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their invulv save and 2w is pretty hard to take down for just about everything. I really depend on str 8+ weapons hitting/shooting at them to down effectively. Unfortunately most of those would just happen to be melta guns that get in range to get charged right after if I can't down them all. Plasma just isn't enough but wierdly enough, torrent of cheap lasguns still manages to do ok.

units of 6 are possible under the new codex. Very deadly especially since you can actually do some minor wound allocation with them as well with the cheap upgrades in there. Usually see them running but at least the whip coils are useful.