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A Saurus Oldblood with a shield, light armour, cold one, and dragon bane helm that would mean I have a 2+ save against all attacks STR 5 and below... Right?

Sadly, not. Armour saves stop at 1+, no matter how many bonuses you stack upon a character.

Awwh, shucks.

Yea just stop at 1+ and buy other junk.
I suggest loosing the shield for a GW or halberd.

i have a similar question.In the warriors of chaos eye of the gods table. The result that applies a +1 armor save to the unit actually says up to a 0+. Is this perhaps a one time army book exception, or is it some how changed by the BRB? I do not see a WOC faq on it.

It does not state you can use the 0+, so you would still stop at 1+

it says to a maximum of 0+

How is that different from saying you can use it?

Do you have permission to use it? No - you would treat it as 1+ for all purposes

Warhammer Rulebook, page 11:

"On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a Warhammer Armies book. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the Warhammer Armies book always takes precedence."

I'd say Chaos can still get a 0+, but only via Eye of the Gods.

Does the WoC book explain how a 0+ save works, cuz the BRB sure dosen't.

I presume it'd be like a 1+ save. A roll of a one still counts as a fail but stregnth-causes armour changes would go off the 1+, therefore needing STR 5 to make any difference.

So, for a 0+ save:

STR 4 = 1 to fail
STR 5 = 1 to fail
STR 6 = 1,2 to fail
etc

"I presume" is not RAW

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Warhammer Rulebook, page 11:

"On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a Warhammer Armies book. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the Warhammer Armies book always takes precedence."

I'd say Chaos can still get a 0+, but only via Eye of the Gods.

Actually, Chaos can mathematically get over a 1+ a few ways, one of which is by putting a Juggernaut and a shield on any Lord with Chaos Armor.

One of the reasons why they shouldn't be able to :X

Rules as written say you can't get over a 1+, BRB says under no circumstances is it allowed, and that obviously applies to all Army books universally. NO rule in the Chaos army book says that their saves can become 0+. Such a thing is not only contrary to the spirit of the BRB, but it's positively not legal, let alone logical...

It would follow that if you could get a 0+ then you could get a -1+ and so forth until you are getting into the realm of absurdity. Just let sleeping dogs lie and go with RAW in the BRB.

I did go with RAW in the BRB. There is a discrepancy between the BRB and the Warriors of Chaos army book, and since the army book takes precedence, an Eye of the Gods roll (ONLY) could result in a 0+ save.

I agree fully that a Lord of Khorne on a Juggernaut would cap at a 1+, because nothing suggests it should go lower. But the Eye of the Gods chart specifically says that your armor save can improve to a 0+.

Under NO circumstances could you get to a -1+ (BRB limits you to 1+, Eye of the Gods allows for 0+), so your 'realm of absurdity' comment means nothing, Ted.

...

For the record, THIS is why I hate RAW discussions.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:I did go with RAW in the BRB. There is a discrepancy between the BRB and the Warriors of Chaos army book, and since the army book takes precedence, an Eye of the Gods roll (ONLY) could result in a 0+ save.

I agree fully that a Lord of Khorne on a Juggernaut would cap at a 1+, because nothing suggests it should go lower. But the Eye of the Gods chart specifically says that your armor save can improve to a 0+.

Under NO circumstances could you get to a -1+ (BRB limits you to 1+, Eye of the Gods allows for 0+), so your 'realm of absurdity' comment means nothing, Ted.

...

For the record, THIS is why I hate RAW discussions.

Oh, you were right about Eye of the Gods, my mistake, excuse me

the +1 armour save does not effect every character Archaon for example has a -2 armour save so the attacker must be S7 to hurt him

There's a cap to how low armor can go?
I thought there was no limit, but a roll of 1 is always a fail.

8th edition changed that.

Yeah, pre-8th Edition it was "How much you can feasibly put on a model", which for most armies capped out at about 0+ or 1+ anyways (Heavy Armor + Barding + Enchanted Shield for a 1+ save, or one of the "Has a 1+ save that may not be modified", and 0+ for the same thing but with Full Plate). For 8th Edition they changed it to a max-save of 1+. Dwarves and Chaos Warriors are the main two armies to get hit by this change, I think, with a few armies actually improving the best armor save with 8th due to the new Common Magic Armors.

Dwarves are unaffected by the change. All their rules internally capped them at 1+. A bump on Lizards and Warriors, though.

Red_Zeke wrote:Dwarves are unaffected by the change. All their rules internally capped them at 1+. A bump on Lizards and Warriors, though.

Yeah, silly with the Shieldbearers limiting Lords to 1+. Never did quite understand why they had done that, with other books allowing below 1+ by various mounts in combination with armor.

My feeling, after having read page 43 of the BRB and page 43 of the Warriors of Chaos Army Book (what an odd coincidence!) is that Chaos could still have a 0+ save, but only by result 6 of the Eye of the Gods table, and only if they already had a 1+ that wasn't granted by one of the various "that cannot be improved by any means" items or effects.

It would be quite the odd General who took that result, though, rather than moving it to a 5.

Actually, a 0+ save on my Chaos Knights came in really handy the other day...