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Hey all,
I am going to be playing allot of empire soon and i am looking for a new army. So i was wondering whats the best army to play against empire with. my main trouble is his unit of knights /w a warrior priest Ludwig and Kurt in . so any suggestions?

note: i play vampires at the moment and they tear me a new one every time i play him

Just get a Wizard with lore of metal, then rip him a new one!

Trolololololol...Ya that should do it. Can't vampires take any lore they want with certain upgrades? Or maybe pit of shades

Empire is really an all comers army so they really have the tools to do ok against any army with an experienced player so another army might not be the best choice.

With VC just take a few spirit hosts and his army cant really handle them.

The only problem is the CR that unit generates, he has a static +4 combat res and Kurt normally kills 3-4 so he is roughly winning CR by 10-12 to begin with. then his unit hits so on average he accumulates around 15-17 combat res. now that means i have to kill most of his unit just to get even! now if i am fighting with a unit of blood knights like last time, i was wiped in the 1st turn and i got the charge! but Kurt were to die before he gets there. i will only be loosing by around 7-9 which i can deal with and if i can deal with Ludwig i will only need to kill around 4-6 to deal with combat, so maybe i should go death and hit him with the fate of *insert weirdly spelled word here* and i should be able to deal around 3-4 wounds and that should be enough to bump him off, the problem is getting close enough to target him...

Swamp him with zombies, zombies are the best infantry in the game. Just commit heavily to making more when trying to hold an elite hammer unit.

Bats are also your friends, buy enough bats to get to the gunline and tie it up.

The Empire armies weakness is its leadership, a hammer unit of knights can be lured away from his lines turning solid Ld9 army into Ld7 prey.

Sounds like you need a few things that can target your opponent in melee. A combat lord can pretty handily destroy any empire character other than a waralter/speculum combo, But I would recommend a terrorgheist, and a couple of banshees, Even a big knight bus cannot handle even a few losses and a lack of a ward save on those characters makes the shrieks a huge problem.

I understand that cannons are lethal to those terrogheist but with the vampire lore attribute as well as a smattering of bats and wolves, you should be able to shutdown his arty and also keep your monster near full strength.

Also a big unit of grave guard w/ great weapons has always been a personal favorite and killing blow is, well, deadly to characters with no ward save.

A fighty Vamp Lord w/Quickblood, Aura, Beguile, 4++, glittering scales & Sword of Anti-Heroes will tear his unit and his characters to shreds. You hit first with re-rolls due to I7, wreck the unit with your 7/S7 attacks, nerf Kurt with beguile. For more fun, add in a Wight King w/other trickster's shard to nerf his character's ward saves with proper placement.
If he challenges you, send your unit champ forwards.

VC's have little to fear from empire outside of mass mortar/cannon spam. Anything their characters think they can do, we can do about 10x better!

Lizardmen I'd say. Get a Slann. Lore of Life. Temple Gaurd. Ironcurse. Becalming Cogitation. Focused Rumination. Focus of Mystery. Lotta Chameleons.

I was thinking Daemons, i love Khorne and i can buff a basic unit to str 5 and toughness 7!, along with regen 4+ (that's if i have a good turn) now tell me that wont be devastating!

Experiment 626 wrote:A fighty Vamp Lord w/Quickblood, Aura, Beguile, 4++, glittering scales & Sword of Anti-Heroes will tear his unit and his characters to shreds. You hit first with re-rolls due to I7, wreck the unit with your 7/S7 attacks, nerf Kurt with beguile. For more fun, add in a Wight King w/other trickster's shard to nerf his character's ward saves with proper placement.
If he challenges you, send your unit champ forwards.

VC's have little to fear from empire outside of mass mortar/cannon spam. Anything their characters think they can do, we can do about 10x better!

Except the Specculum could cause some problems here..

2000 Volts wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:A fighty Vamp Lord w/Quickblood, Aura, Beguile, 4++, glittering scales & Sword of Anti-Heroes will tear his unit and his characters to shreds. You hit first with re-rolls due to I7, wreck the unit with your 7/S7 attacks, nerf Kurt with beguile. For more fun, add in a Wight King w/other trickster's shard to nerf his character's ward saves with proper placement.
If he challenges you, send your unit champ forwards.

VC's have little to fear from empire outside of mass mortar/cannon spam. Anything their characters think they can do, we can do about 10x better!

Except the Specculum could cause some problems here..

Except Kurt can not get the VHS

Also feed him 1 wide zombies and watch him just cry himself the sleep at night. It is a very TFG move but 1 wide zombies break deathstars

ah ya - duh - took it out of the confines of the post.

Tho there are a few consideraitons here: Your opponent is placing nearly 800 points of lords and heroes in one unit of knights! that's a lot of eggs in one basket.

Also, i don't have my army book in front of me but IIRC the war priest's hatred won't confer to Kurt since he's a lord and the oratory only works on lesser minds... not sure but it might not work on Ludwig either :/ Check that out.

Honestly, the weakest element of the Empire is their characters – they pay a lot of points for pretty modest damage potential.

At the same time Vampire Counts have some of the best tarpits in the game with skeletons and zombies. With their low price and ability to raise new troops, you should be able to hold up a block of knights and some characters for most of the game. In the meantime just slaughter everything else he’s got with the bulk of your army.

Oh, and remember that characters don’t benefit from the hatred inspired by the Warrior Priest, it only applies to regular troops.

Johnny-Crass wrote:Except Kurt can not get the VHS

No, but he runs a warrior priest as well, who very well could hold the VHS.

Johnny-Crass wrote:Also feed him 1 wide zombies and watch him just cry himself the sleep at night. It is a very TFG move but 1 wide zombies break deathstars

He will still have 4-5 (depending on how he ranks up) static CR and will have Kurt and Ludwig fighting, probably giving at least an extra 6 CR every turn. A 30 zombie conga line will hold for only 3 rounds of combat, assuming he doesn't flank charge with something, and you somehow manage to get a charge on them.

Plus, a 30-zombie conga line is a great way to lose opponents.

Johnny-Crass wrote:

2000 Volts wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:A fighty Vamp Lord w/Quickblood, Aura, Beguile, 4++, glittering scales & Sword of Anti-Heroes will tear his unit and his
Also feed him 1 wide zombies and watch him just cry himself the sleep at night. It is a very TFG move but 1 wide zombies break deathstars

why would this be so good, i don't see any point in it?

The one wide zombie trick is great due to how fast zombies raise (2D6+ wizard level) and you can get above starting size sooo yah. Also if you have a banner in your zombie unit that subtracts one loss so over all you are loosing about 5 zombies a turn and since you bring back statistically 8-11 I would say you are made in the shade.

Also once he runs into it a few times he will try new things to get around it and then you just disband the zombie congo line

I'm still trying to get over an Empire deathstar ripping through a Vampire count army. I mean is this weird to anyone else?

biccat wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:Except Kurt can not get the VHS

No, but he runs a warrior priest as well, who very well could hold the VHS.

If, as a VC player you *ever* accept a challenge with your general/non-dreadknight vamp, you're doing it wrong!!!

Unit champs are for accepting challenges. Vampires are for tearing rank-and-file into tiny sacks of shredded meat!

So you're up against a knight death star?

I've killed such things with 2 characters.
Flying Strigoi, +3A, Potion of Strength 2+ ward vs fire, red fury, fly and beguile.
Vampire: Fly, Beguile, dragon helm, heavy armor, shield, ASF sword, 4+ ward vs 1st wound.

Strigoi drinks potion, both charge into the knights.
Vampire challenges, which leaves the Strigoi with his 9 S8 attacks, re-rolls to hit, and generating more attacks with each kill. The strigoi usually single handedly wipes the whole unit of knights, vampire has a shot in the challenge. Usually win by enough to break opponent.
Stigoi averages 12 wounding hits at S8 (knights save on 6, and you should kill 10!).

650 point solution to a ~800+ point death star.


-Matt