Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi folks, got a bit of a yearly event coming up - trip to Warhammer World Nottingham for a one-off game, this year it's going to be Fantasy, 2500pts.
I'll be taking Beastmen and my opponent will be using Dwarfs - we're both getting back into fantasy after a big gap, and we've only had a handful of games of 8th edition (though I quite enjoy the changes, having played since 4th ed!)

In a few preliminary games (upto about 1500/2000pts) I've discovered that Dwarfs are pretty tough with the horde rules, that Crossbows/Thunderers are very nasty especially against unarmoured Beasties, and that artillery is even nastier. With that in mind I've come up with a preliminary list - idea is to try and take out/keep busy the ranged stuff so that my units arrive a little more intact, so far got this:

Beastlord = Crown of Horns
Shaman = Lv2, Staff of Darkoth
Shaman = Lv2, Hagtree Fetish
Wargor = BSB, Beast Banner, Heavy Armour, Gnarled Hide

24 Gor = 2x HW, FC
24 Gor = 2x HW, FC
25 Ungor = Spears, FC
10 Warhounds = Poisoned Attacks
10 Warhounds = Poisoned Attacks
Chariot

5 Minotaurs = 2x HW, FC, Bloodkine has Blackened Plate (because he relentlessly targets these with Flame Cannon!)
9 Harpies = Scouts
32 Bestigor = FC, Banner of Swiftness
2492pts

Not sure on what magic lores to use for Shamans. Also a lot of stuff is in there just because I have the models, the 1 chariot for instance - feel free to pick the list apart, the only restriction I would say is on the number of minotaurs, I can't stomach the new models! Any and all help appreciated, thanks in advance.

I'm not really sure what your Gor units are going to be able to tackle- as you say, dwarfs are tough nuts to crack. Are your models usable as bestigors? Those have given me a run for my money before... but gors, not so much :-/

I'm guessing you need them for core points... in which case, maybe a larger unit to run deep and take advantage of being steadfast, to pin enemy units and then hit them with minotaurs / bestigors?

Harpies drive me crazy, so good to see those in there

What do you plan to use the two units of 10 x warhounds for? If they're like chaos hounds, they're not much use other than as redirectors... and could use to be smaller units.

Another idea is, against dwarfs, why not have your ungors walk on from the board edge? I believe they have a decent chance of coming on from behind, and could make him nervous about his warmachines and throw off his game plan. Maybe 2 smaller units of them? I forget what the restriction is that allows a unit to come on, it's just having another larger unit on the board, right? I'd definitely prefer 2 chances to get an ungor unit on back there over one, so I'd split them if that's the case.

Does the herdstone that lets your shamans nearby generate extra power dice come for free?

Shard of the Herdstone is a 50 point Enchanted Item, I believe.

I'm going to echo RiTides on increasing the number of Gors you have. 24 won't last long enough to be a real threat, but a unit of 40 or so would be able to weather a bit better. Your BSB might as well grab a shield, serves the dual purpose of getting his armor save to 2+ and gives him the 6+ parry ward save in close combat.

Remember that Hounds don't count for core points, and really have become second to Ungor Raiders as redirecting units. At 30 points for a minimum sized unit, you can afford to grab a few and attempt to ambush some like RiTides suggested. Even if they don't kill a warmachine, they'll tie it up for at least a turn.

As for magic lore, Beasts is a good one for Beastmen to take. The signature buff allows you to make your Core choices (read: Gors) dangerous, and the other spells are generally useful. Shadow is another good option, debuffing your enemy's units.

Also: Drop Crown of Horns. There is an Enchanted Item that does the exact same thing but costs 40 points less. Crown of Horns is pretty much a waste.

Cheers, for the advice folks, as you can tell I've been out of the game for a good long while

streamdragon wrote:Drop Crown of Horns. There is an Enchanted Item that does the exact same thing but costs 40 points less. Crown of Horns is pretty much a waste.

Can you point me at said Enchanted item? Is it in the rulebook?

So, going for big units of Gors seems to be the general gist, a unit of 40 would certainly hold out a lot longer. I had planned to use one unit of 24 Gor in Ambush, but I could possibly use a smaller unit and have 40 Gor on the board.

streamdragon wrote:Remember that Hounds don't count for core points, and really have become second to Ungor Raiders as redirecting units. At 30 points for a minimum sized unit, you can afford to grab a few and attempt to ambush some like RiTides suggested. Even if they don't kill a warmachine, they'll tie it up for at least a turn.

Do I have to have Ungor Raiders on the board to bring on more? Or can I use ungor raiders in ambush if there are regular Ungor on the board? The reason I included the hounds was they move quickly and can screen my other units as they advance, a volley of Thunderer fire has decimated large units of Gor in the past. Also meant to point out they have Poisoned Attacks, to provide a little extra bite, pun intended

Anyone have any thoughts on how better to allocate the points from the warhounds if I choose not to use them? Should I throw in some more Chariots, or just spend the points on Ungor for ambushing?
Is it worth splitting the Bestigor into 2 smaller units? Also, character placement - BSB/General where?

Finally:

RiTides wrote:redirectors...

streamdragon wrote:redirecting units

Re-di-whut...?

grantosjones wrote:Welcome back!

Beastlord = Crown of Horns look in the big rulebook for several quality common items your characters can take crown of command, armor of destiny, talisman of protection, fencer's blades,etc.
Shaman = Lv2, Staff of Darkothshard of herdstone helps you get your magic off as would a level 3-4 big shaman
Shaman = Lv2, Hagtree Fetish in many ways, I feel safer in combat against dwarves than out getting shot at. Chalice of dark rain is also good for a turn of marching
Wargor = BSB, Beast Banner, Heavy Armour, Gnarled Hide shield too!

24 Gor = 2x HW, FCif you combine them to at least 40 with a horde, then they get extra attacks too.
24 Gor = 2x HW, FC
25 Ungor = Spears, FC
10 Warhounds = Poisoned Attacks these guys will get shot, so don't waste points, if they survive, let them charge a war machine, the poison won't really help that much
10 Warhounds = Poisoned Attacks
Chariot

5 Minotaurs = 2x HW, FC, Bloodkine has Blackened Plate (because he relentlessly targets these with Flame Cannon!)
9 Harpies = Scouts 2 units if possible, the more you have attacking his warmachines, the less he can shoot at you
32 Bestigor = FC, Banner of Swiftness
Beasts in the rulebook is good and geared towards us (we get a bonus to cast, shadow is also really good (easy to reduce the enemy weapon skill - the less attacks coming back at us the better

look at several of the other beast lists here as well as the Herdstone for ideas
ambushing is kind of iffy, but might work with a smaller unit (15-20 gors) they can take out a warmachine and then add combat res from charging a rear - watch out for oathstones though.

grantosjones wrote:Cheers, for the advice folks, as you can tell I've been out of the game for a good long while

Can you point me at said Enchanted item? Is it in the rulebook?

So, going for big units of Gors seems to be the general gist, a unit of 40 would certainly hold out a lot longer. I had planned to use one unit of 24 Gor in Ambush, but I could possibly use a smaller unit and have 40 Gor on the board.

Do I have to have Ungor Raiders on the board to bring on more? Or can I use ungor raiders in ambush if there are regular Ungor on the board? The reason I included the hounds was they move quickly and can screen my other units as they advance, a volley of Thunderer fire has decimated large units of Gor in the past. Also meant to point out they have Poisoned Attacks, to provide a little extra bite, pun intended

Anyone have any thoughts on how better to allocate the points from the warhounds if I choose not to use them? Should I throw in some more Chariots, or just spend the points on Ungor for ambushing?
Is it worth splitting the Bestigor into 2 smaller units? Also, character placement - BSB/General where?

Finally:

RiTides wrote:redirectors...

streamdragon wrote:redirecting units

Re-di-whut...?

Really I suppose the first thing I should have done would be to recommend Herdstone. It's a forum dedicated to Beastmen in WHFB and a truly excellent resource.

Crown of Command is in the Enchanted Items section of the main rule book. Those items are available to any army and many are definitely worth a look! Crown of Command basically makes Crown of Horns obsolete, unless you want spend the 75 points to make another unit stubborn.

Big block seem to be the way in 8th, as you tend to lose models pretty fast. A popular set up if you want to Ambush beastmen is to take a big block of 40 gors to field, and then a smaller unit of 20 or so to use Ambush. AHW is almost always the way to go, as it combines nicely with their Primal Fury rule.

As to Beastmen Ambush, yes it does require a unit on the board (of equal or greater models) for each unit you want to Ambush. Want to Ambush 2 units of Ungor Raiders? Have to have 2 units to field to go along with them. As per the Beastmen FAQ, regular Ungors do not allow you to Ambush Ungor Raiders; you have to have more Ungor Raiders. Ungor Raiders will do just as decent a job screening your Gors as Hounds will; plus as skirmishers they're harder to hit with regular BS-based shooting (-1 for shooting at skirmishers). I don't find the extra cost of Poison on hounds to be all that worthwhile, except perhaps as a small unit designed to run around a flank and hit war machines. Scouting Harpies are way better suited for that task though, and unit of 5 or 6 scouters isn't all that expensive.

Bestigors are definitely best in a single big unit. With models always getting their attacks in base to base (casualties are basically removed from the back) having numbers allows you to take a bit of a beating and still get to swing; and Bestigors swing very hard. One popular set up is to have them take the Banner of Discipline, then put your General (usually a Beastlord) into the unit. This ups his Ld by one for all the units using his Inspiring Presence rule; makes it easier to pass those all important Ld tests like Primal Fury and Panic!

As for redirecting units, they're small, fast (usually easily destroyed) units that are usually used to tilt your attacker off balance so you can catch them in the flank. You move them up into the opposing units face and park them at an angle. Your opponent can either charge them and expose a flank, or spend valuable time trying to jockey around them.

thanks so much for all this advice, I'll head over to Herdstone and check it out, then hopefully re-jig the list!

Going to drop the warhounds and chariot, and add another unit of harpies for sure. If I have the money/points I'll go for two hordes of Gors too

EDIT: have had a look at a few lists on Herdstone, a lot of them use Shard of the Herdstone - problem with it being I put the Stone in my deployment zone, shamans have to be within 6" of it to gain extra PD. Playing against Dwarfs, my Shamans will be useless so far away from the enemy, so I'll not be taking that.

New list, Minotaurs had to go to make room for the upgraded Shaman, gone for lots of Ungor Raiders to screen and get me there (didn't know they could march and fire - quick re-read of the BRB and I'm much more into them now).

Idea is to screen my big units from harm as long as possible, keep the warmachines busy with Harpies and then let the massed Beasties do their work!

--------------------------------
Beastlord - Crown of Command, Horn of Great Hunt, Hvy. Armour
Gt. Bray-Shaman - Lvl 3, Chalice of Dark Rain, AHW, (Shadow)
Bray-Shaman - Lvl 2, Hagtree Fetish, AHW, (Beasts or Wild, not decided yet)
Wargor - BSB, Beast Banner, Gnarled Hide, Heavy Armour, Shield

39 Gor - AHW, FC
39 Gor - AHW, FC
40 Ungor - Spears, FC
10 Ungor Raiders - musician
10 Ungor Raiders - musician
10 Ungor Raiders - musician

29 Bestigor - FC, Banner of Swiftness
6 Harpies - Scouts
6 Harpies - Scouts
(2497pts)