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I'm fairly new to WH40k, and was just wondering if someone could answer some of my questions in regards to building a Tyranid army.
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

These questions are based purely off my observations from the Tyranid Codex, as I have not started building an army yet, and am just trying to find an effective army list for 1500-2000 points.

1st Question.

In fielding a more Close Combat oriented army, I was looking at possibly requisitioning the Swarmlord as my HQ choice, however, I was wondering if it would be useful to equip the Tyrant Guards defending him with Boneswords (seeing as they aren't Monstrous Creatures they don't automatically ignore Armor Saves) Would this be a useful investment, or would I be better off spending the points used for other creatures / upgrades?

2nd Question

From all the troop choices, Genestealers seem to be significantly more useful due to their Brood Telepathy special rule (which allows them to not be subject to Instinctive Behavior rules) In the course of creating an army, how many Genestealer Broods would be effective to field in regards to Termagaunts and Hormagaunts.

3rd Question.

I've read in some forums that Trigons are a much better choice than Mawlocs. I was just wondering if someone could explain why this is.

and

4th and final Question,

Carnifex's can be used as Close-Combat Tank-Destroyers, or "Dakkafex's" sporting two Twin-Linked Devourers. There are more options than these but as I'd like to include at least one in my army, I was wondering what the best options would be for:
a) A more Close-Combat oriented Army
or
b) A more shooty army that needed more Firepower.

Any and All assistance would be greatly appreciated, as I am fairly new to the WH40k gaming.
I look forward to your responses, and thank you for your time!

Primal Anarchist

I'm also new to tyranids, but I've read up on them a lot so lets see if I can help.

1. Bone swords are power weapons, which means they cut through armour regardless of if they're on a mc or not. Now, weather or not they're worth it on guard is more a matter of if you have the points to spare. Another thought, if your going for a close combat army, a tyrant with wings might be better for getting into h2h faster.

2. Everything I've read days that you want your troops to be the same, so if you re going genestealers, then go all genestealers. That being said, I love my devilgaunts for shooting up units I don't want to get in a fist fight with. Assault termies aren't fun when they not on your side.

3. This one is kind of a no brainer. Sure the mawloc is cheaper, but you lose 2ws, 3a and all ballistics. Sure you get that fun death from below rule, but it just doesn't seem worth it. For example, turn one you stay either on board or on reserves, either way, your not doing anything. Turn two you might come up from below, and you'll get shot for it. Turn three you go back under ground, turn four you pop up, turn five you go under ground and IF there's a turn six you can pop back up. So best case scenario your paying 170 points for 3 attacks AT MOST! Is it fun? Sure. Competitive? Not even close.

4. No idea, I don't like them. I'd recommend a trygon prime instead, but that's just me.

I can help a little bit, as my wife plays Nids. She plays a Devourer heavy drop army (it fething hurts when they all come in seriously) and I can tell you she has played with a bunch of different Carnifex builds (the girl loves those things I dunno what to tell ya) and I can say from experience, the "tank destroyer" Fex, is a joke. The only time that thing has EVER popped my vehicles, is when I throw them at her, thats it. The x2 TL devourers on a fex can be pretty devastating. 12 str6 TL devourers?! Sure it doesnt have an AP, so against say crons or SM its not AS effective, but still weight of shots and ease of wounds makes them pretty painful. Not to mention they are still a Carnifex, so it can hold its own in CC.


As for stealers. It really depends on how you want to run your army, as far as how many to take. Some people take all stealer armies, others dont. But the basica Principal is, your going to take at least 1 brood of them. And when used right, they will kick some major ass, specially against units that THINK they are CC specialists, but really arnt. My wife will usually bring a full brood of them, and they always make me feel it, even when I shoot them to ribbons, if just a couple make it into CC, they cause so much damage. Her best so far, was with 1 unit of stealers she killed off 3 x20 mobs of boyz in an entire game.

Also, like I said she plays a drop heavy army, so she has a couple x20 broods of termagaunts w/devourers in a SPOD. So she basically bides time with her stealers, and starts to drop down devourers like rain. They are easy enough to shoot to piss and assault, but by then, Ive worn out what I brought, and she can handle the rest from there with her stealers. Its a pretty effective build at times.

1. Tyrant guard with bone swords are a waste of points. They are there to keep the hive tyrant alive. You will be putting all the wounds on them. Its a great waste of points. The Tyrant with wings is a waste. Turn 2 it will be shot down, they are a huge threat, its rare to see them in close combat. keep the guard with either whips, or talons and let the huge beat stick tyrant do the work.

2. Genestealers are pricey for something that isn't bolter proof. if they make it to close combat they are in fact beasts with toxin sacks, you might want to think of running 2-3 squads with some buffer units of gaunts to give them cover as you move up the field.

3. Trigon primes are the best for the points, Trigons are a lot better than Mawlocks. If given the chance run the Trigon. i like to give it toxin sacks so its re-rolling to hit and wound. it becomes nasty very quick.

4. DO NOT RUN CARNIFEXES. They are the biggest point sink in the whole game. No other army has a greater waste of points than a carnifexe. It doesn't matter how you deck them out. They aren't worth taking. Its cool you can take a squad of them, but you can't wound allocate, they are 90 points base, you will be dumping all your points into something that isn't worth it. Take more trigons, they will do a lot more than a fex. Its like GW knew that every one would buy the fex model to convert so they went ahead and nerfed the fex so badly. If you are going to run them, keep them cheap and hide things behind them as they move up. so your opponent will either have to take out the fex and take the gene stealer hit, or hope to take out the gene stealers and get hit by the fex.

I hope some of this helps you. And remember, its your list and your army. If you disagree, run what ever you like and just have fun playing.

Primal Anarchist wrote:
1st Question.
In fielding a more Close Combat oriented army, I was looking at possibly requisitioning the Swarmlord as my HQ choice, however, I was wondering if it would be useful to equip the Tyrant Guards defending him with Boneswords (seeing as they aren't Monstrous Creatures they don't automatically ignore Armor Saves) Would this be a useful investment, or would I be better off spending the points used for other creatures / upgrades?

Bone swords are not worth it on Guard. However lash whips are My Swarmlord with 2 guards have utterly curb stomped on most other deathstars they engage, simply because the enemy always ends up at I1 (go whips) WS1 (Go swarmy!). Every othe rupgrade is pointless for guard as they're the mainly to protect, not kill (though they are still beasts as baseline)

2nd Question
From all the troop choices, Genestealers seem to be significantly more useful due to their Brood Telepathy special rule (which allows them to not be subject to Instinctive Behavior rules) In the course of creating an army, how many Genestealer Broods would be effective to field in regards to Termagaunts and Hormagaunts.

I typically play one squad of 14-18 with toxin sacs on the outflank. They're especially good that way in concert with the Swarmlord's abilities regarding reserves. I often find if i get too many more my army just seems far frailer.

3rd Question.
I've read in some forums that Trigons are a much better choice than Mawlocs. I was just wondering if someone could explain why this is.

Moongok hit the nail on the head. Mawlocs template is nice, but its basically 170 points for a template and punching bag every other turn. A Trygon will kill far more with its gun and far More in CC.

The prime upgrade is also big time worth it, especially if you run reserves. It gets durable Synapse up the feild fast and 20 Str 5 ap 5 shots at 12" or 12 shots at 18" is alot of firepower.

4th and final Question,
Carnifex's can be used as Close-Combat Tank-Destroyers, or "Dakkafex's" sporting two Twin-Linked Devourers. There are more options than these but as I'd like to include at least one in my army, I was wondering what the best options would be for:
a) A more Close-Combat oriented Army
or
b) A more shooty army that needed more Firepower.
Primal Anarchist

In both CC armies and Shooty ones I've always found the Dakafex to be a million times more useful than a CC Carnifex. Why?

1. A Dakafex does not entirely fear being shot down as much, as it can shoot back with impressive firepower and kill off most infantry base/light vehicle threats.
2. A Dakafex will still charge vehicles with 5 Str 9 2d6 AP rolling attacks, not often can they go unscathed.
3. CC Fex still has low initiative so it Fears dedicated CC squads with high Str weapons almost as much as a Dakafex
4. With 4 base attacks a Dakafex still lols at almost every non CC oriented infantry squad.
5. In a Reserve Army a Dakafex actually can do sometihng the turn it arrives (Shoot)

PapaPiggy wrote:
3. Trigon primes are the best for the points, Trigons are a lot better than Mawlocks. If given the chance run the Trigon. i like to give it toxin sacks so its re-rolling to hit and wound. it becomes nasty very quick.

TS on MCs is a waste, and kinda dumb. Trygons are str6 with power weapons, so they'll wound most troops on a 2+, why pay points to make it wound on 4+ instead?

Primal Anarchist wrote:1st Question.

In fielding a more Close Combat oriented army, I was looking at possibly requisitioning the Swarmlord as my HQ choice, however, I was wondering if it would be useful to equip the Tyrant Guards defending him with Boneswords (seeing as they aren't Monstrous Creatures they don't automatically ignore Armor Saves) Would this be a useful investment, or would I be better off spending the points used for other creatures / upgrades?

I'd normally use Lash Whips just to make sure everyone possible goes at I1.

2nd Question

From all the troop choices, Genestealers seem to be significantly more useful due to their Brood Telepathy special rule (which allows them to not be subject to Instinctive Behavior rules) In the course of creating an army, how many Genestealer Broods would be effective to field in regards to Termagaunts and Hormagaunts.

It's a lot of personal choice. Stealer Shock (only Stealers for troop choices) is one of the more competitive builds, but if you want Troop Tervigons, you have to take some Termagants.

3rd Question.

I've read in some forums that Trigons are a much better choice than Mawlocs. I was just wondering if someone could explain why this is.

Because the Mawloc explode-from-the-ground ability is a gimmick at best, and a waste of points at worst. You'll only ever get 3 shots with it, and that's if the Mawloc doesn't get shot dead the turn it comes in - because it can't assault (not that it's that good in CC anyway).
Trygons, however, are awesome. Fast, good in CC, and tough to kill. For not much more than the Mawloc. The Trygon Tunnel is a (mostly worthless) bonus.

4th and final Question,

Carnifex's can be used as Close-Combat Tank-Destroyers, or "Dakkafex's" sporting two Twin-Linked Devourers. There are more options than these but as I'd like to include at least one in my army, I was wondering what the best options would be for:
a) A more Close-Combat oriented Army
or
b) A more shooty army that needed more Firepower.

Dakkafexes if you feel like spending the points. Even with the TL BLDevs the Carnifex is a CC tank destroyer - It's still STR9 with +2d6 to pen (because it's a monstrous creature). Unless you're silly like me and take 3 screamer-killers in a brood, Dakkafexes are a no brainer.

But Trygons are better.

PapaPiggy wrote:1. Tyrant guard with bone swords are a waste of points. They are there to keep the hive tyrant alive. You will be putting all the wounds on them. Its a great waste of points. The Tyrant with wings is a waste. Turn 2 it will be shot down, they are a huge threat, its rare to see them in close combat. keep the guard with either whips, or talons and let the huge beat stick tyrant do the work.

Kind of an exaggeration, I've used winged tyrants to some effect, you just need to hug cover and pick your fights carefully. If he's running a Swarmlord I'd suggest whips personally. Also, normal Tyrants are hardly a "huge beat stick", they have 33% more damage output then a space marine captain with a relic blade, not exactly impressive. The tyrant is 50% killing power and 50% the buffs it brings. They are taken for the Hive Commander or Old Adversary upgrade mainly, so a winged tyrant + HC + gargoyle screen isn't too bad, but it is extremely fragile for the 250 points you are spending, but the same can be said for a Swarmlord and 3 Guard...it's fairly fragile for the 430ish points it costs.

2. Genestealers are pricey for something that isn't bolter proof. if they make it to close combat they are in fact beasts with toxin sacks, you might want to think of running 2-3 squads with some buffer units of gaunts to give them cover as you move up the field.

Genestealers are going to outpace gaunts pretty badly via fleet, and the fact they will be typically either infiltrating or outflanking. I agree they need to hug cover though, as they are horrendously vulnerable to bolter fire.

3. Trigon primes are the best for the points, Trigons are a lot better than Mawlocks. If given the chance run the Trigon. i like to give it toxin sacks so its re-rolling to hit and wound. it becomes nasty very quick.

Whelp...there goes your credibility. I don't think you are playing toxin-sacs right. Toxin-sacs lets you re-roll to wound if your strength is higher then their toughness, but you still wound on a 4+. So against T4 and less toxin-sacs is actually a damage output decrease, it's a marginal upgrade against T5, and a solid upgrade against T6+. Ideally the trygon should be dumping large squads of MeQ troops or dreadnoughts and leaving the monster hunting to toxin-genestealers, as that's a lot more efficient.

You run primes with toxin-sacs? That's 250 points each. I strongly suggest not taking the prime upgrade unless you badly need the synapse or shadows coverage. I run mine with just adrenal glands, as the bump to initiative 5 lets him take apart dreads unscathed, swing at the same time as most marine commanders, and cut apart normal MeQ squads without worrying about too many return attacks. The extra strength on the charge helps against T5 troops (like thunderwolves and crons for example) and crack Land Raiders and dreads easier.

And yes, Mawlocs are crumby. 170 points for 2-3 S6 AP2 blasts. I'd rather spend the points on 4 biovores and drop 4 large template a turn for 20-28 blasts a game, instead of 2-3. Each blast might be weaker, but there's almost 10 times as many. The only thing the mawloc has over the biovore is the fact it's much harder to kill, and it has a push mechanism with it's pop up attacks that you can creatively exploit sometimes.

PapaPiggy wrote:4. DO NOT RUN CARNIFEXES. They are the biggest point sink in the whole game. No other army has a greater waste of points than a carnifexe. It doesn't matter how you deck them out. They aren't worth taking. Its cool you can take a squad of them, but you can't wound allocate, they are 90 points base, you will be dumping all your points into something that isn't worth it. Take more trigons, they will do a lot more than a fex. Its like GW knew that every one would buy the fex model to convert so they went ahead and nerfed the fex so badly. If you are going to run them, keep them cheap and hide things behind them as they move up. so your opponent will either have to take out the fex and take the gene stealer hit, or hope to take out the gene stealers and get hit by the fex.

The hyperbole is strong with this one.

Carnifexes aren't as bad as he's saying. They're overpriced (they should really be about 100 points and not have scything talons by default), but the internet has hyped up the shortcomings of the poor Carnifex to ridiculous lengths. You're not going to be fighting the mythical Space Wolves like that can fire 30 missile per turn every time you play, or dual JOTWW Preists, or Trueborn Venom spam, or one of the other 'awesome netlists' you'll be told every single person playing runs.

However, a few things need to be considered. First, never count on catching a vehicle in combat with them. Without fleet, you simply won't do it unless you seriously outmaneuvre your opponent. Second, due to the above, if you want your carnifexes to accomplish anything, they need to be equipped for range. Third, depending on the competitiveness of your area, the only ranged weapons worth taking are probably going to be Devourers.

A Trygon is, point for point, a better choice than the Carnifex, but if you want to run a brood of them, there's ways to make it work. Venomthropes and Tervigons help.Facing down a brood of Carnifexes (even naked Screamer Killers) with a permanent 5+ cover from a Venomthrope (that will be completely hidden behind their bulk) and all 3 gaining FNP from a single Tervigon can be pretty discouraging. They are super tough at this point (since even those missile launchers people love will need to get through a 5+ cover save and a 4+ FNP save). They also can't be ignored, since if your opponent does, a world of hurt will hit him when they finally reach combat. They're also short. Like, really short. Any decent table will have enough cover to give a 4+ cover save to a brood, if not hide them entirely some turns.

Yes, Trygons are better than Carnifexes competitively. But Carnifexes aren't the auto lose dead weight the internet likes to tell people. You just need to make them work for you.

Mongooli wrote:

PapaPiggy wrote:
3. Trigon primes are the best for the points, Trigons are a lot better than Mawlocks. If given the chance run the Trigon. i like to give it toxin sacks so its re-rolling to hit and wound. it becomes nasty very quick.

TS on MCs is a waste, and kinda dumb. Trygons are str6 with power weapons, so they'll wound most troops on a 2+, why pay points to make it wound on 4+ instead?

Toxin sacs on a MC is worth it. Maybe you guys don't play against much eldar and chaos. Plague marines and wraiths to be exact. And you guys didn't read it when I said "I like to give it toxin sacs" with the number of ones that seem to get rolled and the high toughness models that show up, i have found that its a better idea for me and where i play.

Gene stealers are nice and can out flank, you have to tell the person you are play so if they stay about 13 inches away from the sides, you kinda screwed when they come in. Or you get screwed on the out flank roll and they aren't near anything.

Carnifexes are that bad. The god fexes of past days are gone. An old school screamer killer is better than a fex now. Try it out and see if you like it. With so many different play styles around the world and different groups playing you might not run into as many power gamers as i do. so it might work out better for you.

Maybe its because Im not fluent in Tyranid, but would toxin sacs still be a waste on a trygon? Even against a Plague marine, they are T5, and your Trygon is S6, sooooooo your still rolling 3s to wound?

PapaPiggy wrote:

Mongooli wrote:

PapaPiggy wrote:
3. Trigon primes are the best for the points, Trigons are a lot better than Mawlocks. If given the chance run the Trigon. i like to give it toxin sacks so its re-rolling to hit and wound. it becomes nasty very quick.

TS on MCs is a waste, and kinda dumb. Trygons are str6 with power weapons, so they'll wound most troops on a 2+, why pay points to make it wound on 4+ instead?

Toxin sacs on a MC is worth it. Maybe you guys don't play against much eldar and chaos. Plague marines and wraiths to be exact. And you guys didn't read it when I said "I like to give it toxin sacs" with the number of ones that seem to get rolled and the high toughness models that show up, i have found that its a better idea for me and where i play.

It might be good in your meta (I'd question that, but I don't know your normal opponents) but even then - S6 vs S5 is rolling 3s, which is ~66% chance and rerolling 4s (what toxin sacs to) is a 75% chance. 10 points to have a 9% better chance to wound one unit type, and a 9% worse chance to wound almost everything else? It just doesn't make sense.

And even then - it's not MCs in general, it might just be worth it on Trygons.

Gene stealers are nice and can out flank, you have to tell the person you are play so if they stay about 13 inches away from the sides, you kinda screwed when they come in. Or you get screwed on the out flank roll and they aren't near anything.

To completely avoid outflankers, you have to be 18" away from the board edge, on both sides, which leaves ~3 feet in the middle of the board. That by itself is awesome because it limits his opportunities.

Carnifexes are that bad. The god fexes of past days are gone. An old school screamer killer is better than a fex now. Try it out and see if you like it. With so many different play styles around the world and different groups playing you might not run into as many power gamers as i do. so it might work out better for you.

Power gamers don't run Toxin on Trygons.

KingCracker wrote:Maybe its because Im not fluent in Tyranid, but would toxin sacs still be a waste on a trygon? Even against a Plague marine, they are T5, and your Trygon is S6, sooooooo your still rolling 3s to wound?

No Toxin-sacs vs Toxin-sacs for trygon

T4; 2+ to wound (83%) vs 4+ with reroll (75%) = win for no TS
T5; 3+ to wound (66%) vs 4+ with reroll (75%) = win for TS
T6; 4+ to wound (50%) vs 4+ with reroll (75%) = win for TS
T7; 5+ to wound (33%) vs 4+ to wound (50%) = win for TS
T8; 6+ to wound (16%) vs 4+ to wound (50%) = win for TS

Of course, you have to factor in that T4 or less makes up about 95% of what you will be fighting, and adrenal glands on the charge makes it better against T5 then TS.

I'm of the opinion that unless you are expecting to face wall to wall T5+, then go with Adrenal Glands.

Primal Anarchist wrote:1st Question.

In fielding a more Close Combat oriented army, I was looking at possibly requisitioning the Swarmlord as my HQ choice, however, I was wondering if it would be useful to equip the Tyrant Guards defending him with Boneswords (seeing as they aren't Monstrous Creatures they don't automatically ignore Armor Saves) Would this be a useful investment, or would I be better off spending the points used for other creatures / upgrades?

For the Swarmlord, Lash Whips are easily the best upgrade you can give, Boneswords are expensive and overkill (Swarmlord should be able to squash anything by himself). I'd add the Lash Whips if you're facing Dark Eldar or Mephiston, although if you're writing a TAC list then the 5-15pt investment isn't much to ask for.

Primal Anarchist wrote:2nd Question

From all the troop choices, Genestealers seem to be significantly more useful due to their Brood Telepathy special rule (which allows them to not be subject to Instinctive Behavior rules) In the course of creating an army, how many Genestealer Broods would be effective to field in regards to Termagaunts and Hormagaunts.

I like to run 2 outflanking Broods of 10 with Toxin Sacs (so that they can get rerolls for their Rending!), which has been very successful for me. This is actually extra-effective when coupled with the aforementioned Swarmlord's reserves bonuses!

As for my other Troops, I would get 2 10-man Termagaunt broods and 2 Tervigons.

Primal Anarchist wrote:3rd Question.

I've read in some forums that Trigons are a much better choice than Mawlocs. I was just wondering if someone could explain why this is.

Mawlocs are underwhelming for their abilities. Trygons are more expensive, but do their job exponentially better.

Primal Anarchist wrote:4th and final Question,

Carnifex's can be used as Close-Combat Tank-Destroyers, or "Dakkafex's" sporting two Twin-Linked Devourers. There are more options than these but as I'd like to include at least one in my army, I was wondering what the best options would be for:
a) A more Close-Combat oriented Army
or
b) A more shooty army that needed more Firepower.

PapaPiggy is exaggerating, as others have said. Carnifexes aren't spectacular, but they can be a good unit in a non-competitive list. Running a brood of 3 (or 2 broods of 2) and screening them with Gargoyles (and/or hiding a pair of nearby Venomthropes behind the Fexes) is a very good idea. Dual-scythes and Devourers are really your best options, but I've had some successes with Crushing Claws in the past (unfortunately they are prohibitively expensive upgrades).

Carnage43 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Maybe its because Im not fluent in Tyranid, but would toxin sacs still be a waste on a trygon? Even against a Plague marine, they are T5, and your Trygon is S6, sooooooo your still rolling 3s to wound?

No Toxin-sacs vs Toxin-sacs for trygon

T4; 2+ to wound (83%) vs 4+ with reroll (75%) = win for no TS
T5; 3+ to wound (66%) vs 4+ with reroll (75%) = win for TS
T6; 4+ to wound (50%) vs 4+ with reroll (75%) = win for TS
T7; 5+ to wound (33%) vs 4+ to wound (50%) = win for TS
T8; 6+ to wound (16%) vs 4+ to wound (50%) = win for TS

Of course, you have to factor in that T4 or less makes up about 95% of what you will be fighting, and adrenal glands on the charge makes it better against T5 then TS.

I'm of the opinion that unless you are expecting to face wall to wall T5+, then go with Adrenal Glands.

So it gives rerolls? I didnt know that

KingCracker wrote:

Carnage43 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Maybe its because Im not fluent in Tyranid, but would toxin sacs still be a waste on a trygon? Even against a Plague marine, they are T5, and your Trygon is S6, sooooooo your still rolling 3s to wound?

*snip awesome chart for space*

Of course, you have to factor in that T4 or less makes up about 95% of what you will be fighting, and adrenal glands on the charge makes it better against T5 then TS.

I'm of the opinion that unless you are expecting to face wall to wall T5+, then go with Adrenal Glands.

So it gives rerolls? I didnt know that

Against models with your STR or lower, yes.

Page 42 BRB under Poisoned Weapons wrote:
In addition, if the Strength of the wielder is the same
or higher than the Toughness of the victim, the wielder
must re-roll failed rolls to wound in close combat

Mongooli wrote:

PapaPiggy wrote:
3. Trigon primes are the best for the points, Trigons are a lot better than Mawlocks. If given the chance run the Trigon. i like to give it toxin sacks so its re-rolling to hit and wound. it becomes nasty very quick.

TS on MCs is a waste, and kinda dumb. Trygons are str6 with power weapons, so they'll wound most troops on a 2+, why pay points to make it wound on 4+ instead?

Not to mention Trygons are dual scything talons so you reroll ALL misses, not just the 1's. Also toxin sacs on an mc, i BELIEVE the poison attack grants your target an armor save, whereas using the Trygons claws themselves, do not... so yes, Toxin sacs are a waste. Adrenal glands are nice to give you that I5 on a charge to hit before most things (marines are basically 4 all day every day... cept for those damn halberds from GKs....) and the Str 7 is a nice small boost on popping vehicles on a charge. (NOTE: Toxin sacs on an mc DOES bypass armor, there is just no point for it since str 6 typically wounds most things on 2+ ! )

Primal Anarchist - my best advice - read the codex. Memorize the codex. Memorize all special abilities and psychic powers and when they can be used. The tyranid codex, probably more than any other, is very synergistic with every unit in it. It's not a simple "look out for synapse!" to win, its using all of the key abilities. If you're facing heavy high powered weapons with low AP, you are going to realize not having a invul save on pretty much anything sucks, so you may want to invest in a venomthrope or two to grant a 5+ cover save to your army. I run it against my buddies list and it's saved my hive tyrant so many times.

If you run a swarmlord, guard w/ whips arent bad. If you run a tyrant, let him use the whip/bonesword and save the points on your guard and use them as sponges.

I've started collecting nids again , I used to play them exclusively after i got really tired of getting my 3rd ed. necron butt kicked, now with the new necron codex its all ive been playing and I have to say... I miss the swarm

But again, my best advice - learn the codex. Think of combos using the powers of your big bugs. Feel no pain from a Tervigon on a group of Genestealers w/ toxin sacs that are within 6" of a Hive Tyrant with Old Adversary to grant preferred enemy is one of the most lethal things you can do to an opponent

Cryage wrote:Also toxin sacs on an mc, i BELIEVE the poison attack grants your target an armor save, whereas using the Trygons claws themselves, do not...

False - All MC attacks ignore armor in CC.

rigeld2 wrote:

Cryage wrote:Also toxin sacs on an mc, i BELIEVE the poison attack grants your target an armor save, whereas using the Trygons claws themselves, do not...

False - All MC attacks ignore armor in CC.

Thanks for the clarification Wasn't 100% sure, I'll mod my post to avoid confusion

WOW!. Not being able to use my computer for several days and then coming back to find a vast plethora of information here is great. Thank you everyone for your contributions. From what I've picked up from all your sugesstions (and in regards to my questions)

If I were fielding the the Swarmlord (which I think I will end up doing) It is more beneficial to take Lash whips on the Tyrant Guard for the I1 instead of Boneswords as it would be a waste of points.

Thank you Andilus Greatsword for your contribution for my second question.
If I field any genestealers I'll definitely be giving them the Toxin Sacs biomorph. Rerolling to wound rolls looks very good, and the suggestion of 2 x 10 man broods used for outflanking is definitely a solid plan that I will use when I'm playing. I'm not sure how many Gaunts I'll have in my army but when I post my army list I'll get some feedback then

Thank you ALL for your comments about fielding Trygons (in particular Trygon Primes for the synapse) instead of Mawlocs. I just got too caught up by that cool Burrow special move. Since I wrote this thread I found another forum which pretty much said it was a 1-2 use per game gimmick which wasn't really effective.

Through the comments, I think I may abstain from having a Carnifex, as they do drain a lot of points for their biomorphs and various upgrades.
After I learn more about the game I may add one in for my army.

Once again thanks for all of your contributions!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I usually don't double post but I thought of something else. My friend already has a Tau army and I was wondering if you guys could advise me some hints as to how I can beat him :L

rigeld2 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Carnage43 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Maybe its because Im not fluent in Tyranid, but would toxin sacs still be a waste on a trygon? Even against a Plague marine, they are T5, and your Trygon is S6, sooooooo your still rolling 3s to wound?

*snip awesome chart for space*

Of course, you have to factor in that T4 or less makes up about 95% of what you will be fighting, and adrenal glands on the charge makes it better against T5 then TS.

I'm of the opinion that unless you are expecting to face wall to wall T5+, then go with Adrenal Glands.

So it gives rerolls? I didnt know that

Against models with your STR or lower, yes.

Page 42 BRB under Poisoned Weapons wrote:
In addition, if the Strength of the wielder is the same
or higher than the Toughness of the victim, the wielder
must re-roll failed rolls to wound in close combat

Yea I went checked the rules just for kicks and saw that little number. I could see that being useful depending on what your fighting against

It's why toxin sacs are the best upgrade you can give genestealers.
Re-rolling rending attacks? Yes please.

Question with toxin sacs and rending... If you roll a 6 on the toxin sacs/poison attack, do you still benefit from the rending claws? I assume yes....

Yes. Tyranids explicitly gain the benefits of all biomorphs in CC.

I'm a bit late to this but for what it's worth:

1. Personally I wouldn't bother, tyrant guard for me are pretty much defensive. They soak up the damage and ameliorate the peoblem of nids (except zoanthropes) having no invlunerable saves. If you are using the swarmlord he will mince most adversaries in cc, with useful backup from the guard.

2. Stealers are good but weirdly I often find that they disappoint. Although technically they are deadly with massive initiative and all the relevant combat stats. However, somehow mine always seem to get killed in stupid ways, such as losing in cc to Tau firewarriors (I know but it really did happen once!). Also the brood telepathy is good but they are not fearless unless they are within synapse, so they can be victims of sweeping advances. I would recommend a broodlord, not terribly expensive and very, very hard. Personally I like large mobs of gaunts, depending on the opponent. Termies are good general cannon-fodder but not likely to kill anything except IG or Tau. Devilgaunts are expensive but a big gang put down a fearful amount of fire. Hormies are IMHO underrated, 20 of them with toxin sacs can make a horrible mess of most things. I love throwing them at terminators, 30 of them deliver 90 attacks on the charge, rerolling ones and with toxin sacs 4+ to wound.

3. The mawloc is a pretty worthless unit tbh. Like all units it has its uses but it is not a very worthwhile unit all told. If its burrow attack comes off it is fearsome but it is very hit and miss. Otherwise it is just not as potent as a trygon. I like the prime because the extra 40 points or whatver seems worth the extra potentcy in shooting and the synapse.

As for carnifexes, for me they have a place. I find that they work as great soakers for fire, especially used with hormies as they will distract the enemy from the hormies. They are without doubt great anti-armour. However, the lack of invulnerable saves mean they are likely to be shot apart by heavy weapons.

I like a balanced nid army with a good variety of units. Hive guard are invaluable for their shooting and although many people decry them I like biovores, simply because of the long range support that they give for not a lot of points. Would think twice about them against high T opponents though. I also like nid warriors a lot, I know people think they are easy to kill but I find that large units are very hard to stop due to their sheer numbers of wounds.

Isengard wrote:and although many people decry them I like biovores, simply because of the long range support that they give for not a lot of points. Would think twice about them against high T opponents though.

I don't think I've seen anyone decry Biovores outside of their lack of versatility. They are fantastic long ranged anti infantry. Unfortunatrly, anti-infantry is what Tyranids do best. Everything does it in some way. With the removal of melta spores, they lost their utility against vehicles, and eat up a heavy support slot from something that does do anti-tank. If they just gave melta spores back, I'm sure Biovores would see more use.

As others have said, if you are running the swarmlord, LW on your guards and masses of Toxin stealers taking the advantage of outflanking rerolls from swarmy is pretty strong. Stealers are pretty fragile so you really need to be careful how you use them. I would generally advise going with normal Trygons, either with AG or naked, if you are running a stealer shock list. Since very little on the board needs synapse, it's kinda silly to pay the extra points for it, and the extra shooting is fairly worthless as you should pretty much always run with them. A cheap unit of gaunts or gargs to run in front of Swarmy and his guard would also be advisable as it will give the unit cover saves (particularly useful when you consider that swarmy will be a prime target).