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Some folks keep saying that because my units are in a ruin that they are obviously visible but get a 4+ cover since they are in area terrain and that the page77 says "both players will be able to see the models for themselves"

Now I have several ruins that have no open windows (they are boarded up) or just sections of walls that are completely solid. Say I have a 1 model unit left alive behind the wall such that it can completely "hide" in there, is he still considered "visible" to the enemy for shooting under the TLOS rule? Or does somehow that last sentence from above make it so that they can still see no matter what?



Also, say for forests, and say I have just a ratling left alive, and he is behind a tree that completely obstructs his model as a 1 model unit, can he still be fired on?

I'm thinking no since page 13 says the trees can still block LOS. What do you guys think?

Nothing says you get to ignore TLOS, so if using TLOS you cannot be seen then you cannot be seen

As above, if he can't be seen he can't be shot.

I have one ruin that is intended to represent a 3 story building with lots of windows. As a "house rule" for that terrain, we just agree beforehand that "it's an imperfect model". Anyone within an inch of a window can see and be seen through that window, effectively the entire wall. Models deep inside the ruin or behind it, benefit or suffer TLOS as written.

Yeah, assault players love playing in ruins.

This is a reason to discuss all terrain pieces before the game begins.

* This hill has a 2" shear face on one side but a shallow slope on the other. Going up the steep side adds 2" to your movement.

* This hill with a couple of trees is all area terrain and gives a 4+ cover save.

* This building is as-is. If you can see my model through a window, you can shoot and grant me a 4+. But if you can't see it, you can't shoot. And the reverse is also true. If my model can't see yours through a window, it can't shoot.

Do this before EVERY game. It prevents arguments.