1500 Space Marines

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**Crazyterran**

Hey Guys, I'm looking for some opinions on my 1500 point list, and here it is:

HQ:

Librarian - Terminator Armour(25pts), Storm Shield(15pts) - 140 pts

Troops:

Scout Squad: +5 Scouts(65pts), Sniper Riflex9, Missle Launcerx1(10pts) - 150pts

Tactical #1: Melta Gun(5pts), Missile Launcher, +5 Marines(80pts) - 175pts

Tactical #2: Melta Gun(5pts), Missile Launcher, +5 marines(80pts) - 175pts

Razorback (attached to one combat squad): Twin Linked Lascannons - 75pts

Elites:

Assault Terminators: Thunder Hammers + Storm Shieldsx7, +2 Terminators(80pts) - 280pts

Dedicated Land Raider Crusader - 265pts

Heavy Support:

Vindicator: Siege Shield(10pts) - 125pts

Vindicator: Siege Shield(10pts) - 125 pts

Total: 1495 Points.

EDIT: refining the list as we discuss it, that's what edits are for!

**A-Hivemind**

Have you thought about giving the Libby a storm shield? Significantly increases his survivability for 40 points. What powers have you got in mind for him?

At least you have taken 2 Vindi's. They don't really work to well singularly. What armies do you regularly go up against?

**Crazyterran**

Null Zone/?, since he's not an Epistolary and will be using Null Zone most of the time since he'll be slumming with the Terminators.

Would it be worth trading off the Extra Armor on the Land Raider for his Storm Shield? the 15 extra points needs to come from somewhere, afterall... hmm.

And, whenever i manage to get down to my local GW, I have seen a lot of Eldar/Dark Eldar/Guard/Orks.

**A-Hivemind**

With the AV14 of the LR, to me the extra armour is not really worth it.

The crusaders range against the DE, IG and Orks is handier than the flamer template of the Redeemer. So that helps you out a bit.

With Null Zone, against those armies, there aren't really that many Invun saves. You may be better of with The Avenger and something else. As the LR is an Assault Vehicle, you can drive up, drop the termie squad, rapid fire the hurricane bolters and depending on the enemy either use The Avenger, st 5 ap3 will wound eldar and quard on 2+ ignoring their armour and cover, and then you can pile in with the termies or save the psychic power of the force weapon.

That's my opinion though, so you don't have to listen to anything I have to say

**Crazyterran**

Maybe i'll run Null Zone/Avenger then, since I've found a few annoying invuln saves in those armies. (especially DE, dat Archon mannnn)

And yeah, I'll stop being lazy and custom make a Stormshield to throw on this metal librarian. the +3 invuln will make the difference when going up against those MCs.

**A-Hivemind**

It helps in general everything to. Other power weapons, meltas, Lances, Ap 1 & 2.

**riverhawks32**

The tactical squads on foot? Why give melta guns if 15/20 will be on foot and not in a razorback? I would drop the extra armor on LR, drop the two extra termies. I would throw in another razorback or whatever. Any army such as guard/DE/Eldar will chew anything on foot up and spit it out.

**A-Hivemind**

Imperial Guard Artillery *drools*

**Crazyterran**

riverhawks32 wrote:The tactical squads on foot? Why give melta guns if 15/20 will be on foot and not in a razorback? I would drop the extra armor on LR, drop the two extra termies. I would throw in another razorback or whatever. Any army such as guard/DE/Eldar will chew anything on foot up and spit it out.

I don't have the cash to shell out for another Razorback, and i despise using models as 'count as'.

and, the melta gun group will be running along with the Razorback, since i'll be wanting to shoot that Lascannon.

However, I might switch one of the Melta Guns to a plasma gun, and that'll fill up the last 5 pts to make my army an even 1500.

**MFletch**

Raiders are very steep for 1500 pts. Extra armour is great given PotMS.
Transportless tacticals are not clever as has been mentioned.

**Barathoern**

Good choice with the dual vindicators. I also agree with A-Hivemind, drop the extra termies and armor. I don't agree with the general rule that foot marines are sub-par, IMHO they are the best SMU in the game that can take a hit and keep going. I don't know of another troop choice outside of marines and their variants that can lose 80-90% of their men and still rally to capture a control point.

You might want to cut down the extra scouts though and take an attack bike if you have one or a speeder. These can quickly redeploy and couter threats; as it stands I don't see any capability to do that in your army. Good luck.

**A-Hivemind**

I also agree with what Barathoern says with the scouts.
Their snipers might sound good on paper, but in game, they suck.

If you drop the scouts and take two attack bikes, you have an extra 70 points left over. Wack a PF onto the razorbacked sergeant and you have 45 points to float around with.

**Crazyterran**

Unfortunately, i do not have any attack bikes, and my speeder is so badly built i'd be internally shamed to ever use it. (The gun fell off the bottom when i was building it, got covered in crap i could never clean off... gah.)

I did just find a Rhino, though, and have rebuilt / fixed it. I figured dropping a terminator for it would give both of my tactical squads a transport, which will help me take capture points in games.

**MFletch**

Wow, your list is Mercurial.
I would only have snipers with camo cloaks, this means you might as well get Telion as he gives the squad stealth for a similar price.

If you have scouts you might as well drop a tactical squad. 20 scoring models, maximum 4 scoring units should be enough.
An extra vindi would be silly but awesome if you want to reallocate points.

**Crazyterran**

MFletch wrote:Wow, your list is Mercurial.
I would only have snipers with camo cloaks, this means you might as well get Telion as he gives the squad stealth for a similar price.

If you have scouts you might as well drop a tactical squad. 20 scoring models, maximum 4 scoring units should be enough.
An extra vindi would be silly but awesome if you want to reallocate points.

The main reason I have been taking Scouts w/ Snipers is to take down things like MCs, as, I feel my list doesn't really have enough oomph to do so, but with 9 Rending shots, they may be able to do it, allowing my TH terminators to take on other scary things. Or, even, allow me to pin down enemy squads that are advancing on my (albeit small) fire base where my Missile Launchers are located, and with 9 snipers, they are almost guaranteed to take out a few models that are incoming. I could take out the last extra terminator, order a Telion, and use him as my final choice and get an even 1500 once again, and use his special to take characters down a few wounds...

Since I don't currently have a Telion, I'm going to leave the list sans him for now and with the extra terminator.

I do have another Vindicator sitting on my shelf from back when they sold Linebreaker squads... hmmm...

Again people, all the help refining and giving opinions on this list is greatly appreciated. I'm trying to get a good list for pretty much everything onto the table, as, I've lost quite a bit due to doing silly things like taking a captain + command squad instead of a Librarian, for example.

HQ:

Librarian - Terminator Armour, Storm Shield - 140 pts

Troops:

Scout Squad: +5 Scouts, Sniper Riflex8, Missle Launcerx1, Sgt. Telion - 200pts

Tactical #1: Melta Gun, Missile Launcher, +5 Marines - 175pts

Tactical #2: Melta Gun, Missile Launcher, +5 marines - 175pts

Razorback (attached to one combat squad): Twin Linked Lascannons - 75pts

Rhino (attached to one Combat squad): Stormbolter - 35pts

Elites:

Assault Terminators: Thunder Hammers + Storm Shieldsx6, +1 Terminators - 200pts

Dedicated Land Raider Crusader - 250 pts

Heavy Support:

Vindicator: Siege Shield(10pts) - 125pts

Vindicator: Siege Shield(10pts) - 125 pts

Total: 1500 Points.

**riverhawks32**

i would put a full 10-man squad in the rhino TBH...and do the snipers have cloaks?

**Crazyterran**

riverhawks32 wrote:i would put a full 10-man squad in the rhino TBH...and do the snipers have cloaks?

Not at the moment, but i plan on dropping the 6th Terminator and putting Telion in there, giving them the stealth special rule.

The main problem with putting the full 10 man squad in the rhino would be the inability to fire the Missile launcher, no? Giving my army slightly less stopping power against tanks.

**Barathoern**

A rhino would help, but with only one on the table it will most likely be targeted pretty early to reduce the exact reason you might take it in the first place, to re-deploy your troops.

If you're going to walk your troops across the board then do it proud, just realizing your ability to rapidly re-deploy is limited if not non-existent...

**Pony_law**

Ok I would drop the 5 extra scouts from the squad so you have a 5 man squad with 3 snipers and a missle launcher, spend 15 points on camo cloaks and this squad is now your home objective campors or they infiltrate to the out of the way SG objective. a 2+ cover save when they go to ground makes them a pain to kill.

With the remaing 50 points give your other tac squad a rihno so they are mobile which you need to score non home objectives.

that leaves 15 points left which I would use for either upgrading 1 tac missle launcher to a lascannon, prefereably the razo unit, (so you have mnore ranged anti-light armor.or a power weapon to one of the sarges as if they get in combat you want to kill a modle or two per round