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I'm just curious if its possible to have a reasonably effective Schwere Panzerkompanie from the Earth and Steel Book.
Here's the list I came up with

Company HQ w. Tiger I E - 225

Schwere Panzer Platoon w. 3 Tiger I E - 645
Schwere Panzer Platoon w. 3 Tiger I E - 645

Schwere Panzerpioneer Platoon w. 3 squads - 135
Rocket Launcher Battery w. 4 15cm NW41 Launchers - 145

Total 1795 points

Yup that list would hurt. The pioneers and Nebs are good, you might come unstuck with against airpower through?

I would drop down the tanl pls to two per. That would free you up for some SP AAA and maybe some recce elements.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My friends lists looks a bit like this:

Schwere Panzerkompaine
Coy HQ - 1 x Tiger IE

Schwere Panzer Pl - 2 x Tiger 1E
Schwere Panzer Pl - 2 x Tiger 1E

Schwere Panzerpioneer Platoon - Pl HQ and 2 x Panzerpioneer sections

Panzergrenadier Platoon - 1x Command PF/SMG, 4x MG squads, 4 x trucks

Motorised Artillery Battery - 1x Command SMG, 1x Staff, 2x Observer Rifle, 2x Kubelwagen, 4x 12.2cm FH396

That's at 1745pts. With you dropping two Tigers, you could put a lot more support into that kompaine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
His kompaine is also short of any AAA, but we play at 1750pts, and I know he is debating adding some at the expense of something else.

This looks like it would hirt, however it's far to strong in one area. You should drop some tiger's and incorporate some Artilary, or some AA, any list with planes would destroy this.

I love Tigers over Panthers just because of the Ace Skills, the ability of these Tanks to dish the pain and take a pounding is impressive, but it often doesn't win you the game. I dropped them from my Lehr Grenadier list purely because they were a bogeyman unit, everyone was paranoid about it. They shot at it all the time and left the rest of my army (the actual dangerous bit) alone. After a while experienced players realised to ignore it because the fact it goes to ROF 1 when it moves, the +1 to hit at range of >16" and if firing against a Veteran Concealed unit you may as well not bother the chances of hitting are slim to negligible. I called it the Noisy Kitty, all it does it raise the ambient noise level of the battlefield roaring it's cannon and never hitting a thing. You can SPAM alot of AT guns for the price of tiger platoon, and with the sheer numbers of hits you are going to bail/ destroy a few.

For the record I have artillery with the rockets. In my personal experience they perform better point for point than the 10.5cm guns I used to run. That said, I did drop a tiger from each platoon and added in some AA and recce.

Company HQ w. Tiger I E - 225

Schwere Panzer Platoon w. 2 Tiger I E - 430
Schwere Panzer Platoon w. 2 Tiger I E - 430

Schwere Panzer Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon w. 3 Quads all w. armor - 165
Schwere Panzer Armored Scout Platoon w. 4 squads & panzerfaust smg team - 220
Schwere Panzerpioneer Platoon w. 3 squads all upgraded to 251/7 Halftracks - 180
Rocket Launcher Battery w. 4 15cm NW41 Launchers - 145

Total 1795 points

That is a very competitive list.

I like it.

When I see the list's you post I can't stop wondering, where are the Königstiger? I know it's a costly tank but it's just to cool to ignore.
How dos the bigger kitty preform? I have had thoughts on a shwere panzerkompanie with 5 Königstiger's and some scouts and AA at 2000pts.

(cant help it, it's a swell tank )

Awesome looking tank. I just find that it's WAAAAAAAY to many points to be worth taking.

I've seen several Schwere Panzekompanie lists with Königtigers in them do well.

Here's one of mine from Grey Wolf that I'm tempted to try out;

HQ: Panzer VI B Königstiger (Henschel)

Combat: Panzer VI B Königstiger

Panzer VI B Königstiger

Weapons: Panzer Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon 2 Armored Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm) half tracks

Divisional: Armored Rocket Launcher Battery 3 Panzerwerfer 42 (Maultier) w/ extra crew

Panzerpionier Platoon (3 squads with Goliath demo carrier)

Luftwaffe Light AA Gun Platoon- 3 Quad 2cm Flak Nests

Luftwaffe Heavy AA Gun Platoon 1 8.8cm FlaK 36 w/extra crew

Total: 1750

@KATO KonigsTiger are cool. But they are too expensive in points, too few in number and breakdown far to easily.

The only thing I don't like about the Schwere armored scout platoon...

...is that it doesn't recce.

It's "scout" in name only. Better to take the schwim/kubbelwagons and actually get something that recons.

Also not a huge fan of the smaller schwere panzerpioneers. 4 stands of infantry is barely enough to blink at.

I would only go with this list if I wanted to have fun, not to win then my finns are batter at that.
I just like the idea of the monster tank's roaming the battlefield

I really enjoy using my Tiger II.I usually just use it as a mobil Bunker,Move it over to a easy uncontested objective and park it.But i finally had mine destroyed by a lucky shot from a lucky shot from a Para bazooka ambush.

Shotgun wrote:The only thing I don't like about the Schwere armored scout platoon...

...is that it doesn't recce.

It's "scout" in name only. Better to take the schwim/kubbelwagons and actually get something that recons.

Also not a huge fan of the smaller schwere panzerpioneers. 4 stands of infantry is barely enough to blink at.

Interesting, as the Schwere list in Grey Wolf has a Panzer Scout platoon of motorcycle MG teams that are reccce and it's a Weapons platoon.

I take the Panzerpioneers from the Divisional Support, which are 7 stands of pioneer infantry plus transport trucks.

I suppose Earth & Steel lacks these options?

I've read some decent tactic pages about running the Schwere list and it appears you would still use terrain to your advantage and use your mobility to exploit position on the field. The pioneers would be used to escort/protect the Königstigers' flanks. I think the big problem with the list is where you get some sort of wonky matchup against pure infantry forces where you would be hard-pressed to thin out the blobs and take objectives (considering the current V3 rules) while staying agressive. Still, it appears to be a fun list and with the Tiger Aces rule on your Königstigers, you should be able to do some damage

I have just seen that the panzer SS in Gray wolf do not gain the königstiger which is weird as it was the SS ho got the first Tiger 2's

Do anyone have any tactic tip's beyond the one ThirdUltra just gave?

The SS Panzer lists in Grey Wolf are actually specially formed Kampfgruppe and are focused mainly on the 3. and 5. SS Panzerdivision elements of the kampfgruppe.

To go into more detail with the tactics involved; here are the Pros and Cons of the list so far.....

Cons: -Limited number of units
-Weak flank armor;
-Vulnerable to infantry;
-Vulnerable to heavy artillery and air support.

Pros: -Good fire power
-Good long range fire power;
-Good front armor;
-Psychological factor;
-Tiger Aces.

To mitigate your limited numbers, you would need to use your range and front-armor advantage, staying at-range to whittle down the enemy numbers with your firepower. To deal with these weaknesses, you can try the following;

Weak Flank Armor- you need to protect your flanks of the KT's by using area terrain as much as possible and/or using pioneer infantry to discourage armor flanking you. With terrain, you can kind of dictate the battle a bit by forcing the enemy to come around you or move to get those flank shots. This cuts down his ROF while on-the-move and while you're in concealing terrain, it si added protection, making you harder to hit. Although, keeping your front armor to the enemy at all times is probably best if able to.

Vulnerable to Infantry- enemy infantry will still be a problem for a list with only 3 KT's, so typically, it's best to protect them or support them in an assault. When defending, a good tactic is to use your HQ KT while keeping your SP AA units nearby. They can attach and throw down a withering hail of lead in defensive fire and can even turn back Strelk mobs in an assault. The best way to deal with infantry is to use your NW42's to drop templates on them early and long-shot them with your superior firepower. Once you've thinned them out and you're going in for the assault, use your pioneers' flame throwers to clear the way (the Goliath demo carrier can pay big dividends here); this can typically get rid of pesky bazooka teams, piats and some threatening gun-teams that would prove hazardous to your KT's.

Also, when in an assault, if you have the chance to break-off, do so. If you get carried away in it, you'll get swamped and eventually lose a tank you cannot afford to. Best to fall back/break off and gun the infantry down with your mg's and come back at them again. However, you really want to knock out the enemy infantry support elements, so use your NW42's or whatever artillery of your choice to do this....this means knocking out their arty with yours or any possible AT-assets.

Vulnerable to Artillery/Air Support- You want to pick off any artillery guns you can draw LOS to with your KT's and they appears to be very good at it. However, most enemy artillery is probably hidden and dug-in somewhere out of LOS. So, the best way to disrupt them is use your rocket artillery to pin them if you can;t direct-fire on them. Sometimes, if you can, stay out of LOS from enemy observers, this is easier said then done, but there's a chance that you can use terrain to help you with this. Also, targeting enemy observers with your AA guns if you happen to stumble upon them is a good way to shut down enemy artillery. Sometimes hiding and sniping can help. For enemy air support, use your Quad 2cm trucks; having them in the 'pocket' with the KT's is a good way to protect your tanks. Also, if you can get any AA, 88's or FlaK Nests, this helps ups the survival rate of your KT's big-time.

Now, to take advantage of your strengths;

Since you're running a KT, you should always try to get a good fire-position, looking for long, clear firing lanes. With your range, you should be able to reach out and 'touch' anybody with it and hurt them bad. So, staying in concealing terrain to cover your flanks while pounding away with your AT 16 FP 3+ gun should be second nature.A really cheap tactic is to use your FlaK Nests for cover while Stormtrooping out to shoot. Since FlaK Nests block LOS and are concealment to teams behind them, you can mitigate any direct fire coming your way while allowing you to shoot with impunity. Additionally, choose your targets and follow through, maximizing all firepower to destroy a platoon at a time. Using the Gun-Tank rule to pick out those annoying T-34/85's or Sherman VC Fireflies is a good way to negate potential enemy firepower coming to your flanks.

Good Front Armor- using your front-armor in a good fire-position makes your KT practically nigh-invulnerable to allied fire-power. You will be exceptionally annoying when you're stromtrooping from cover using full ROF to smack them at-range while always showing your highly defensible front. Just be careful of any flankers and you should be good to go.

The Psych Factor- nothing draws more attention than a Tiger I or a KT; this means the enemy will either be throwing everything and the kitchen sink at your 3 tanks, which means your other forces are free to pick at him (use your artillery liberally here if he ignores it lol1); OR the enemy will avoid you like the plague and try to go for more 'softer' targets of opportunity, which should play into your hands as you can determine where he's going and pick on him with your big tanks. Sometimes Ive seen whole sections of the battlefield yield to a KT in their area, giving way to go after something else, which allows the KT to do what it wants freely. So, you can use this as an advantage to dictate the battle your way.

Tiger Aces Skill- well, not much to be added here as it speaks for itself. The Tiger Aces skill on KT's really up the fear factor and nasty-potential of the unit. 2+ Stormtrooper moves, extra ROF and 2+ motivation tests will be a handful with these guys, so squeeze everything you can out of them and go smashing things lol!

Also, I've noticed that these lists require patience in their tactical decisions; meaning that you don't rush-in to spearhead and crush the enemy with it. You kill what you can kill while protecting what you have. It's kind of like the Russians where they have to manage their casualties and bleed slowly....instead with the Schwere list you have to not bleed at all, maximizing your protection and keeping your units supported. Take what you can get without giving up anything, making the enemy move, reducing his ROF. Meanwhile your artillery is hammering his artillery or targets of opportunity if need-be. Patience is the key word here and you methodically bleed the enemy dry one unit at a time.

These tips were shamelessly borrowed form other sites, but I also added my 2 cents worth in for good measure; hope this helps....