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Hey guys! I'm a new SW player. I am playing a Loganwings recently. I am confused when make choice between bolters and bolt pistos for my wolf guard. Should I use all bolters for them or mix bolters and pistos? Thanks!

Don't mix bolters and bolt pistols. Want an extra attack? Take the pistols. Want an extra shot at 12"/ a shot at 24"? Take the bolter. You could also try giving them all storm bolters, which are like having bolters that you can always rapid fire up to 24" AND assault. Or try giving the entire pack combi-plasma for that FU

Loganwing's real strength is the Wolf Guard and mixing in Terminator Heavy Weapons. A few Storm Bolter / Storm Shield combinations wouldn't be terrible for your "front" packs. Taking a Storm Bolter on anyone with a Power Fist/Wolf Claw/Thunder Hammer wouldn't be bad either (though you may as well take those on the Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon). I'd prefer to have the maximum number of attacks in combat I can.

For your home Objective you could always do a 5 man Terminator squad to be extra annoying, though the mixed armor is probably your best bet for every unit. Ablative wounds are nice.

1 CML 4 powerfist with combimeltas is an option.
Otherwise 2 and 2 with a CML to help with wound allocation.

Jakka wrote:Don't mix bolters and bolt pistols. Want an extra attack? Take the pistols. Want an extra shot at 12"/ a shot at 24"? Take the bolter. You could also try giving them all storm bolters, which are like having bolters that you can always rapid fire up to 24" AND assault. Or try giving the entire pack combi-plasma for that FU

Thanks, I think I will take CML and PF for one WG in 5, and pistos for rest of them to provide additional Attack. I think Loganwings are weak against strong close combat unit such as paladins and 10 man Terminators w/SS and SH.


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Yesterday I use Loganwings against ultramarines. My Logan's unit with 10WG is easily killed by his 10man Terminators w/SS and SH with two hq, one is that T6 priest who can retoll to hit, and one provide fleet rule. I only killed 3 if them, they killed all of mine. I try to avoid Clise combat with them and shoot, but they fleet and caught me. My unit is 10Wg, 1TDA 2TDA+PF+CML, with Logan.

Is there any advice how to beat these CC monsters?

"weak against strong close combat unit such as paladins" I think you would find any unit having some trouble with 700 points no matter from what army.

I dont thinkweak vs Pallys is a bad rap for any unit since a 10 man with tricks costs 690 pts. So it will take an army or a psykout grenade led DCA squad. lol Those buggers in assault in either the gk book or sob book are awful dang good.

Niiai wrote:"weak against strong close combat unit such as paladins" I think you would find any unit having some trouble with 700 points no matter from what army.

yeah, I think the best I can do is shoot them as possible and use two or more squades of WG assult them if there is no other choice.

nereus2 wrote:

Niiai wrote:"weak against strong close combat unit such as paladins" I think you would find any unit having some trouble with 700 points no matter from what army.

yeah, I think the best I can do is shoot them as possible and use two or more squades of WG assult them if there is no other choice.

Or you can use cml and long fangs and not assault them. Paladins shooting isnt gonna bother terminator armor of wg but their banner/halberd charge with rerolling 1s or counter attack can shred you. So stick to sw strengths but shooting and then attacking a gimped squad.

Draigo wrote:

nereus2 wrote:

Niiai wrote:"weak against strong close combat unit such as paladins" I think you would find any unit having some trouble with 700 points no matter from what army.

yeah, I think the best I can do is shoot them as possible and use two or more squades of WG assult them if there is no other choice.

Or you can use cml and long fangs and not assault them. Paladins shooting isnt gonna bother terminator armor of wg but their banner/halberd charge with rerolling 1s or counter attack can shred you. So stick to sw strengths but shooting and then attacking a gimped squad.

Your advice is of great help, thanks bro!

Hold on, im confused. Arent you supposed to be running TDA on loganwings?

Yuber wrote:Hold on, im confused. Arent you supposed to be running TDA on loganwings?

Sorry I didn't make my point clear. I do use one TDA for every five WG, but for the rest of them, four PA WG. What confused me was their wargear choice.

Hmm. so why would you want to use PA wolfguards? The true glory of Loganwing is to bring all TDA wolfguard... thus the name loganwing.

Yuber wrote:Hmm. so why would you want to use PA wolfguards? The true glory of Loganwing is to bring all TDA wolfguard... thus the name loganwing.

Actualy no, you do not want to use TDA all out. Other armies does that mutch better and cheaper (vanilla marines, blood angels, raven wing and grey knights.) If he is going to play loganwing he has to stick to the strengths of the wolf codex.

Yuber wrote:Hmm. so why would you want to use PA wolfguards? The true glory of Loganwing is to bring all TDA wolfguard... thus the name loganwing.

The strength of loganwing is being able to take larger numbers of terminator heavy weapons and having semi-elite cheap troops, not terminator spam.

Space wolves terminators are expensive, compared to other codices but even internally. Just as it has not been explicitly mentioned.

Paladins have 24'' shooting range, your missile launchers much more, dreads may be an issue. Just as it has not been explicitly mentioned.

nereus2 wrote:Thanks, I think I will take CML and PF for one WG in 5, and pistos for rest of them to provide additional Attack. I think Loganwings are weak against strong close combat unit such as paladins and 10 man Terminators w/SS and SH.

I'd consider upping it to a Chain Fist, at least for some. Can't take a Chain Fist except on a TDA anyways and the extra 2D6 will mulch Dreadnoughts/Defilers which otherwise would be somewhat painful in close combat. It even lets you carve a Land Raider if you really, really wanted to.

nereus2 wrote:Yesterday I use Loganwings against ultramarines. My Logan's unit with 10WG is easily killed by his 10man Terminators w/SS and SH with two hq, one is that T6 priest who can retoll to hit, and one provide fleet rule. I only killed 3 if them, they killed all of mine. I try to avoid Clise combat with them and shoot, but they fleet and caught me. My unit is 10Wg, 1TDA 2TDA+PF+CML, with Logan.

Is there any advice how to beat these CC monsters?

Aside from shooting them to death, charge them with multiple units. Other than having 4 WGBL/Wolf Lords, you won't have a lot of attacks at above I4 so they'll strike at the same time as you. So you will both take heavy casualties. If you can hit them with 3 units though your weight of numbers will A) make you lose less models per unit and B) inflict too many wounds for them to sustain without lucky dice rolls.

Niiai wrote:"weak against strong close combat unit such as paladins" I think you would find any unit having some trouble with 700 points no matter from what army.

Paladins are gross. Stay out of hand to hand with them if you can. Rending hits (Mark of the Wulfen or Assault Cannons) and AP2 hits (Melta, Plasma, Lascannons) are the only safe way to take them out. FNP multi-wound Terminators are just too tough to kill. I know, I take a Lone Wolf with TDA, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, and two Fenrisian Wolves most of the time. Its fairly amusing to have the enemy shoot him with a third of his army and cause only one Wound, then have the Lone Wolf charge him the next turn and cause an enemy unit to fall back (and consolidate within 3" so he falls back further on his turn). I could only imagine the joy one would get fielding 20 of them.

Yuber wrote:Hmm. so why would you want to use PA wolfguards? The true glory of Loganwing is to bring all TDA wolfguard... thus the name loganwing.

No. Its called Loganwing because you need Logan Grimnar. Wolf guard in TDA cost 33 points a pop and only have a Power Weapon. What's really nice about Wolf Guard is you can mix armor and keep point costs down so you can take more and more Missile Launchers.

135 points for 5 Wolf Guard, with 1 TDA w/ CML. More with other wargear. You can have up to 10 but can't combat squad. So with minimum sized squads and Long Fangs you can bring 27 Missiles that can fire at 9 different targets. All for only ~1500 points. That's a stupid amount of anti-horde and anti-tank. And with Logan Grimnar, you also are getting Tank Hunters or other special abilities for one squad, and you are going to get a lot of attacks in close combat when you need it.


Edit: Apparently 'r-tard' is 'offensive' and is automatically changed to "slowed". I hate to break it to you, but despite your wishes the word also has a second meaning that is synonymous with "stupid". I have no personal beef with special needs people (many have been part or are part of my life) and I think its just dumb to censor things like that. I recommend viewing George Carlin's bit about a certain 7 words...

Hmmm ML spam... like this?

HQ
Logan 275

Elites
Wolf Scouts (5), 2PW, 3MB - 120

Troops
WG Pack (10), 2 TDA, 2 CML, 2Combi-M -280
WG Pack (5), TDA, CML -135
WG Pack (5), TDA, CML -135
WG Pack (5), TDA, CML -135

Fast Attack

Heavy Support
Long Fangs, 5ML -140
Long Fangs, 5ML -140
Long Fangs, 5ML -140

cowmonaut wrote:135 points for 5 Wolf Guard, with 1 TDA w/ CML. More with other wargear. You can have up to 10 but can't combat squad. So with minimum sized squads and Long Fangs you can bring 27 Missiles that can fire at 9 different targets. All for only ~1500 points. That's a stupid amount of anti-horde and anti-tank. And with Logan Grimnar, you also are getting Tank Hunters or other special abilities for one squad, and you are going to get a lot of attacks in close combat when you need it.

This is the true power of "Loganwing." Minimum number of TDA guys to maximize heavy weapons. I have faced this and got absolutely wrecked. Of course against certain lists (Paladin deathstar or other terminator heavy lists) it won't do too well due to the enemy always having a 2+ save. But thems the breaks. The list I faced had a couple of lascannons in one of the long fangs squads, just to mix things up. Less missiles overall, but some AP2.

Edit: Apparently 'r-tard' is 'offensive' and is automatically changed to "slowed". I hate to break it to you, but despite your wishes the word also has a second meaning that is synonymous with "stupid". I have no personal beef with special needs people (many have been part or are part of my life) and I think its just dumb to censor things like that. I recommend viewing George Carlin's bit about a certain 7 words...

The thing that gets me is that stupid, imbecile, moron and the "r" word are all about low intelligence. There are literally imbeciles out there, and stupid people out there, just as there are technically "r" people out there. I think we can all agree on that. So here's the problem - what is the difference between calling an argument "stupid" or "moronic" or the "r" word? None that I can see, as each of those words can also accurately be used on people themselves. Why several of these words are allowed and one is not is a mystery to me.

For awhile the word gay was auto changed around here as well. Somethnig about kids using it as a synonym for "lame." Now I don't see anyone speaking like someone from the 1940's claiming they had a gay old time playing Warhammer, but heck, people could mention the word in passing here using it's normal modern day definition, without having to resort to the scientific and much less plesant term.

Against paladins the kraks will instant death and ignore FNP. Every 6th missile that hits killing an expensive model is pretty good.
The missiles will also be all right against the dreads that will be the only long range threat in a Draigowing list.

This may be a wierd suggestion, but something like a vindicaor would be a good way to kill Palains it seems. Instant death strength and requiring invul saves and hitting alot of models. However, this would defeat the purpose of the Loganwing (and is kind of a random way to deal with them) but it is a counter.

Missile spam is defo the strength of the Loganwing list. With so many missiles, pretty much nothing will be able to survive for very long. It may not be a very 'fun' list to play however, as you will just be sitting and shooting some missiles at people till they die.

Niiai wrote:

Yuber wrote:Hmm. so why would you want to use PA wolfguards? The true glory of Loganwing is to bring all TDA wolfguard... thus the name loganwing.

Actualy no, you do not want to use TDA all out. Other armies does that mutch better and cheaper (vanilla marines, blood angels, raven wing and grey knights.) If he is going to play loganwing he has to stick to the strengths of the wolf codex.

Enjoy your non scoring terminators.


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Grundz wrote:

Yuber wrote:Hmm. so why would you want to use PA wolfguards? The true glory of Loganwing is to bring all TDA wolfguard... thus the name loganwing.

The strength of loganwing is being able to take larger numbers of terminator heavy weapons and having semi-elite cheap troops, not terminator spam.

Except it wont be loganwing anymore. But i dont want dispute over nomenclature.


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MFletch wrote:Space wolves terminators are expensive, compared to other codices but even internally. Just as it has not been explicitly mentioned.

Paladins have 24'' shooting range, your missile launchers much more, dreads may be an issue. Just as it has not been explicitly mentioned.

I cannot fathom a how 33 pt model is more expensive to a 40 pt non scoring one.


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cowmonaut wrote:

Yuber wrote:Hmm. so why would you want to use PA wolfguards? The true glory of Loganwing is to bring all TDA wolfguard... thus the name loganwing.

No. Its called Loganwing because you need Logan Grimnar. Wolf guard in TDA cost 33 points a pop and only have a Power Weapon. What's really nice about Wolf Guard is you can mix armor and keep point costs down so you can take more and more Missile Launchers.

135 points for 5 Wolf Guard, with 1 TDA w/ CML. More with other wargear. You can have up to 10 but can't combat squad. So with minimum sized squads and Long Fangs you can bring 27 Missiles that can fire at 9 different targets. All for only ~1500 points. That's a stupid amount of anti-horde and anti-tank. And with Logan Grimnar, you also are getting Tank Hunters or other special abilities for one squad, and you are going to get a lot of attacks in close combat when you need it.

27 Missiles isn't impressive. Its stupid. But hey - that's just me.

Ive been in dakka for a long time, and I have seen this ML spam way too much.

I have tried it extensively and its not really that great. Its a great attrition tool, but not all battles are fought with attrition.