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Last local tournament a gauntlet was thrown down by a White Scars player for a 2000 pt biker army battle in about 6 weeks.

I will be bringing an Wazdakka + ork biker list to challenge his Kossoro Khan (sp?) + Whitescars list.

The lists are supposed to be biker lists, so please no suggestions about bringing a Kan wall or battlewagon bash I can and do run those, but the match is Biker army Vs Biker army.

Suggestions on loadout and unit spread would be welcome, and as I don't have the Vanillamarine codex any advice for fighting against a Whitescars force/comments on what they can spring on me would be useful also

will you be doing a battle report ? I think this will be an excellent match up

Nob bikers! One super squad is all you need. 10 nobs 2 or 3 claws 5-6 big choppas 1 pain boy. A couple combi skortchas for wound allocation waghh banner and cyborg bodies as te bikes provide 4up armor and cover. Take a secOnd warbiker boss just a warboss with claw he will support boys. Also fun fact bosses should always go with boys nobs are death stars anyways. Take as many boy bikers you can! At least 3 full squads with nobs and boss poles. Then rofl stop!

I'd actually put the boss/wazzdakka with normal bike boyz. They would definitely benefit from the leadership (particularly if you have smaller squads). I really don't think nob biker deathstars need any further babysitting.

Normal bikeboy squads can be downright fragile if you roll badly (and will flee quickly too!)

Dual nob squads.

Bike armies have a hard time in assault, and dual nobs can cause a world of headache

we will be having a CWE biker army joining in too, with luck

I'll battle report it if i can

Thanks for the advice so far, guys.

I'm planning on biker boss and wazdakka as HQ's, each with a regular biker unit as wound soakers.

I'll try to squeeze in 2 nob biker units, if i can. If not one big one will do.

any ideas what the White Scars can bring by way of wierd gear and special rules? I know CWE well enough, and i just KNOW there will be a seer biker council...:(

All right, I'm gonna buck the trend; I'd say to take a lot of Warbikers, and few or no Nob Bikers.

You don't need a lot of Nob Bikers, they're brutal enough to CC to eat any MEQ bike unit pretty easily. They also present a wonderful target for things like meltas and plasma guns; there aren't going to be any tanks on the field, after all. In addition, Kor'sarro Khan is WS6, grants his unit Furious Charge, and has a power weapon that inflicts Instant Death whenever he rolls a 6, so your Nob Bikers could take some surprisingly hefty casualties if he manages to charge them with a unit of Bikers.

If you focus on Warbikers, on the other hand, you could field 59 Warbikers in 8 units, each with a PK/BP Nob, all of which have a guaranteed 4+ cover save and a twin-linked Heavy Bolter they can fire on the move. Every single Warbiker has nearly the firepower of a Space Marine Attack Bike, and they're also much better in assault than the Space Marine equivalent. You can have so many models that they simply cannot kill most of your boyz before you swoop in, rake them with a storm of S5 fire, and then charge with 4 attacks per model. If he focused on model count over wargear you and he will probably have about the same number of models, and yours will be just as good at shooting plus more powerful in assault. The only advantage Space Marine Bikers have over Warbikers is a 3+ save compared to a 4+; in every other way they are worse (or equivalent, in the case of Ld, since Ld 9 and Ld 7 with a reroll are statistically identical).

The other possibility is that he will have taken fewer bikes and more Attack Bikes with multi-meltas/given more bikers plasma guns, anticipating that you would take Nob Bikers, and that would just give you an auto-win.

And remember that Deffkoptas are actually Jetbikes- I don't know if that would 'break the spirit', but if he's taking Kossaro, he's gonna have his own jetbike anyways.

You can even play Wound Shenanigans with Deffkoptas in big squads if you like- but the main thing here would be their Big Bomms and Rokkits- giving you Large Blasts and some AP3 if you want it- and they're 2 wounds each as well as T4(5) and a 4+ save, plus can turbo-boost for a 3+ while using their Bomms.

Anvildude wrote:And remember that Deffkoptas are actually Jetbikes- I don't know if that would 'break the spirit', but if he's taking Kossaro, he's gonna have his own jetbike anyways.

Kor'sarro Khan doesn't have a jetbike. Moondrakkan is a Bike, though it does let him Run and give him Fleet.

Deffkoptas are a possibility.

The CWE army is all jetbikes after all..

Anvildude wrote:And remember that Deffkoptas are actually Jetbikes

"It's not a motorcycle, baby, it's a chopper"

While normally if I run koptas at all it'll be a green baron or two, I think in this scenario they could really come into their own. Having some pie plates on a field free of big guns could come as quite a shock, especially if your opponent has to squish his bikes together to get cover. The stock baron though would be rather useless as I can't see a lone fist living long enough to hit unless he can get to lone attack bikes (or lockless gjb's); however the usual leadership problems apply to squads under Max strength, so probably 3*1 with bigbomm for alpha/outflank shenanigans, maybe with rokkits/kmb just so they can actually do something useful (or at least be enough nuisance to be targeted) for the rest of the game.

Regarding nob bikers, smaller units used surgically would be best. You'd have to keep them well covered, naturally. Avoid the deathstar as vs scars, your fnp can be neutralised, and vs eldar, they're unnecessary. Regular bikers will tear jetbikes a new one, and you're better off staying out of cc with the council if possible, unless you really want to instakill the ic's. Though it would be amusing to see two 800pt units tarpit each other for 5 turns...

I always wanted to try a bike/stormboy army to be honest, but I think you would consider it to break the spirit of the list.

In order to bring more variety, if you have the time//desire make warbuggies look like two bikes glued together to give yourself another fast attack option.

if you don't find a clever work in for heavier weapons than dakka guns and klaws you may feel very limited in options to be honest.

The stormboyz would, though they'd be cool.

Talked it over with the guys. We agreed that we can have AV 10 open topped vehicles as fast attack also, so buggies for me and Vypers for the eldar player.

The Scars player is runnign pure bikers, but he has meltas and so on on those bikes, so it's fair enough

I actually run a ork bike army occasionally so here's my 2c:

I run 1 small squad of nobs 5-6 with a painboy and unique gear, 2 klaws usually. They're usually on their own, sometimes the boss joins them if they have to hit something hard.

Wazdakka usually starts alone. Depending on how the opponent reacts he either races down a flank and harrasses or races across the table to join my big bike squad. I run 1, sometimes 2 12 bike squads, the rest are 4 or 5 bike squads. Basically I just try to dance my bikes around a unit peppering them with your awesome TL S5 guns until they're soft enough to charge...I know, very un-orky.

Koptas are suicide/tie-up units. Rokkit something, try to hold it in place til Wazzy or a small bike unit can hit it. I've been meaning to run buggies in their place, and honestly with nobs they should synergize well I would think...at least hopefully take some high strength shots off them

Nah, it's not un-Orky, it's just very Evil Sunz-y. Drive around at high speed while shooting large quantities of large bullets pretty much indiscriminately? Sounds like a blast!

In most cases I would recommend 9 rocket buggies with wazdakka. I guess ap3 st8(double t4(5)) could be cool here as well, especially as I think he may have the cc advantage over you.

BeRzErKeR wrote:All right, I'm gonna buck the trend; I'd say to take a lot of Warbikers, and few or no Nob Bikers.

You don't need a lot of Nob Bikers, they're brutal enough to CC to eat any MEQ bike unit pretty easily. They also present a wonderful target for things like meltas and plasma guns; there aren't going to be any tanks on the field, after all. In addition, Kor'sarro Khan is WS6, grants his unit Furious Charge, and has a power weapon that inflicts Instant Death whenever he rolls a 6, so your Nob Bikers could take some surprisingly hefty casualties if he manages to charge them with a unit of Bikers.

If you focus on Warbikers, on the other hand, you could field 59 Warbikers in 8 units, each with a PK/BP Nob, all of which have a guaranteed 4+ cover save and a twin-linked Heavy Bolter they can fire on the move. Every single Warbiker has nearly the firepower of a Space Marine Attack Bike, and they're also much better in assault than the Space Marine equivalent. You can have so many models that they simply cannot kill most of your boyz before you swoop in, rake them with a storm of S5 fire, and then charge with 4 attacks per model. If he focused on model count over wargear you and he will probably have about the same number of models, and yours will be just as good at shooting plus more powerful in assault. The only advantage Space Marine Bikers have over Warbikers is a 3+ save compared to a 4+; in every other way they are worse (or equivalent, in the case of Ld, since Ld 9 and Ld 7 with a reroll are statistically identical).

The other possibility is that he will have taken fewer bikes and more Attack Bikes with multi-meltas/given more bikers plasma guns, anticipating that you would take Nob Bikers, and that would just give you an auto-win.

This, though plasma isn't exactly a problem, meltas are.

You also use unit of five koptaz with wazzdakka - that fixes their leadership issues and they are all shooting S8 weapons, so no conflicts in target priority.

Anvildude wrote:And remember that Deffkoptas are actually Jetbikes- I don't know if that would 'break the spirit', but if he's taking Kossaro, he's gonna have his own jetbike anyways.

You can even play Wound Shenanigans with Deffkoptas in big squads if you like- but the main thing here would be their Big Bomms and Rokkits- giving you Large Blasts and some AP3 if you want it- and they're 2 wounds each as well as T4(5) and a 4+ save, plus can turbo-boost for a 3+ while using their Bomms.

Deffkoptas with a biker boss w BP!

Might be worth a try.

I don't want to stry too far from the biker gang vs bikergang feel of the faceoff. It's a themed game, so we're going to try and stay in-theme as much as we can.

I'll be taking a squadron of rokkit buggies, and maybe a single unit of deffkoptas. The rest will be bikes of one flavour or another. 1/4 of my force being buggies would be a bit out of theme (though very speed-freek), as would 15 koptas, even if they are officialy jetbikes

The eldar player will be using guardian bikes, shining spears and jetlocks, with a vyper or two as support.

The White Scars player will be biking it all the way.

None of us really care if we win or lose. We just want to dust off our bikes and actually use them for a change (the WS player has other Marine armies that he usually runs..)

I'll post my tentative list for your dissection when i get around to it

Grots R OP wrote:

Anvildude wrote:And remember that Deffkoptas are actually Jetbikes- I don't know if that would 'break the spirit', but if he's taking Kossaro, he's gonna have his own jetbike anyways.

You can even play Wound Shenanigans with Deffkoptas in big squads if you like- but the main thing here would be their Big Bomms and Rokkits- giving you Large Blasts and some AP3 if you want it- and they're 2 wounds each as well as T4(5) and a 4+ save, plus can turbo-boost for a 3+ while using their Bomms.

Deffkoptas with a biker boss w BP!

Note that bombs are quite hard to use if you add a biker boss, as he can't jump over units.

I've played a C:SM vs C:SM biker battle once, and it is insane. The incredible speed of both armies actually end up cancelling each other out, there ends up being pretty much no room on the table and the army with the most close combat wins. That was at 1500pts. At 2000pts on a normal table with two biker armies, there will be no room to manover at all. Your orks will have a major advantage as pretty much all of your units smash his units apart in cc.

I predict that the battle will turn out like this:
Turn 1 - you turboboost everything into his face. He shoots everything at something, hurting one squad, but because of 3+ cover, he can't kill it.
Turn 2 - you charge everything into everything
Turn 3+ clean up

If he has a command squad with khan, I would advice bringing a squad of nob bikers to take them out. They are about the only thing that can cause real issues for you in this match-up