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I have been playing IG for a while, and I keep getting worked. The last few games have been closer, but I continue to lose and it seems my blob squads are to blame. My FLGS is primarily CC dedicated armies (Nids, Orks, BA, Crons, and GK) and as a shooty army I do great until they get into Assault range and it all goes down the drain.

I run my blob squads as adviced, 2 IS, Commissar,as many PWs as I can fit, MB(if points permit), and Meltaguns. I usually run 2 of these in my list (posted below). But small squads from the enemy just wipe the floor with me.

What I dont get is a blob squad has I3 and WS of 3, going up against most opponents with higher WS and higher I means I go second. Then when it is my turn of what is left of my 21 man squad, half hit, then of that 50% that hit I need 5+'s to wound due to the typical T4 against my strength 3. Then they get thier Invul. saves/armor saves. By the end of this maybe I killed 1-2. After that we tally up who won/lost combat, typically me, then with stubborn thanks to the Commissar, I take wounds equal to how many guys I lost in the assault phase, typically 6-11, and I take that many wounds. Leaving me with close to 0-4 men left. Of those guardsmen remaining they will be slaughtered in the next assault phase, if my opponents no worries I can shoot them, if I was assaulted, which is typically the cause, my turn and my remaining men die and my opponent can continue to assault me in their turn.

Am I missing something? I realize my numbers may be slightly off, but the benefits of running blob squads I dont see. Wouldnt it be better to run single infantry squads without Commissars to get fed to my assaulty enemy and then blasted my turn? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading.

I run the following list:

CCS-PG, Lascnnon
Marbo
PBS-4 additional Psykers
PCS-4X flamer
2X IS w/ Comm, 2 MG, PWs
2X IS w/Comm, 2 Flam, PWs
HWS-3Xautocannon
Vets-Chim, 3X PG, Lascannon
2X Meltavets in Chim w/ HF
2X Vendetta (not squaded)
2X Demolisher (also not squaded)
Manticore

um. I think your playing stubborn wrong. When you loose combat you take an unmodified leadership test of 9 which is rerollable (due to your commisar). So if your loosing models due to no retreat saves (which occurs to fearless units) then this might increase the survivability of your blobs.

secondly. 21 man blobs can be focus fired off the board. only having 2, 21 man blobs kind of defeats the main strengths of blob lists. just looking at your army i see lots of different themes in your list and this may be whats killing you.

Because you have different themes, your opponent may be able to use his anti-infantry on your blobs, his anti medium tank against your medium av tanks etc etc. Thus he has an easier time of target priority.

do you think this happens in your battles?

Yeah, that might be it. I understand that bringing more Chimeras and loading up on Vets might be the answer, but Id like to avoid a leafblower list if possible.

And you may be correct about Stubborn. And that might be why they die so quickly. So with stubborn the unit does not automatically pass morale and then enter "No Retreat" but instead ignores negative modifiers so I would roll to see if I passed with the Commissars leadership of 9 and if I pass the squad stays in assault with the enemy units as well?

You generally want 3 squads in a blob, and several blobs, more than two

Also, just because you have vets in chimeras does not make you list a "leafblower" list

Lol, two squads isn't a blob squad, You're doing it wrong.

5 squads + commisar with power weapon. Those are 6 hidden power weapons and a blob of 30-40 + bodies to get through to get to those power weapons and the commissar. Even terminators charging in can have a tough time against that.

You lose combat every turn..but who care? You're stubbon rerollable because of the commissar.

UMGuy wrote:
2X Vendetta (not squaded)
2X Demolisher (also not squaded)
Manticore

.....isn't that five heavy support slots?

maceria wrote:

UMGuy wrote:
2X Vendetta (not squaded)
2X Demolisher (also not squaded)
Manticore

.....isn't that five heavy support slots?

Vendettas are Fast Attack choices.

EmilCrane wrote:You generally want 3 squads in a blob, and several blobs, more than two

Also, just because you have vets in chimeras does not make you list a "leafblower" list

This...

Also stubborn is not fearless. You don't need to make any extra saves after you lose combat.

Have you looked at iron hand shriken? Furious charge and counter attack...ouch!!!

Ah, ok. Don't have my codex out here.

Just to make sure you got all the details of how the blob works:

You've got 3 infantry squads and a commissar, each sergeant and the commissar has a power weapon (no other upgrades are really necessary). And that's a blob.

When the unit that wants to assault you moves up into assault range, you step up and give your blob the first rank fire, second rank fire order to thin them out with lasgun fire. The blob tests orders on the commissar's Ld 9.

When your opponent charges, he gets all his attacks first, and kills a bunch of guardsmen. A bunch of guardsmen strike back and don't do much, but the 15 power weapon attacks (each sergeant and the commissar get 2 attacks base +1 for the laspistol) kill about 2-3 of the attackers on their own.

You lose combat by a bunch, but test on Ld9. If you fail the first time, you kill a sergeant and try again. When you pass, you take no additional wounds but just stay in combat.

In this way, you can grind down most assault units to nothing in a couple or three turns.

Thanks a lot guys, especially Flavius, thats what I was looking for.

I will try running 3 or 4 squads and see how they fair. And the correction of the rule Stubborn will make a huge difference. If the blob squads cannot kill whoever they are in CC with at least this new light will keep them occupied for multiple turns instead of one.

And Im sorry, but does Straken have furious charge and Counter attack? I did not think he did... EDIT: yes he does, this opens up lots of new possibilities...

This cannot be repeated by enough people here. You are playing the stubborn rule very, very wrong. Playing it like fearless means your blobs are going to get liquefied after a couple of rounds of combat (like you've been seeing). When you play them right, they actually WIN most close combats they get into. When they're up against harder foes, you just bring in a second blob to bail them out. I haven't had anything outlast 2 21-man blobs simultaneously before. Yes, they don't do very much damage per turn, but they're in it for the long game.

If you play stubborn right.

I try to use my blob squads like this:

Two blob squads with commissar and 4 heavy weapons and special weapons (more durable than lone HWS) and one 30 man power blob with commissar as well as flamers, which acts like a bubble wrap unit for nasty assualt units, I have only played a few times with my blob squads so alot of it is still theory though as I am still learning/developing the tactics of the army. I suspose blob tactics work well for horde lists/infantry heavy armies.

The quickest way to see how blobs should work and how to optimise blob lists is to look through Ailaros's battle reports. He has a well documented history with blobs that is very informative.

Look them up.

Alright thanks for the help guys. Ill give it a try again with 2 21 man blobs and maybe straken and correct the mistake my FLGS has been making with stubborn

I am going to be running two blobs, a 31 man blob with plasma guns (No power weapons, I know, bash me now) and a 21 man blob with plasma guns and lascannons. I also have a Vet squad with Harker, demolitions and 3 melta guns. I also have a SWS with 2 flamers and a demo charge, an auto cannon HWS and a PCS with 3 flamers and a HF. Chimeras for the SWS and PCS.

While not the most competitive list, it uses the blobs to hit infantry/ Terminators, harkers vets hit the tanks and the PCS/SWS play defense. Has worked for me so far.

BTW, UMGuy, where in Washington do you play?

Other than the whole stubborn thing, here are some suggestions to add to your list:

Straken: Grants units within 12in of him Counter-Attack and Furious Charge. So if you are charging first you get Str 4 and I 4. That means you will be hitting like a spacemarine. He does wonders for blobs. And couter-attack is handy too when you get assaulted yourself.

Regimental Standard: Not sure if it works this way, but I think if your unit is within 12in and you fail a moral test you get the reroll without losing a power weapon sarg to summary execution. I think you get to decide which re-roll takes precedence I wanna say. I could be wrong, so if anyone wishes to correct that, feel free. Otherwise I'm pretty sure I am playing it right.

WhiteWolf01 wrote:Straken.

He's nice but not necessary. He only helps on the charge and after that you've got to have your list built around him for him to be especially worthwhile (especially since you more or less have to give up his ability to be a senior officer to use him right).

Priests also only help on the charge, and also have eviscerators, but they're also less than half the price.

WhiteWolf01 wrote:Regimental Standard: Not sure if it works this way, but I think if your unit is within 12in and you fail a moral test you get the reroll without losing a power weapon sarg to summary execution. I think you get to decide which re-roll takes precedence I wanna say.

Unfortunately, no.

Under commissars, it says "if the unit fails a morale test he summarily executes". Under the standard it says "may reroll failed morale tests". That means before either of them happen, you first need to fail a morale test. If the unit fails a morale test, the commissar shoots, and you now unlock the ability to use the standard. Either way you get a reroll, but either way, someone is getting gunned down.

So Straken needs to have listed dedicated to him, which makes sense as he is an expensive Character especially for guard. I am going to try out blobs without him and see how they do, they will definitely be better than they were before while I was using stubborn incorrectly.

Priests look ok, its the being able to single them out in CC with W1 irrc.

Both priests and straken have certain things they get you, but require finesse to use properly. If you're not already well-versed in power blobs, then you don't need to start making things more confusing by including them now.

Ailaros wrote:

WhiteWolf01 wrote:Straken.

He's nice but not necessary. He only helps on the charge and after that you've got to have your list built around him for him to be especially worthwhile (especially since you more or less have to give up his ability to be a senior officer to use him right).

Priests also only help on the charge, and also have eviscerators, but they're also less than half the price.

WhiteWolf01 wrote:Regimental Standard: Not sure if it works this way, but I think if your unit is within 12in and you fail a moral test you get the reroll without losing a power weapon sarg to summary execution. I think you get to decide which re-roll takes precedence I wanna say.

Unfortunately, no.

Under commissars, it says "if the unit fails a morale test he summarily executes". Under the standard it says "may reroll failed morale tests". That means before either of them happen, you first need to fail a morale test. If the unit fails a morale test, the commissar shoots, and you now unlock the ability to use the standard. Either way you get a reroll, but either way, someone is getting gunned down.

Thanks for the illumination. I've been playing it wrong then. But it hasn't mattered to much as with stubborn you rarely do fail moral tests. That also adds some pts to my list to throw around then, lol. But yes, the list pretty much has to be tailored to Straken. I generally go hybrid foot-airborne and hug my two blob squads around Straken and slowly move the entire group around the board swallowing everything I come in contact with. It is a sight to see. You just need the airborne for tank popping really.

Ailaros wrote:

WhiteWolf01 wrote:Regimental Standard: Not sure if it works this way, but I think if your unit is within 12in and you fail a moral test you get the reroll without losing a power weapon sarg to summary execution. I think you get to decide which re-roll takes precedence I wanna say.

Unfortunately, no.

Under commissars, it says "if the unit fails a morale test he summarily executes". Under the standard it says "may reroll failed morale tests". That means before either of them happen, you first need to fail a morale test. If the unit fails a morale test, the commissar shoots, and you now unlock the ability to use the standard. Either way you get a reroll, but either way, someone is getting gunned down.

While I agree with you Ailaros that that is the correct interpretation of the rule, depending on whether your FLGS follows the INAT FAQ or not, there is precedent going the other way. So you may be able to save your Power Sarges with a Standard.

INAT FAQ wrote:
IG.32B.02 – Q: If a unit containing a Commissar fails
a Morale check but can re-roll that test (such as with
a Regimental Standard), can they do so, or does
‘Summary Execution’ immediately kick in?

A: The unit can attempt to re-roll the test but if they fail the
second time the Commissar will still perform a ‘Summary
Execution’ (although the test cannot then be re-rolled again)
[clarification].

So if your group plays using the INAT, theres no reason not to live it up while it lasts. Personally I think the ruling is rather awkward and isn't as logical as your assessment, but thats not to say I don't personally enjoy it!

Blobs without power weapons are pretty fail. The role of a blob is to get into CC with an enemy unit(s), and grind them down over time. Plasma guns don't really help with that, and their points can be better used to equip everyone with PW's, so that the blob can work, the hidden PW's is where the blob's punching power comes from.

Occasionally, I like to throw flamers into the squads, there have been several times where I can advance my blobs, flame the enemy, FRFSRF, and then take the inevitable countercharge.

I also tend to run (gasp) a 50-strong unit of conscripts.

In my experience, they make nice renewable meatshields for my blobs, and do well to pin the enemy in place while I maneuver

That said, I tend do use Yarrick behind them in a PCS for the LD bubble, and that gets expensive, but that and a nice blob can hold up a lot of units.

kustom wrote:Blobs without power weapons are pretty fail. The role of a blob is to get into CC with an enemy unit(s), and grind them down over time. Plasma guns don't really help with that, and their points can be better used to equip everyone with PW's, so that the blob can work, the hidden PW's is where the blob's punching power comes from.

Occasionally, I like to throw flamers into the squads, there have been several times where I can advance my blobs, flame the enemy, FRFSRF, and then take the inevitable countercharge.

I also tend to run (gasp) a 50-strong unit of conscripts.

In my experience, they make nice renewable meatshields for my blobs, and do well to pin the enemy in place while I maneuver

That said, I tend do use Yarrick behind them in a PCS for the LD bubble, and that gets expensive, but that and a nice blob can hold up a lot of units.

So that mean's you're running chenkov right? How well does he work, he always seemed like he'd be fun to try, but for the points you spend on all the conscripts and the upgrade that let's you bring them back, couldn't you easily buy another powerblob with meltas/pw/commisar that'd be a lot more effective?

Then again I've never tried it so there might be something I'm missing

kustom wrote:I also tend to run (gasp) a 50-strong unit of conscripts.

(Gasp)!

alarmingrick wrote:

kustom wrote:I also tend to run (gasp) a 50-strong unit of conscripts.

(Gasp)!

(GASP!)

lol.

So, you can take plasma blobs without power weapons, that's fine. A 31-dude blob with 3 plasma guns and 3 plasma pistols and BiD or FRF can be terrifying. Who cares if you don't have power weapons if little is making it into close combat?

I mean, the trygon pops up out of nowhere. The plasma blob takes BiD and fires 9 plasmas (with virtually no overheats) for probably 8 hits for 6 wounds for like 4 that stick after the invul, then the other 24 with lasguns throw down 18 hits for 3 wounds for another that sticks. If you've got ANYTHING else nearby, that trygon is going down in a single round of shooting, easy peasy.

Or you could run some sort of ultrablob and have both power weapons AND special weapons (and heavies while we're at it), but that's another story.

Ailaros, I like that.

As for Chenkhov, he's decent. Yes, this can get expensive, but taking so many bodies wrong-foots people in so many ways. My normal opponents have given up trying to kill them, which allows me to clog up the board and roll a scary amount of dice. It typically doesn't do that much damage, but being able to close off huge swathes of the board and come back if killed is great.


I also love pinning the enemy in place with the conscripts in CC, and then removing them in the shooting phase to bomb them with massed arty, especially after they've been nice and bunched up from the CC.

kustom: Nice but don't they get a consolidation roll after you remove your Conscripts? So they're probably well spaced out anyway.

Consider putting power fists on your PCS, possibly even a priest if you like. This is why:
Sounds like you're mainly fighting MEQs. This means there won't be very many of them, which means when your blob is charged your guys will swarm around the enemy squad.
This means you can charge into combat with a PCS/Priest and cannot be struck back by the enemy. That's 6 S6 PW attacks on the charge with re-rolls, or S8 with straken.
Also since the Priest is IC you can simply move him around to join a blob instead who could do some counter-charging goodness. Remember with Furious Charge (from either straken or creed) you will strike simultaniously against MEQ. a 31 man blob squad will theoretically have 54 S4 attacks(~4 dead) and 16 PW attacks (~4 dead), and that's without a priest.

Joey wrote:Consider putting power fists on your PCS, possibly even a priest if you like. This is why:
Sounds like you're mainly fighting MEQs. This means there won't be very many of them, which means when your blob is charged your guys will swarm around the enemy squad.
This means you can charge into combat with a PCS/Priest and cannot be struck back by the enemy. That's 6 S6 PW attacks on the charge with re-rolls, or S8 with straken.

If you fail to move the assaulting unit into base contact with the enemy (for example if all available space is occupied by friendly models) the assault fails and the unit makes no attacks. If you successfully make base contact then the enemy models engaged with that unit may attack it. It's also S7 with furious charge, you multiply before you add.