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Yeah unfortunately there isn’t a way any more to guarantee a first turn charge unless you’re ok with starting on the board (and this is a bad idea if you go second)
My current list revolves around characters protected by a max plaguebearer squad (who can now have +1 invuln and auto pass morale if need be due to the increase in CP for batallions) and basically just waiting until turn 2 for everything (which I usually did for some things anyhow)
Hmm. Land Raider Terminator delivery just got more attractive, on account of WT shutdown... can we put them in a Termite?
Automatically Appended Next Post: So I’m thinking about running a 2K Epidemius list. Things I like:
- Epidemius, Nurglings, Fleshy Abundance, Loci
- Oblits, Prescience
- PBC, MBD, Fugaris Helm Arch Contaminator DP - Trees for Oblits to hide from the rain under
I’m not sure if I’d expand my WB Oblits or do an Iron Warriors Spearhead. Ignores cover seems like it could be a bit niche, but then if I come up against a mirror list it would be a massive asset.
Only thing is, this means four objectives, and I’m starting to get invited along to ITC tourneys. If I’m going to build a competitive list, it’d be nice for it to be compatible. And four detachments ain’t hitting that.
Could take Horticulous, and plant the tree? It’d give me some more flexibility as to where to drop, and his big footprint plus competent melee is ok synergy so he’s not a total tax.
Alternatively, I could wave goodbye to VotLW, Familiars (I really like putting Warptime coverage in a sector my opponent had thought safe), Legion trait, etc, and put the Marines in a HERETIC ASTARTES Detachment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/23 09:41:45
Tried MSU biker units over the weekend, with T2 DS units. Warp Time is different but not useless.
The bikers tied up Guardian Squads while Obliterators and Terminators shot up Wave Serpents. I had a couple large squads of cultists marching up the board with Abaddon for support.
It was interesting from a tactical perspective, I'd wanted to try a list like this since before the FAQ. First wave of bikes tied up screens, second wave of DS units blew up a few things and the Termis took a charge once the bikers were dead. Abaddon and his merry scum came up in the rear to finish things off. I had one Sorcerer who deep struck with the Terminators and he did use Warp Time on Cultists to make a key charge possible. Nowhere near as powerful as it would have been on a deep striking unit, it's more a clutch tactic.
The game was a loss for me, but I never had the sense this wasn't working. Felt like I needed to do more with bikers / fast attack units to better screen the deep strike units. If I had another round of shooting with combi plasma, or if the Obliterators could have come in after I killed a couple screens to hit the right targets, things would have been different. My opponent was able to fall back out of range of the Obliterators a couple times because they weren't so close to their table edge.
So, pacing? Feels like that's what I was struggling with. More bikers and more anti-horde.
I'll agree that Terminators have got weaker, but in certain matched play and narrative play missions where the objective is more important, having your Terminators as some ambushing big boys is useful. In straight up death death missions, yes they are far weaker.
Besides obliterators which are softly nerfed from the new ruleset, what are the other competitive options for significant ranged fire support? Cultist spam also took a hit. I am using pinks to clear chaff (to great effect) but having some difficulties around MEQ and greater equivalents particularly when rocking -2 to hit. Fire raptor gunship has also now gone up in cost.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/23 17:59:07
orkswubwub wrote: Besides obliterators which are softly nerfed from the new ruleset, what are the other competitive options for significant ranged fire support? Cultist spam also took a hit. I am using pinks to clear chaff (to great effect) but having some difficulties around MEQ and greater equivalents particularly when rocking -2 to hit. Fire raptor gunship has also now gone up in cost.
Assault Claws took a pretty huge hit. That was one of the best options for people trying to make World Eaters armies work.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
orkswubwub wrote: Besides obliterators which are softly nerfed from the new ruleset, what are the other competitive options for significant ranged fire support? Cultist spam also took a hit. I am using pinks to clear chaff (to great effect) but having some difficulties around MEQ and greater equivalents particularly when rocking -2 to hit. Fire raptor gunship has also now gone up in cost.
How are the pinks working out now you can’t DS turn one? Do you just deploy them normally?
orkswubwub wrote: Besides obliterators which are softly nerfed from the new ruleset, what are the other competitive options for significant ranged fire support? Cultist spam also took a hit. I am using pinks to clear chaff (to great effect) but having some difficulties around MEQ and greater equivalents particularly when rocking -2 to hit. Fire raptor gunship has also now gone up in cost.
Assault Claws took a pretty huge hit. That was one of the best options for people trying to make World Eaters armies work.
Yup. :( Not the end of the world, but really does change everything with my list.
Did someone here ever put an Combiplasma on a Rhino with Zerkers in it, so he could drive 12" shoot Plasma overheat/explode and pop Zerkers 3,5" from the Rhino.
That would be a lucky 15,5" move with the Zerkers so they could make a 8" charge... Or is it just a half drunk idea...
Skullphoquer wrote: Did someone here ever put an Combiplasma on a Rhino with Zerkers in it, so he could drive 12" shoot Plasma overheat/explode and pop Zerkers 3,5" from the Rhino.
That would be a lucky 15,5" move with the Zerkers so they could make a 8" charge... Or is it just a half drunk idea...
It could work... but, it'd only happen ever 1/6 time (or 11/36 in rapid-fire), you'd lose some Zerkers in the explosion and you'd no longer have anything to soak up Overwatch.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
Skullphoquer wrote: Did someone here ever put an Combiplasma on a Rhino with Zerkers in it, so he could drive 12" shoot Plasma overheat/explode and pop Zerkers 3,5" from the Rhino.
That would be a lucky 15,5" move with the Zerkers so they could make a 8" charge... Or is it just a half drunk idea...
What
have
you
done
Winter FAQ’s gonna have a lot to deal with
Automatically Appended Next Post: Warptime the Rhino and you’re getting two shots
Find a target with hit modifiers and that’s 55% chance of a successful fail
GG Jormungandr
Automatically Appended Next Post: This will be best abused with a means to goad opponent into deploying a screening unit
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/04/23 19:24:38
Skullphoquer wrote: Did someone here ever put an Combiplasma on a Rhino with Zerkers in it, so he could drive 12" shoot Plasma overheat/explode and pop Zerkers 3,5" from the Rhino. That would be a lucky 15,5" move with the Zerkers so they could make a 8" charge... Or is it just a half drunk idea...
It could work... but, it'd only happen ever 1/6 time (or 11/36 in rapid-fire), you'd lose some Zerkers in the explosion and you'd no longer have anything to soak up Overwatch.
Remember he could fire both barrels on the Comb-Plasma, making it 33% of the time for just one dice, or almost 50% of the time on two dice.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/23 19:24:46
Skullphoquer wrote: Did someone here ever put an Combiplasma on a Rhino with Zerkers in it, so he could drive 12" shoot Plasma overheat/explode and pop Zerkers 3,5" from the Rhino.
That would be a lucky 15,5" move with the Zerkers so they could make a 8" charge... Or is it just a half drunk idea...
It could work... but, it'd only happen ever 1/6 time (or 11/36 in rapid-fire), you'd lose some Zerkers in the explosion and you'd no longer have anything to soak up Overwatch.
Remember he could fire both barrels on the Comb-Plasma, making it 33% of the time for just one dice, or almost 50% of the time on two dice.
Good point.
Go ahead then, make suicide-Rhino-rush the new meta!
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
Skullphoquer wrote: Did someone here ever put an Combiplasma on a Rhino with Zerkers in it, so he could drive 12" shoot Plasma overheat/explode and pop Zerkers 3,5" from the Rhino.
That would be a lucky 15,5" move with the Zerkers so they could make a 8" charge... Or is it just a half drunk idea...
It could work... but, it'd only happen ever 1/6 time (or 11/36 in rapid-fire), you'd lose some Zerkers in the explosion and you'd no longer have anything to soak up Overwatch.
Remember he could fire both barrels on the Comb-Plasma, making it 33% of the time for just one dice, or almost 50% of the time on two dice.
Good point.
Go ahead then, make suicide-Rhino-rush the new meta!
I weep to have participated in the genesis of such glory.
orkswubwub wrote: Besides obliterators which are softly nerfed from the new ruleset, what are the other competitive options for significant ranged fire support? Cultist spam also took a hit. I am using pinks to clear chaff (to great effect) but having some difficulties around MEQ and greater equivalents particularly when rocking -2 to hit. Fire raptor gunship has also now gone up in cost.
How are the pinks working out now you can’t DS turn one? Do you just deploy them normally?
Depends what I'm against and their deployment. I try to keep pinks to the end to decide. If they are putting a lot on the line and it seems I have fewer drops then I will put em on the table and be able to hit fairly easily with the 30 inch threat range (more if I advance). If they are running 10x3 zerkers in Alpha deployment or IG with 50+ mortors I will put them in deepstrike and either come down turn 1 if they move in fast (genestealers etc.) or turn 2 if they are staying back (IG etc.). Has worked well for me so far with 30 pinks, daemonspark and flickering flames. The flickering + DS combo does wonders against t3 type models.
This is a hilarious development. They’ll have to fix the stupid overheat rule to prevent it, no? Or maybe prevent passengers from charging when their transport blows up. The latter seems more likely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/23 22:44:01
Right. Here’s the best iteration I’ve been able to come up with:
- Death Guard units: flying Daemon Prince (or Mort), Squad in Rhino with Combi-Plasma (Possessed are good for Epidemius larks, Spewer/Belcher squad is also good, Poxwalkers could have had absolutely hilarious potential prior to their nerf)
- CSM units: at least two Rhinos containing units with Icons of Wrath; four seem feasible and ideal. Warpflamer Rubrics and certain Chosen builds are good as well
- Any Legion units: three Vindicators (can you see where this is leading?); a Warptimer (Daemon keyword is handy, for access to the CD rerolls Stratagem)
- Whatever we’re meant to call a Herald of Tzeentch these days, with Gaze of Fate (this can be summoned, but if you’re getting clever with Stratagems then a Daemon Detachment is an asset)
- Buckets of CP
If the stars align, and enemy units deploy in your face, the following can contribute:
- deployed Kharybdis (now, hear me out)
- Lord of Change/Ahriman/Magnus getting closer with Infernal Gateway (can double up as your Warptimer, but ideally that model is keeping away from DTW coverage; likewise, Gazer of Fate wants to be bunkering)
Right. You deploy with the four Rhinos up tight. Right behind them, there’s the plasma rhino and Daemon Prince. The Vindicators deploy in a fairly dispersed fashion, hogging cover is possible. They don’t need to be in range of the enemy turn one. They just need need to rendezvous.
I can’t believe I’m typing this.
If you’re going ahead with Kharybdises and Infernal Gateway, they should be flanking this formation.
Warp help me, this is terrible. If it’s any consolation, these are mostly decent enough units that it won’t be terrible when this gets shut down.
You Advance with each of the front Rhinos. If you didn’t get first turn, don’t worry. There should be enough left to make this work. Maybe they’ll prioritise the scary gribbly Kharybdis you threw into this train wreck.
I am not speaking metaphorically with that last idiom.
The four Rhinos arrange themselves into two columns. Precision doesn’t matter too much. The important thing is that they are all touched by some prepared circular templates that will bewilder your opponent at first. The dimensions of these templates will become clear very shortly.
I should stop here. I won’t.
You know in the Two Towers, when the Uruk-Hai Berzerker does his death run with the torch? The Plasma Rhino does this, with a cheeky Warptime to nudge it as far forwards as possible with the other Rhinos all within 6” and a valid target within 12”.
If you didn’t lose first turn and a Vindicator, your opponent will probably suss what’s going on when you move the three of them and check they’re all within 24” of a point that is 3” away from the four Rhinos. (If there’s an enemy Spore Mine or Nurgling in there, more power to you.) They can Advance for this - though if you roll enough 6’s, you might want to have them able to shoot. The Daemon Prince flies up. He’s at least 6” away from the lead Rhino’s final position, and within 7” of the other Rhinos.
SHUT DOWN MY WARPTIME TERMINATORS, WILL YOU? *shakes fist in general direction of Nottingham*
With the pieces in play, you rapid fire your gambit from the Psychic phase after anything else you’re doing. If you’ve got a Daemons Detachment, re-rolls on casting is a good call.
This has so many moving parts, it will never work. Will it?
Start with Gaze. You want a spare reroll to hand. Then Warptime the Rhino. You’re not moving a unit, here. You’re chambering a shell. If you’ve got the opportunity, hit something with Gateway, so as to inflict as much splash damage on your Rhinos as possible. It does not matter if the enemy is a worthwhile target. You weren’t aiming at them.
At this point, you must maintain clarity in your composure, so that your opponent is absolutely clear that you are following the letter of the rules to the letter. But you must also execute a rapid flow of actions, so as to shock and awe them with your Kamikaze bravado.
As the Shooting Phase commences, any Kharybdis that are able to legally hit a Rhino do so. Again, it does not matter what enemy units they target to make this technically legal. Then, the Plasma Rhino overcharges and gives something both barrels. If you’ve got a target with a -1 to be hit ability, you are laughing. Ghostkeel battlesuit? Perfect. Throw the requisite rerolls needed to make it pop.
I play Putrid Detonation. My destroyed Nurgle Vehicle automatically explodes.
Each Rhino takes D6 Mortal Wounds. The inhabitants of the Rhino jump out, at within spitting distance of the enemy.
I play Linebreaker Bombardment. Every unit within 3” of this point in the middle of my cluster of Rhinos takes 3D3W on the roll of a 4+.
Start making your checks starting with the most heavily damaged Rhino. If you miss, use a re-roll. If you roll low damage and leave it with 1W, consider a re-reroll. Repeat for each one in turn.
Execute these actions clearly but quickly. Your opponent doesn’t think a squad of Berzerkers can reach their lines on the first turn. You want the horror of their situation to hit them like a train.
When the smoke clears, if there’s a Rhino or two with low Wounds, you can try to pop them by the Daemon Prince using Nurgle’s Rot. YES, I WENT THERE. 6CP TO KILL MY OWN UNITS. SAY SOMETHING. You’ve got an alright chance of one of the Rhinos exploding on its own volition, adding to the fun.
Best case scenario, you’ve got forty Possessed and Berzerkers within easy charge distances, and an opponent looking back at deepstriking Kraken Swarmlord & Genestealers like Batman remembering Joker’s innocuous first prank.
I’m sorry.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also: if the enemy army moved forwards with some short to medium ranged gunline, you might be able to drop the advancing on the Rhinos. That way, you can declare charges on loads of enemy units with your 1W surviving Rhinos. Dare them to shoot you. This has the effect of continuing the confusion and shock and awe. Ten minutes ago, they laughed at you as you forfeit First Blood with that self-terminating Rhino. Bwahaha, the fools, etc
General bonus: these are all pretty good units, and if the whole plan goes south, you can always just blast away with Vindicators as your Rhinos full of madmen reach the enemy the only fashioned way
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also! Don’t forget to fire the Combi-Bolter the first Rhino comes with, and the Combi-Bolters of any Rhinos that didn’t Advance. It’d be a shame to waste them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay, this ludicrous proposal aside, I think I am going to pack Plasma on my shock Troops’ rhinos and take opportunity shots to try to execute a disembarkation where it would be of benefit.
Also, to really conceal your intentions, maybe conspicuously put a Warptimer on the other side of the board - perhaps looking like they’re going to boost that Kharybdis (actually, this is a pretty good thing to do anyway) and use a Familiar to replace an innocuous Warptime where you need it to be.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 03:33:17
I was just thinking combi bolters are pretty cheap and efficient for just 2 points, and every champion can take them. A chosen unit can take a lot of those too. And brigade now gives 12 CP which is a lot! One brigade can give you 15 CP to play with in total, which is usually more than enough for most purposes.
I was thinking of how viable a world eaters army with a brigade of lots of MSU berserker units would be? Each core troop berserker unit would be the minimum 5 man so that I don’t need to worry about morale. This also allows me to equip as many as 6 squads. Each squad has a Champion with a power maul so that I can handle light vehicles with 8 str 7 attacks and benefit from the death to the false emperor. The same champion will also have a combi bolter so can pump out 4 shots at double tap range. Combined with a grenade and pistol shots, that a decent amount of dakka from one MSU berserker squad. And 3 Rhinos would be able to take in these 6 squads of berserkers.
Fast and heavy choices for the brigade can be cheap or simple. (Havocs and spawn, or havocs and bikes even if so inclined). The elite choice I was thinking can be more MSU chosen with combi bolters. So 3 elite choices of 5 chosen with combi bolters means another 15 of these combi bolters. So, the short range dakka coming out of all the MSU squads when they erupt from their Rhinos is actually going to be pretty decent. If we are talking about 5 Rhinos with double combi bolters, 3 chosen squads and 6 berserker squads, that’s 31 combi bolters in total. So, in the turn I unload everything, I can also shoot up to 124 combi bolter shots at double tap range. Doesn’t even count the 9 potential grenades I can chuck from 9 squads of men.
I calculated. 6 squads of zerkers with the setup I described above, and 3 squads of chosen and 5 rhinos would add up to 1150 points. And so we will have 850 point for 3 characters, 3 fast attack and 3 heavy support. Sounds reasonable, right? What do you think?
(If we want to use tide of traitors. We can have 5 squads of zerkers, 3 squads of chosen squeezed into 4 rhinos, and then one big squad of 40 cultists. So, the point cost also works out to about 1150. )
Right. Here’s the best iteration I’ve been able to come up with:
- Death Guard units: flying Daemon Prince (or Mort), Squad in Rhino with Combi-Plasma (Possessed are good for Epidemius larks, Spewer/Belcher squad is also good, Poxwalkers could have had absolutely hilarious potential prior to their nerf)
- CSM units: at least two Rhinos containing units with Icons of Wrath; four seem feasible and ideal. Warpflamer Rubrics and certain Chosen builds are good as well
- Any Legion units: three Vindicators (can you see where this is leading?); a Warptimer (Daemon keyword is handy, for access to the CD rerolls Stratagem)
- Whatever we’re meant to call a Herald of Tzeentch these days, with Gaze of Fate (this can be summoned, but if you’re getting clever with Stratagems then a Daemon Detachment is an asset)
- Buckets of CP
If the stars align, and enemy units deploy in your face, the following can contribute:
- deployed Kharybdis (now, hear me out)
- Lord of Change/Ahriman/Magnus getting closer with Infernal Gateway (can double up as your Warptimer, but ideally that model is keeping away from DTW coverage; likewise, Gazer of Fate wants to be bunkering)
Right. You deploy with the four Rhinos up tight. Right behind them, there’s the plasma rhino and Daemon Prince. The Vindicators deploy in a fairly dispersed fashion, hogging cover is possible. They don’t need to be in range of the enemy turn one. They just need need to rendezvous.
I can’t believe I’m typing this.
If you’re going ahead with Kharybdises and Infernal Gateway, they should be flanking this formation.
Warp help me, this is terrible. If it’s any consolation, these are mostly decent enough units that it won’t be terrible when this gets shut down.
You Advance with each of the front Rhinos. If you didn’t get first turn, don’t worry. There should be enough left to make this work. Maybe they’ll prioritise the scary gribbly Kharybdis you threw into this train wreck.
I am not speaking metaphorically with that last idiom.
The four Rhinos arrange themselves into two columns. Precision doesn’t matter too much. The important thing is that they are all touched by some prepared circular templates that will bewilder your opponent at first. The dimensions of these templates will become clear very shortly.
I should stop here. I won’t.
You know in the Two Towers, when the Uruk-Hai Berzerker does his death run with the torch? The Plasma Rhino does this, with a cheeky Warptime to nudge it as far forwards as possible with the other Rhinos all within 6” and a valid target within 12”.
If you didn’t lose first turn and a Vindicator, your opponent will probably suss what’s going on when you move the three of them and check they’re all within 24” of a point that is 3” away from the four Rhinos. (If there’s an enemy Spore Mine or Nurgling in there, more power to you.) They can Advance for this - though if you roll enough 6’s, you might want to have them able to shoot. The Daemon Prince flies up. He’s at least 6” away from the lead Rhino’s final position, and within 7” of the other Rhinos.
SHUT DOWN MY WARPTIME TERMINATORS, WILL YOU? *shakes fist in general direction of Nottingham*
With the pieces in play, you rapid fire your gambit from the Psychic phase after anything else you’re doing. If you’ve got a Daemons Detachment, re-rolls on casting is a good call.
This has so many moving parts, it will never work. Will it?
Start with Gaze. You want a spare reroll to hand. Then Warptime the Rhino. You’re not moving a unit, here. You’re chambering a shell. If you’ve got the opportunity, hit something with Gateway, so as to inflict as much splash damage on your Rhinos as possible. It does not matter if the enemy is a worthwhile target. You weren’t aiming at them.
At this point, you must maintain clarity in your composure, so that your opponent is absolutely clear that you are following the letter of the rules to the letter. But you must also execute a rapid flow of actions, so as to shock and awe them with your Kamikaze bravado.
As the Shooting Phase commences, any Kharybdis that are able to legally hit a Rhino do so. Again, it does not matter what enemy units they target to make this technically legal. Then, the Plasma Rhino overcharges and gives something both barrels. If you’ve got a target with a -1 to be hit ability, you are laughing. Ghostkeel battlesuit? Perfect. Throw the requisite rerolls needed to make it pop.
I play Putrid Detonation. My destroyed Nurgle Vehicle automatically explodes.
Each Rhino takes D6 Mortal Wounds. The inhabitants of the Rhino jump out, at within spitting distance of the enemy.
I play Linebreaker Bombardment. Every unit within 3” of this point in the middle of my cluster of Rhinos takes 3D3W on the roll of a 4+.
Start making your checks starting with the most heavily damaged Rhino. If you miss, use a re-roll. If you roll low damage and leave it with 1W, consider a re-reroll. Repeat for each one in turn.
Execute these actions clearly but quickly. Your opponent doesn’t think a squad of Berzerkers can reach their lines on the first turn. You want the horror of their situation to hit them like a train.
When the smoke clears, if there’s a Rhino or two with low Wounds, you can try to pop them by the Daemon Prince using Nurgle’s Rot. YES, I WENT THERE. 6CP TO KILL MY OWN UNITS. SAY SOMETHING. You’ve got an alright chance of one of the Rhinos exploding on its own volition, adding to the fun.
Best case scenario, you’ve got forty Possessed and Berzerkers within easy charge distances, and an opponent looking back at deepstriking Kraken Swarmlord & Genestealers like Batman remembering Joker’s innocuous first prank.
I’m sorry.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also: if the enemy army moved forwards with some short to medium ranged gunline, you might be able to drop the advancing on the Rhinos. That way, you can declare charges on loads of enemy units with your 1W surviving Rhinos. Dare them to shoot you. This has the effect of continuing the confusion and shock and awe. Ten minutes ago, they laughed at you as you forfeit First Blood with that self-terminating Rhino. Bwahaha, the fools, etc
General bonus: these are all pretty good units, and if the whole plan goes south, you can always just blast away with Vindicators as your Rhinos full of madmen reach the enemy the only fashioned way
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also! Don’t forget to fire the Combi-Bolter the first Rhino comes with, and the Combi-Bolters of any Rhinos that didn’t Advance. It’d be a shame to waste them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay, this ludicrous proposal aside, I think I am going to pack Plasma on my shock Troops’ rhinos and take opportunity shots to try to execute a disembarkation where it would be of benefit.
Also, to really conceal your intentions, maybe conspicuously put a Warptimer on the other side of the board - perhaps looking like they’re going to boost that Kharybdis (actually, this is a pretty good thing to do anyway) and use a Familiar to replace an innocuous Warptime where you need it to be.
Right. Here’s the best iteration I’ve been able to come up with:
- Death Guard units: flying Daemon Prince (or Mort), Squad in Rhino with Combi-Plasma (Possessed are good for Epidemius larks, Spewer/Belcher squad is also good, Poxwalkers could have had absolutely hilarious potential prior to their nerf)
- CSM units: at least two Rhinos containing units with Icons of Wrath; four seem feasible and ideal. Warpflamer Rubrics and certain Chosen builds are good as well
- Any Legion units: three Vindicators (can you see where this is leading?); a Warptimer (Daemon keyword is handy, for access to the CD rerolls Stratagem)
- Whatever we’re meant to call a Herald of Tzeentch these days, with Gaze of Fate (this can be summoned, but if you’re getting clever with Stratagems then a Daemon Detachment is an asset)
- Buckets of CP
If the stars align, and enemy units deploy in your face, the following can contribute:
- deployed Kharybdis (now, hear me out)
- Lord of Change/Ahriman/Magnus getting closer with Infernal Gateway (can double up as your Warptimer, but ideally that model is keeping away from DTW coverage; likewise, Gazer of Fate wants to be bunkering)
Right. You deploy with the four Rhinos up tight. Right behind them, there’s the plasma rhino and Daemon Prince. The Vindicators deploy in a fairly dispersed fashion, hogging cover is possible. They don’t need to be in range of the enemy turn one. They just need need to rendezvous.
I can’t believe I’m typing this.
If you’re going ahead with Kharybdises and Infernal Gateway, they should be flanking this formation.
Warp help me, this is terrible. If it’s any consolation, these are mostly decent enough units that it won’t be terrible when this gets shut down.
You Advance with each of the front Rhinos. If you didn’t get first turn, don’t worry. There should be enough left to make this work. Maybe they’ll prioritise the scary gribbly Kharybdis you threw into this train wreck.
I am not speaking metaphorically with that last idiom.
The four Rhinos arrange themselves into two columns. Precision doesn’t matter too much. The important thing is that they are all touched by some prepared circular templates that will bewilder your opponent at first. The dimensions of these templates will become clear very shortly.
I should stop here. I won’t.
You know in the Two Towers, when the Uruk-Hai Berzerker does his death run with the torch? The Plasma Rhino does this, with a cheeky Warptime to nudge it as far forwards as possible with the other Rhinos all within 6” and a valid target within 12”.
If you didn’t lose first turn and a Vindicator, your opponent will probably suss what’s going on when you move the three of them and check they’re all within 24” of a point that is 3” away from the four Rhinos. (If there’s an enemy Spore Mine or Nurgling in there, more power to you.) They can Advance for this - though if you roll enough 6’s, you might want to have them able to shoot. The Daemon Prince flies up. He’s at least 6” away from the lead Rhino’s final position, and within 7” of the other Rhinos.
SHUT DOWN MY WARPTIME TERMINATORS, WILL YOU? *shakes fist in general direction of Nottingham*
With the pieces in play, you rapid fire your gambit from the Psychic phase after anything else you’re doing. If you’ve got a Daemons Detachment, re-rolls on casting is a good call.
This has so many moving parts, it will never work. Will it?
Start with Gaze. You want a spare reroll to hand. Then Warptime the Rhino. You’re not moving a unit, here. You’re chambering a shell. If you’ve got the opportunity, hit something with Gateway, so as to inflict as much splash damage on your Rhinos as possible. It does not matter if the enemy is a worthwhile target. You weren’t aiming at them.
At this point, you must maintain clarity in your composure, so that your opponent is absolutely clear that you are following the letter of the rules to the letter. But you must also execute a rapid flow of actions, so as to shock and awe them with your Kamikaze bravado.
As the Shooting Phase commences, any Kharybdis that are able to legally hit a Rhino do so. Again, it does not matter what enemy units they target to make this technically legal. Then, the Plasma Rhino overcharges and gives something both barrels. If you’ve got a target with a -1 to be hit ability, you are laughing. Ghostkeel battlesuit? Perfect. Throw the requisite rerolls needed to make it pop.
I play Putrid Detonation. My destroyed Nurgle Vehicle automatically explodes.
Each Rhino takes D6 Mortal Wounds. The inhabitants of the Rhino jump out, at within spitting distance of the enemy.
I play Linebreaker Bombardment. Every unit within 3” of this point in the middle of my cluster of Rhinos takes 3D3W on the roll of a 4+.
Start making your checks starting with the most heavily damaged Rhino. If you miss, use a re-roll. If you roll low damage and leave it with 1W, consider a re-reroll. Repeat for each one in turn.
Execute these actions clearly but quickly. Your opponent doesn’t think a squad of Berzerkers can reach their lines on the first turn. You want the horror of their situation to hit them like a train.
When the smoke clears, if there’s a Rhino or two with low Wounds, you can try to pop them by the Daemon Prince using Nurgle’s Rot. YES, I WENT THERE. 6CP TO KILL MY OWN UNITS. SAY SOMETHING. You’ve got an alright chance of one of the Rhinos exploding on its own volition, adding to the fun.
Best case scenario, you’ve got forty Possessed and Berzerkers within easy charge distances, and an opponent looking back at deepstriking Kraken Swarmlord & Genestealers like Batman remembering Joker’s innocuous first prank.
I’m sorry.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also: if the enemy army moved forwards with some short to medium ranged gunline, you might be able to drop the advancing on the Rhinos. That way, you can declare charges on loads of enemy units with your 1W surviving Rhinos. Dare them to shoot you. This has the effect of continuing the confusion and shock and awe. Ten minutes ago, they laughed at you as you forfeit First Blood with that self-terminating Rhino. Bwahaha, the fools, etc
General bonus: these are all pretty good units, and if the whole plan goes south, you can always just blast away with Vindicators as your Rhinos full of madmen reach the enemy the only fashioned way
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also! Don’t forget to fire the Combi-Bolter the first Rhino comes with, and the Combi-Bolters of any Rhinos that didn’t Advance. It’d be a shame to waste them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay, this ludicrous proposal aside, I think I am going to pack Plasma on my shock Troops’ rhinos and take opportunity shots to try to execute a disembarkation where it would be of benefit.
Also, to really conceal your intentions, maybe conspicuously put a Warptimer on the other side of the board - perhaps looking like they’re going to boost that Kharybdis (actually, this is a pretty good thing to do anyway) and use a Familiar to replace an innocuous Warptime where you need it to be.
lindsay40k wrote: Right. Here’s the best iteration I’ve been able to come up with:
- Death Guard units: flying Daemon Prince (or Mort), Squad in Rhino with Combi-Plasma (Possessed are good for Epidemius larks, Spewer/Belcher squad is also good, Poxwalkers could have had absolutely hilarious potential prior to their nerf)
- CSM units: at least two Rhinos containing units with Icons of Wrath; four seem feasible and ideal. Warpflamer Rubrics and certain Chosen builds are good as well
- Any Legion units: three Vindicators (can you see where this is leading?); a Warptimer (Daemon keyword is handy, for access to the CD rerolls Stratagem)
- Whatever we’re meant to call a Herald of Tzeentch these days, with Gaze of Fate (this can be summoned, but if you’re getting clever with Stratagems then a Daemon Detachment is an asset)
- Buckets of CP
If the stars align, and enemy units deploy in your face, the following can contribute:
- deployed Kharybdis (now, hear me out)
- Lord of Change/Ahriman/Magnus getting closer with Infernal Gateway (can double up as your Warptimer, but ideally that model is keeping away from DTW coverage; likewise, Gazer of Fate wants to be bunkering)
Right. You deploy with the four Rhinos up tight. Right behind them, there’s the plasma rhino and Daemon Prince. The Vindicators deploy in a fairly dispersed fashion, hogging cover is possible. They don’t need to be in range of the enemy turn one. They just need need to rendezvous.
I can’t believe I’m typing this.
If you’re going ahead with Kharybdises and Infernal Gateway, they should be flanking this formation.
Warp help me, this is terrible. If it’s any consolation, these are mostly decent enough units that it won’t be terrible when this gets shut down.
You Advance with each of the front Rhinos. If you didn’t get first turn, don’t worry. There should be enough left to make this work. Maybe they’ll prioritise the scary gribbly Kharybdis you threw into this train wreck.
I am not speaking metaphorically with that last idiom.
The four Rhinos arrange themselves into two columns. Precision doesn’t matter too much. The important thing is that they are all touched by some prepared circular templates that will bewilder your opponent at first. The dimensions of these templates will become clear very shortly.
I should stop here. I won’t.
You know in the Two Towers, when the Uruk-Hai Berzerker does his death run with the torch? The Plasma Rhino does this, with a cheeky Warptime to nudge it as far forwards as possible with the other Rhinos all within 6” and a valid target within 12”.
If you didn’t lose first turn and a Vindicator, your opponent will probably suss what’s going on when you move the three of them and check they’re all within 24” of a point that is 3” away from the four Rhinos. (If there’s an enemy Spore Mine or Nurgling in there, more power to you.) They can Advance for this - though if you roll enough 6’s, you might want to have them able to shoot. The Daemon Prince flies up. He’s at least 6” away from the lead Rhino’s final position, and within 7” of the other Rhinos.
SHUT DOWN MY WARPTIME TERMINATORS, WILL YOU? *shakes fist in general direction of Nottingham*
With the pieces in play, you rapid fire your gambit from the Psychic phase after anything else you’re doing. If you’ve got a Daemons Detachment, re-rolls on casting is a good call.
This has so many moving parts, it will never work. Will it?
Start with Gaze. You want a spare reroll to hand. Then Warptime the Rhino. You’re not moving a unit, here. You’re chambering a shell. If you’ve got the opportunity, hit something with Gateway, so as to inflict as much splash damage on your Rhinos as possible. It does not matter if the enemy is a worthwhile target. You weren’t aiming at them.
At this point, you must maintain clarity in your composure, so that your opponent is absolutely clear that you are following the letter of the rules to the letter. But you must also execute a rapid flow of actions, so as to shock and awe them with your Kamikaze bravado.
As the Shooting Phase commences, any Kharybdis that are able to legally hit a Rhino do so. Again, it does not matter what enemy units they target to make this technically legal. Then, the Plasma Rhino overcharges and gives something both barrels. If you’ve got a target with a -1 to be hit ability, you are laughing. Ghostkeel battlesuit? Perfect. Throw the requisite rerolls needed to make it pop.
I play Putrid Detonation. My destroyed Nurgle Vehicle automatically explodes.
Each Rhino takes D6 Mortal Wounds. The inhabitants of the Rhino jump out, at within spitting distance of the enemy.
I play Linebreaker Bombardment. Every unit within 3” of this point in the middle of my cluster of Rhinos takes 3D3W on the roll of a 4+.
Start making your checks starting with the most heavily damaged Rhino. If you miss, use a re-roll. If you roll low damage and leave it with 1W, consider a re-reroll. Repeat for each one in turn.
Execute these actions clearly but quickly. Your opponent doesn’t think a squad of Berzerkers can reach their lines on the first turn. You want the horror of their situation to hit them like a train.
When the smoke clears, if there’s a Rhino or two with low Wounds, you can try to pop them by the Daemon Prince using Nurgle’s Rot. YES, I WENT THERE. 6CP TO KILL MY OWN UNITS. SAY SOMETHING. You’ve got an alright chance of one of the Rhinos exploding on its own volition, adding to the fun.
Best case scenario, you’ve got forty Possessed and Berzerkers within easy charge distances, and an opponent looking back at deepstriking Kraken Swarmlord & Genestealers like Batman remembering Joker’s innocuous first prank.
I’m sorry.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also: if the enemy army moved forwards with some short to medium ranged gunline, you might be able to drop the advancing on the Rhinos. That way, you can declare charges on loads of enemy units with your 1W surviving Rhinos. Dare them to shoot you. This has the effect of continuing the confusion and shock and awe. Ten minutes ago, they laughed at you as you forfeit First Blood with that self-terminating Rhino. Bwahaha, the fools, etc
General bonus: these are all pretty good units, and if the whole plan goes south, you can always just blast away with Vindicators as your Rhinos full of madmen reach the enemy the only fashioned way
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also! Don’t forget to fire the Combi-Bolter the first Rhino comes with, and the Combi-Bolters of any Rhinos that didn’t Advance. It’d be a shame to waste them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay, this ludicrous proposal aside, I think I am going to pack Plasma on my shock Troops’ rhinos and take opportunity shots to try to execute a disembarkation where it would be of benefit.
Also, to really conceal your intentions, maybe conspicuously put a Warptimer on the other side of the board - perhaps looking like they’re going to boost that Kharybdis (actually, this is a pretty good thing to do anyway) and use a Familiar to replace an innocuous Warptime where you need it to be.
Thanks for the other ideas I just wanted to play WE pure, but i will try a list with warptime to.
Next Saturday i will give it a try.
12000p
