if your not sure whether it is 50% in cover or not, simply modify its save by -1. So, in essence, you could also have given it a 5+ cover save, as per the obscured rule.

That's for situations where it is difficult to tell if 50% of the vehicle is obscured. The situation as described in the original post is not at all unclear, so there is no need to apply this rule.

We had a similar situation in our last game, where the following occurred:

1) A squad of 15 Lootas is fired on by a squad of 8 Swooping Hawks.
2) 3 of the Hawks can see more than 50% of the squad, so no cover.
3) 5 of the Hawks can see less than 50% of the squad, so cover.

I can see 2 ways to handle this, mostly like Happyjew stated earlier:
A) The Lootas get no cover save from the 3 Hawks who can see majority, but a cover save from the 5 Hawks who can't.
B) Because the Lootas have cover from the majority of the Hawks, the Lootas all get a cover save.

Is there a ruling somewhere in the book for this that I can't find, or perhaps in a FAQ? If not, what do you use in your own games?

B) Because the Lootas have cover from the majority of the Hawks, the Lootas all get a cover save.

Page 22 details cover saves for units partially in cover.

It's 50% of the shooting models in the unit. Hence the reason some people will opt to not shoot with a model.

insaniak wrote:

mishka_shaw wrote:It states that for a vehicle to be hidden and obtain a 4+ save than the majority of the unit needs to see over 50% of the hull.

You have that the wrong way around.

For the vehicle to receive a cover save, it has to be more than 50% obscured, not more than 50% visible.

Whoops type there, yeah I meant that way.


Edit: So to clarify you basically check each model to see if it can see 50% or more of the vehicle hull. Than tally up wether more can units see over half or more see under half than give the save accordingly?

Yes, exactly.

mishka_shaw wrote:

insaniak wrote:

mishka_shaw wrote:It states that for a vehicle to be hidden and obtain a 4+ save than the majority of the unit needs to see over 50% of the hull.

You have that the wrong way around.

For the vehicle to receive a cover save, it has to be more than 50% obscured, not more than 50% visible.

Whoops type there, yeah I meant that way.


Edit: So to clarify you basically check each model to see if it can see 50% or more of the vehicle hull. Than tally up wether more can units see over half or more see under half than give the save accordingly?

Each firing model, not just each model. So, you can have some models not fire in order to make sure the vehicle doesn't get a cover save.

Or, you can have models fire that don't have range/weapons that can harm the vehicle to let your heavy weapon guy (who can't see more than 50% of the vehicle) not give up a cover save.

Never thought of that, thanks all.

Graqkmar - it doesnt work like that, as you only total up weapons capable of hurting the vehicle when determining if you give a cover save. So you cant fire lasguns so the autocannon can avoid giving a cover save, for example

nosferatu1001 wrote:Graqkmar - it doesnt work like that, as you only total up weapons capable of hurting the vehicle when determining if you give a cover save. So you cant fire lasguns so the autocannon can avoid giving a cover save, for example

A rule I wasn't familiar with, yet here it is:

"If a squad is firing at a vehicle, the vehicle is obscured only if it is 50% hidden from the majority of the firing models (do not count models that cannot hurt the vehicle)."

Good catch. Thanks, Nos!