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ok so i do know the basics of the inquisition but one thing i do want to know is what the three orders do, ive gathered that the ordo Xenos have something to do with the Xenos races and that the ordo heraticus do something with heraitics but beyond that im confused.

could someone please explain this in detial, it would help a great deal

Your best bet is probably to check Lexicanum for various links, in-depth information, etc: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisition

To very quickly sum up the big three, the "Ordos Majoris" (as shown by the link there are also "Ordos Minoris" that have more specialised roles, though there's not much information on them):

Ordo Xenos - monitors and fights against aliens;
Ordo Hereticus- investigates cults, rebellions, treachery, and that sort of thing;
Ordo Malleus - fights daemons.

Each Ordo has a Chamber Militant to act as its armed forces as well.

There are three major branches of the Inquisition. The Ordo Xenos is the arm dedicated to stopping alien threats to the Imperium, eg genestealer cults, alien tech etc. The ordo Hereticus are the arm dedicated to stopping heresy and cults, usually killing any heretics and cults. Ordo Mallues are the last of the three which deal with daemons and anything to do with the warp. There can also be some overlap between arms, like an Inquisitor of the ordo hereticus would call in an Inquisitor of the ordo mallues if they discover a cult is consorting with daemons.

Fezman wrote:Each Ordo has a Chamber Militant to act as its armed forces as well.

I'm afraid this info seems to be outdated. The latest GK Codex apparently mentions the Grey Knights as the Chamber Militant for the Inquisition as a whole, the Sisters' new WD minidex foregoes any mention of the Convocation of Nephilim or their old role for the Ordo Hereticus, and the Deathwatch has not been mentioned at all throughout 5E (not even in the "Defenders of the Imperium" list of the core rulebook, which does talk about the GKs and SoB).

Yeah, this was news to me as well.

As far as the Inquisition Ordos are concerned, I would recommend reading the Inquisitor RPG, available as a free download on GW's website:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat480007a&categoryId=1100009§ion=&aId=4900004

That's unexpected...I wonder if the Deathwatch RPG at least still portrays them as an arm of the Ordo Xenos?

Fezman wrote:That's unexpected...I wonder if the Deathwatch RPG at least still portrays them as an arm of the Ordo Xenos?

It does.

The Mad Tanker wrote:It does.

Just whatever you do, don't let anyone be a devistator marine in Deathwatch. It breaks the game.

There are also a number of smaller ordos. Three of which are listed on that lexicanum link above.

Lynata wrote:

Fezman wrote:Each Ordo has a Chamber Militant to act as its armed forces as well.

I'm afraid this info seems to be outdated. The latest GK Codex apparently mentions the Grey Knights as the Chamber Militant for the Inquisition as a whole, the Sisters' new WD minidex foregoes any mention of the Convocation of Nephilim or their old role for the Ordo Hereticus, and the Deathwatch has not been mentioned at all throughout 5E (not even in the "Defenders of the Imperium" list of the core rulebook, which does talk about the GKs and SoB).

Yeah, this was news to me as well.

As far as the Inquisition Ordos are concerned, I would recommend reading the Inquisitor RPG, available as a free download on GW's website:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat480007a&categoryId=1100009§ion=&aId=4900004

With 40k fluff I think the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Until there's something that directly contradicts the SoB/Deathwatch still existing as Chamber Militants, I wouldn't count them out. The inconsistency of 40k fluff is not a surprise. The Deathwatch/SoB have been staples of Black Library books as well, I really doubt GW would just cut them out like that.

I'd find it a bit absurd if the Grey Knights, the finest fighting force in the Imperium, were being wasted bringing down heretic cells on Hive World or purging renegade Priests...

The Mad Tanker wrote:

Fezman wrote:That's unexpected...I wonder if the Deathwatch RPG at least still portrays them as an arm of the Ordo Xenos?

It does.

Not really ... it portrays them as some sort of independent Chapter allied with the Ordo Xenos. Somehow, they gained a legion of new members (Codex recruitment restrictions have been lifted as well, presumably to allow players to pick from any Chapter they like) and their own fortresses and outposts throughout the Imperium (maintaining a presence in almost every single sector), and fleets of starships including battle barges and untraceable, fully-automated kill ships capable of delivering Exterminatus at the Space Marines' whim. Don't ask me how that makes any sense in comparison to the old material or the old "don't allow the Marines to become too powerful!" schpiel the IoM had going on after the Heresy.

Not that this has to mean anything, mind you. In FFG's RPG, Grey Knights are still shining paladins eshewing anything daemonic (but they do have the Dreadknight ), SoB have been scaled down to power armoured Guardswomen with guns incapable of actually hurting a Marine, the Imperial Guard has millions of Storm Troopers all over the galaxy instead of just a single regiment etc. Just like some novels, FFG's RPGs follow their own interpretation of the setting based on the personal preferences of the people involved in writing them.

I am surprised that GW themselves did contradict/retcon themselves so much with this, though. Haven't really expected this after the big remake of the setting as described in the original first edition rulebook.

Harriticus wrote:Until there's something that directly contradicts the SoB/Deathwatch still existing as Chamber Militants, I wouldn't count them out.

That's a good point - in the other thread I also voiced the possibility of them simply existing alongside each other. Still, the wording in the Codex as well as the general absence of Deathwatch over multiple books that should have mentioned them (the 5E Codex Space Marines also talks only about the Grey Knights as a special case) does make me pause and at least consider what is being hinted at.

I'm quite curious what future studio material will contain in this regard.

to be honest it makes sence to me that they can just go up to any branch of the imperium and get whatever resources or military force they need, this is because i vaguely remember reading something in the blood angels codex about the grey knights asking for the assistance of the sanguinary guard in the slaying of some beasty blood thirster

KillerSkivil wrote:to be honest it makes sence to me that they can just go up to any branch of the imperium and get whatever resources or military force they need

True, true...
Still, I always thought the Deathwatch had its place due to their specialization on both anti-xenos warfare and small kill teams over company-based tactics, plus they were given special weapons and equipment from the Inquisition they likely wouldn't hand out to any Marine Chapter whose help they requisition only on a short term basis. There even used to be experienced Deathwatch Marines (-> Captain Artemis from GW's Inquisitor RPG) leading teams of "normal" Ordo Xenos operatives on some mission.

Then again, the Imperium was never big on efficiency, so I suppose it's not that unreasonable. I just admit I liked the idea.

each order may have thier "go to" forces like the ordo xenos jumps on the deathwatch and the heraticus like to use space marine chapters and the ordo malius just use what evers closest

Well, but that's not what the new material is saying. It literally points to the Grey Knights as being the "go to" force for all the Inquisition, whilst the Deathwatch are not mentioned anywhere since 5E, and the SoB only in their original role as an Ecclesiarchal enforcer.

Coincidence? Oversight? Or retcon? For the first option it's starting to be a bit too consistent amongst the recent releases.

By the way, here's an interesting thread from the B&C forums I stumbled upon whilst reading up on the issue (a few hours ago I was still unaware of all of this):
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=226872&st=0
Complete with quotes and pagenumbers. OP's prediction on last year's SoB Codex not containing any Inquisition ties were quite prophetic, were they not?

I haven't got the GK codex with me, but I'm pretty sure it mentions something about one working with the other not meaning one holding the others leash.

Or something like that.

Anyway, the impression I got was that the Grey Knights are not the chamber militant of the Inquisition, rather just a chapter that operates in the same area of expertise, and so through necessity often operates in conjunction with the Inquisition. And depending on the individual parameters of the mission, it may be a GK or Inquisitor that was in charge.

I haven't heard anything about the Deathwatch, so I'm assuming their still working as kill teams for the Ordo Xenos. And the Sisters of Battle have been moved back into the Ecclesiarchal fold, rather than Ordo Hereticus lackeys. Which I rather like.

Kaldor wrote:I haven't got the GK codex with me, but I'm pretty sure it mentions something about one working with the other not meaning one holding the others leash.

Oh, is that another retcon?
What does "Chapter Militant" even mean, then, given that Inquisitors would have the right to just order them to do whatever they want done anyways? Would you be able to find the specific line?

It sounds like GW could simply do away with the "Chamber Militant" idea when all the Chambers Militant that used to exist in the old fluff are either having their ties to the Inquisition dissolved or get squatted.

Lynata wrote:

Kaldor wrote:I haven't got the GK codex with me, but I'm pretty sure it mentions something about one working with the other not meaning one holding the others leash.

Oh, is that another retcon?
What does "Chapter Militant" even mean, then, given that Inquisitors would have the right to just order them to do whatever they want done anyways? Would you be able to find the specific line?

It sounds like GW could simply do away with the "Chamber Militant" idea when all the Chambers Militant that used to exist in the old fluff are either having their ties to the Inquisition dissolved or get squatted.

I just had a look through the codex, and it does specficially mention that the GK are the chamber militant of the Inquisition, not a specific Ordo. I must have read that leash thingy in a white dwarf or something.

It seems that either GW is changing alot. They are either working up to give the Inquisition a full army (perhaps their own codex) since Grey Knights are too few in number to be called on by all three Ordos...

Or they are going to significantly increase the number of GKs.

The credo goes like this:

The Imperium deals with threats in three forms:

Threats from Within (Ordo Hereticus: goes after heretics, heresy, rogue psykers, agents of Chaos. Sometimes goes after aliens that are infiltrating Imperial society along with the Ordo Xenos, sometimes ends up having to deal with daemons along with the Ordo Malleus)

Threats from Without (Ordo Xenos: goes after aliens of all forms, sometimes investigates xeno-influenced cults or infiltrations along with the Ordo Hereticus, sometimes ends up fighting daemonic xenos [enslavers for example] along with the Ordo Malleus).

Threats from Beyond (Ordo Malleus: goes after daemons and threats of daemons being summoned. Has some overlap with the Ordo Hereticus as mentioned before, and the occasional overlap with the Ordo Malleus)

Each Inquisitor is not tightly bound to any of the three Ordos, though, and can switch freely if they desire to focus their efforts in a different direction.


Also it's Chamber Militant, not Chapter Militant. The term "Chamber Militant" indicates that it is a "chamber", IE a section, and "militant", IE an army. Effectively this means that the Grey Knights are the army of the Inquisition, although in truth the Inquisition is far more likely to just draft guardsmen (especially stormtroopers) for their cause.

Melissia wrote:Talthough in truth the Inquisition is far more likely to just draft guardsmen (especially stormtroopers) for their cause.

Well, not as per the new GK Codex at least - it literally states "first recourse beyond his own means", meaning the Inquisitor himself and his Acolytes. Unless he does have a permanent force of ISTs on his leash, of course; I recall the Codex Armageddon mentioned some Inquisitor's "household phalanx" in addition to the Guard, Marine, AdMech and Sororitas forces he requisitioned for some mission. That said, given the GK's new role, this is likely to be outdated as well (though easy to bring in line by simply assuming the GKs were not available at that time, already busy with other stuff). Either way, I don't think it would be the norm, as I understood most Inquisitors to travel with few people or even just alone by themselves, only forming ad-hoc armies as per the threats they encounter.

I assume this is at least partially supposed to stress the rarity of Inquisitors already mentioned in the 5E rulebook. There just aren't that many of them around - relatively speaking. If the Grey Knights are operating across all the Imperium anyways, this makes even more sense, as a GK force would be able to respond much quicker than the Imperial Guard that most often requires weeks before it even begins moving towards the world in question.

This conveniently places more responsibility in the other Imperial agencies, including the Arbites and the Ministorum clergy, to keep order, whilst at the same time explaining how it can be that there are often so many things happening where the Imperium is reacting much too late, necessitating the use of brute force (meaning conventional troops squashing a rebellion rather than an Inquisitor and his selected operatives taking out the leaders before it gets blown out of proportion). In essence, it looks like a return to the state of things as described in 2E, where the Inquisition was merely a footnote, a drop in the ocean.

Yeah, I tend to ignore the GK codex's stupider moments. Dark Heresy shows the average operations of the Inquisition far better, with fewer flaws and somewhat less stupidity.

A matter of perception and preferences, I guess. I have yet to find anything as stupid as "civilian plasma guns" (etc) in any of GW's books. Even Draigo and the various pieces of OT SW fluff are only exceptions and not general statements.

That said, and 40k being what it is in terms of fluff consistency amongst its various sources, we all get to pick and choose what we like most - or discard what we don't.

I just hope GW releases some more info on their current plans for the Inquisition soon so I can see what their intention is. For the moment it feels a bit like tapping in the dark.

Lynata wrote:A matter of perception and preferences, I guess. I have yet to find anything as stupid as "civilian plasma guns"

That's not stupid.

The guns are described as very rare, and amongst "civilians" are only used by those very, very fortunate few to actually be able to afford them. Hell, even boltguns are depicted as properly rare-- you really WOULD beggar yourself to own and use a boltgun unless your inquisitor is arranging for ammunition supply. It's more expensive to equip one person with a boltgun and two magazines than it is to equip a squad of people with lasguns and packs.

Most "civilian" weapons are stub weapons, autoguns, and low quality lasguns.

There is no such thing as a "civilian" plasma gun or a "civilian" bolter or "civilian" Terminator armour (!) in my perception of 40k. And certainly I don't subscribe to the idea that the Imperial Guard, the Inquisition and the Adepta Sororitas use "civilian" equipment, as if the almighty Space Marines are the Imperium's only proper military, nor that bolt weapons and power armour are an item issued to PDF troopers as suggested in certain Dark Heresy books.

For my taste, this outsourced RPG is simply hyping its Marines far too much above what I consider appropriate, and it hurts the overall fabric of the setting as it conflicts with the role of other Imperial organizations also employed there, whilst simultaneously also damaging the possibility for a proper crossover like it would be possible with GW material (example: Deathwatch Captain Artemis leading an Ordo Xenos Kill Team composed of normal humans).
It's a common theme in Black Libary to hype the protagonists of a novel above GW standards to make them "more cool", but when you do this in a game designed to host more than this one type of character it invariably diminishes the others.

I have yet to see a reason as to what actually got the writers at BI/FFG to start this trend. Were Space Marines as presented in GW's own Inquisitor RPG not powerful enough? It just seems as if they were looking more to the novels rather than studio material when writing that stuff. Maybe that's the "problem" - wasn't Dan "10 feet Marines" Abnett partially involved in writing the setting?

Might be a topic that warrants its own thread, perchance.

Melissia wrote:Yeah, I tend to ignore the GK codex's stupider moments. Dark Heresy shows the average operations of the Inquisition far better, with fewer flaws and somewhat less stupidity.

I agree i love the dark heresy settings they ad more depth to the universe then well ever get from GW