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I went looking through all GW's pdf files looking for a CSM fleet.

I found Space Marines, and their rules...

And yet for CSM, all it basically did was add some rules to the chaos fleet and call them CSM instead.

That MIGHT be all there is, but I thought at one point I had seen rules for actual CSM fleets, utilizing battlebarges, strike cruisers and all that. No?

Or are there rules somewhere that combine both fleets, allowing a CSM battlebarge to fly with regular chaos cruisers and escorts? I wanted to sell my old Imperial fleet and make a CSM fleet to match my Emperor's Children, but I've always wanted a purple and gold Battlebarge and now it seems like I can't include one.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bw_dULEfC3rbYzUyNjQzZTAtMDZiMS00ZjRlLWJjNzMtYTE5YmNjZjdjODQ1

The 'powers of chaos' PDF is what you'll be looking for.

Awesome! So does the chaos battle barge use the stats of the marine battle barge? I see they have versions of the chaos battleships as their unique battle barges too.

But no strike cruisers, which is alright I suppose, I really just wanted to make sure there was a way to use the marks of chaos and belong to a legion and still take battle barges.

Heya,

the ships Chaos uses are the ships used by the Imperial Army before the heresy. Marines used those vessels.

After the heresy the chaos marines fled into the eye of terror with the ships.

The Imperium created the seperate forces of:
Imperial Navy
Space Marines
Imperial Guard

making sure no part could ever raise havoc as what happened during the Heresy.
The Navy dominates space. The Guard needs them for transport & support. The Marines have ships for planetary assaults but are not equipped for fleet engagements like the Navy is.
Guards are needed to be the bulk compared to the few Marines.

The Strike Cruiser and Battle Barge are designed after the heresy for specific planetary assault missions.
That is the reason the Chaos fleet does not have them.

The pdf arturius gives delves into the specific fleets for the main Chaos deities.

Do note that in the Rogue Trader pdf you will find a pirate list that can use a Strike Cruiser as renegade vessel under command of the Night Lord Legion. Which is possible as them being another kind of force. Covert ops.

Ok, but I see there are battle barges in that fleet - both the unique ones and standard. Does the standard one use the standard space marine BB rules?

The 'Chaos Battle Barge' entry in the fleet lists seems to refer to the profile given for the Vengeful Spirit, going by the sidebar on page 112. (Page 12 of the PDF.)

It's pretty similar to the Despoiler, more than the 'modern' Marine battle barges. Keep in mind that loyalist chapters can take a Despoiler as a venerable battle barge; rather than a class of ship, it's a job description, given to battleships that move space marines for the attack. The battle barges of the Chaos Fleets were more like Despoilers than what you're thinking of.

Exactly. Kinda ill placed regarding the mentioning on page 12 and in the fleet list. Ah well.

Only pity that GW kinda messed up their time line in the rulebook. Because the Despoiler is designed millennia after the heresy (m36 iirc, heresy m31 iirc).

So what we assume is that the Despoiler is a design based on older designs which are the Chaos barges these days...

There isn't a generic "battlebarge" entry for CSM. only the specific flagships of particular legions.

Again, Vengeful Spirit uses the same profile as the general 'chaos battle barge' entry. Not only is it not listed as unique in its profile, the sidebar gives several options to modify different chaos battle barges, and even the option to include it in loyalist fleets as a venerable battlebarge.

Chaos Do have Battle Barge and Strike Cruiser. You can found them in the Planet Killer Vol1 Book.
http://www.gamehobby.net/images/fanatic_press/battlefleet_gothic_planet_killer.jpg
But its hard to get one of those. I by myself made 4 Chaos Strike Cruiser and 1 Chaos Battle Barge. You can see here : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/93303.page

Hey,
Planetkiller ain't official so ask opponents before use.

Same goes to faq/compendium 2010 (albeit having some elements of officialness)...

It was created by the BFG design team.

it is official enough for BFG purposes(which are FAR looser then your typical GW game requirements)

Grey Templar wrote:It was created by the BFG design team.

it is official enough for BFG purposes(which are FAR looser then your typical GW game requirements)

Indeed. I do fully agree with that.

Found it!

But it looks like that fleet has very few options, and doesn't let me use the chaos cruisers I already have.

That other one, I guess, is acceptable and I can either ask my opponent if they mind me using a battlebarge from the CSM fleet list in planet killer 1, or if they mind it counting as the chaos battlebarge from the regular list. The only problem with it really I guess is that it has launch bays on the side, while the model shows just long rows of guns.

You could just play an SM fleet and add 'spiky bits' flavour. This way you will have sufficient disparity between your fleet and a Chaos fleet.

I dont see any reason for a CSM fleet list. You have SM, Chaos and Imperial, SM can easily be CSM, just ally with Chaos fleet, which clearly has CSM overlords. Having Chaos and Imperial for main fleets is what matters.
If only this was as simple in 40K. I would much prefer a single chaos codex to represent traitor guard than CSM. You can make a perfectly good CSM codex with SM + summoned daemons.

Spellbound wrote:Found it!

But it looks like that fleet has very few options, and doesn't let me use the chaos cruisers I already have.

What?
I don't get it. You can include any cruisers you want. What might confuse is this:
The names listed under eg Heavy Cruiser: Hecate is an addition to all other heavy cruisers (styx, hades, acheron).

Orlanth wrote:You could just play an SM fleet and add 'spiky bits' flavour. This way you will have sufficient disparity between your fleet and a Chaos fleet.

I dont see any reason for a CSM fleet list. You have SM, Chaos and Imperial, SM can easily be CSM, just ally with Chaos fleet, which clearly has CSM overlords. Having Chaos and Imperial for main fleets is what matters.
If only this was as simple in 40K. I would much prefer a single chaos codex to represent traitor guard than CSM. You can make a perfectly good CSM codex with SM + summoned daemons.

Chaos Space Marines do not have access to Strike Cruisers. These are developed after the heresy.

So the Tyrant of Badab cant have them either, oh wait.

Not all CSM date back to Horus.

No it's two different CSM lists.

Planet Killer #1's CSM list shows a CSM battlebarge and CSM strike cruisers - they're the marine ones with regular strike craft instead of thunderhawks and use all the marine rules, plus the warmaster and lords can have marks.

Then there's the updated CSM list, which does not have the "Battle Barge". It has variants of the chaos battleships as "chaos battle barges", no strike cruisers, and includes all the chaos fleet cruisers and escorts, with the option to buy any of them CSM crews for extra points. In addition, this list allows each SHIP to have a mark rather than just the lords, includes options to make them daemonships, and in the legion-specific fleets even has special upgrades to give ships with the different gods' marks.

What does the second fleet not have? The Battle Barge as it appears for space marines, with its broad weapon batteries on the sides and bombardment cannons. I just like the look of the model and think it would look great painted in Emperor's Children colors, so I was trying to find how to use it. Basically I either ask opponent's permission to use it as a marine battlebarge, counts-as it to be one of the chaos "battlebarges" that are really just the battleships refitted, or try to convert it so that it actually looks like it's armed like the chaos refitted battleships.

There's actually a third CSM list too - it's just the chaos fleet list plus Abaddon, the Planet Killer, and rules for buying CSM crews for the regular ships. That one's the worst, I think.

And to whomever said 40k doesn't need a CSM codex - really? You really want Chaos marines to just be regular marines with spikes and daemons? Where's the daemon weapons? Where's the marks? Where's the twisted daemonically possessed vehicles and cult troops? I can't believe I read what I read, there. Ugh.

Nothing hinders you to simply add a Chaos Battlebarge (one of the newer ones with bombard guns and 6+ Armor) and / or Strike Cruisers into a regular Chaos Fleet with cruisers, heavy cruisers and all that. And btw. Strike Cruiser cn be extreme effective unter chaos player controll. Mark of Khorne and lets go rage-boarding !

Spellbound,
The CSM list from Armada aint bad at all. Bit generic but does its stuff.
The PK#1 list is pretty old and new people have less access to it so I'd prefer the new list.


Vanquisher,
Where can you add Strike Cruisers to a Chaos fleet?


Orlanth,
yes the badab, or Night Lords. They could have a (captured in case of NL) Strike Cruiser.
check out the Rogue Trader-wolfpack list in the faq/compendium 2010.

horizon wrote:
Vanquisher,
Where can you add Strike Cruisers to a Chaos fleet?

On the Table with miniatures !
Also there is a feature called "Allies"

Doh, heh heh

If you follow FAQ2010 (Allies, Subjects & Mercenaries section) then Chaos cannot ally with Space Marines.

It is not mentioned explicit but I could see a Strike Cruiser from the wolf pack list being used in a Chaos fleet following reserve rules.

And of course there is always the upper rule: you can do whatever you want as long as you and your opponent(s) agree!

Yeah I'll probably go with that. Most games I can probably just use the new "old school" battlebarge (refitted Despoiler), or the special Emperor's Children battlebarge (refitted Desolator), and in very large games ask opponent's permission to run the other as the Planet Killer #1 chaos Battlebarge with all the bombardment cannon, 6+ armor goodness. I love the sleekness of the model and after assembling it last night, it really does look super awesome

What I ment was, you take the CSM List from the Planet Killer #1 and Ally them with any regular chaos Fleet. That would do the trick. Oure Chaos Players uses Chaos Strike Cruisers in oure current campaign as well.
Also the "Night Hag"

off topic: You want to know whats really stupid?

Space marines can take the Planet Killer as a Venerable battlebarge. it is a Chaos battleship

Grey Templar wrote:off topic: You want to know whats really stupid?

Space marines can take the Planet Killer as a Venerable battlebarge. it is a Chaos battleship

I think the original BFG rulebook has a line in it that basically says "It's OK to mix Imperial and Chaos ships as they're all being traded back and forth anyway" that makes this a bit more reasonable... The Imperium is intolerant of Chaos, but I guess it'll hold it's nose and use an ancient, bad-ass spaceship it it's available. Just send in the Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, or other nutcases with flamers and such to clean it up, then have a few thousand adeptus mechanicus slaves refit it to make sure it's got the proper skull-themed decor, not the evil, nasty skull-themed decor. Besides, the Chaos ships look kind of like steampunk Star Destroyers. How cool is that?

(Realistically, I'd think my BFG Chaos Ships with the red and brass scheme could be converted, but the Imperials might not touch the one with the multiple-deck-high skull hooked on top. That one's just too tainted...)

Is the powers of chaos pdf the same as the Armada CSM list? Where can I get a copy of Armada now, or the info in pdf format?

Nope, not the same.

Armada is no longer for sale. Only as pdf on the GW website.

There are copies for sale on the internet, but they are ludicriously expensive for something that can just be printed out for free.