DoA lists

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**Tiarna Fuilteach**

As a change from my gk I have decided to start a Descent of Angels list. What units go into it besides assault squads? Is it just them and characters or is there sanguinary guard? Or vanguard veterans? Any help at all would be great thanks

**Mannahnin**

Vanguard are very thematic support, used to attack important enemy shooting units or transports on the drop. The more efficient/broadly useful choice is usually missile launcher devastators. In part because they can start hitting from turn 1, in part because they're more durable with cover (especially with a sang priest), and in part because you can get three units of them for ~ the cost of two units of vanguard.

**MFletch**

I would recommend taking honour guard as they can bring guns when you really do not want cc. Sometimes 4 plasma or 4 melta+flamer. This can give you an edge when facing something particularly nasty, let's say paladins.

Then assault marines also need help in cc, for example I would not want them to assault claw terminators particularly. So vanguard would be good. Vanguard also provide their decent descent and charge routine which can be useful in many ways.

The other unit with jump packs are sang. guard which a little vanilla and expensive.

Librarians and priests though plain are effective.

This ignore dev. squads and typhoons that can fit. Or doing half mech support. You should be careful as the dev. squad in particular will take the full brunt for a turn and dawn of war they have to walk on?

**Mannahnin**

Bear in mind that it can often be more advantageous to start on the table than to actually drop the whole army. DoA is a useful option, not a mandate.

**Cortez667**

I run 6 Sternguard w/ meltas in a drop pod (probably going to make them 10-man, so I can combat squad and take down 2 big tanks right from the start); DC dread., Death Company and chaplain in a stormraven; 20 assualt marines w/ melta (been thinking 1/2 flamers latly); 10 tactical w/ flamer, ML; to round it off, I'm taking a Librarian dread.w/ drop pod and 5 scout bikers with NO upgrades to outflank (don't underestimate these guys going against rear area troops); taking this list to a 2,000 point GT in L.A. this weekend.

I've tried Vanguard and I feel that the points could have been spent else where. The're fluffly, but thats about where they end. Same with Honour Guard. Sanguinary Priests are cool, but NOT worth the points at all. Plus my opponents generally target them (IC) for an easy kill point/ easy 90 victory points.

I've had 2/3 success with this list. Hope it helps.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like Mannahnin said, its nice to have some stuff on the table turn one. I agree.

**Tiarna Fuilteach**

So would three assault man squads, an honour guard squad and some vets as well as a libbie and priests for 1750?

**Halfpast_Yellow**

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:So would three assault man squads, an honour guard squad and some vets as well as a libbie and priests for 1750?

That's a pretty standard netlist.

Personally I think you need a hard hitter in there to back up the Assault Squads. Sanguinor, Death Company, etc.

**Tiarna Fuilteach**

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:So would three assault man squads, an honour guard squad and some vets as well as a libbie and priests for 1750?

That's a pretty standard netlist.

Personally I think you need a hard hitter in there to back up the Assault Squads. Sanguinor, Death Company, etc.

Can DC get descent of angels? and my club doesn't allow special characters, are sanguinary guard any use? the models look sweet

**Mannahnin**

Sang Guard are generally regarded as overpriced, as they cost the same as terminators who add a 3+ invulnerable on top of the 2+ armor save, and are good against a wider variety of targets. A squad or two of SG can be okay in an army with Dante, who makes them scoring and can give them a no-scatter drop to blow up a tank on arrival with their shortrange meltas.

All BA with jump packs have DoA. Check the wargear section.

No special characters? That concept largely lost favor after the Dark Angels codex came out and made one mandatory if you want to play Deathwing or Ravenwing.

**Tiarna Fuilteach**

Mannahnin wrote:Sang Guard are generally regarded as overpriced, as they cost the same as terminators who add a 3+ invulnerable on top of the 2+ armor save, and are good against a wider variety of targets. A squad or two of SG can be okay in an army with Dante, who makes them scoring and can give them a no-scatter drop to blow up a tank on arrival with their shortrange meltas.

All BA with jump packs have DoA. Check the wargear section.

No special characters? That concept largely lost favor after the Dark Angels codex came out and made one mandatory if you want to play Deathwing or Ravenwing.

It was mainly to prevent lists that are no fun to play against as many of us don't play comps, it avoids fatecrushers, driagostars, calgar, mephiston etc.

So I shouldn't throw in some sang guard, where do you stand on the honourguard melta spam idea?

**Vasara**

But when playing DoA list most of the time you can't DoA. You have more control of FNP bubbles and troop positioning when begin on the table from the start. That way your whole army takes the one round mandatory shooting and charges the same time on T2 (or T3).

**Tiarna Fuilteach**

Vasara wrote:But when playing DoA list most of the time you can't DoA. You have more control of FNP bubbles and troop positioning when begin on the table from the start. That way your whole army takes the one round mandatory shooting and charges the same time on T2 (or T3).[/quote

So are you advocating against doing a DoA list? Or are you saying to start some units on the table regardless of if I can DoA them all or not?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is the Sanguinor essential for this type of list?

**Vasara**

i'm not agaist DoA list but the deep strike itsef. Apart from vanvets you can't charge on the turn you show up and need to stand to be shot for one turn. And deepstriking in to cover is always a bit risky business. In a DoA list I'dd use Dante instead of sanguinor.

**cowmonaut**

Mannahnin wrote:Vanguard are very thematic support, used to attack important enemy shooting units or transports on the drop. The more efficient/broadly useful choice is usually missile launcher devastators. In part because they can start hitting from turn 1, in part because they're more durable with cover (especially with a sang priest), and in part because you can get three units of them for ~ the cost of two units of vanguard.

I always liked the idea of the Vanguard, and in a Blood Angels list you can actually use them. Even better they are almost necessary. Devastators can do a lot, but i you get say an Assault Squad and Vanguard squad in you can use your Vanguard to assault the enemy Devastators/Long Fangs or use the Assault Squad to Melta a transport and then use the Vanguard to hit the unit that was inside.

If you do decide on Vanguard, keep them cheap. They only need to survive 1 round of combat, they're more a screen for your more important units.

Mannahnin wrote:Bear in mind that it can often be more advantageous to start on the table than to actually drop the whole army. DoA is a useful option, not a mandate.

This is important to remember with a Jump list. DoA is an excellent option but its not outright required that you reserve your list. If you do though, the re-roll on the reserve roll can be handy. Its a dice game so this isn't always the case, but the last time I faced a DOA list almost the entire army my opponent brought came in. And with a D6" scatter instead of 2D6", he came in within striking range.

Cortez667 wrote:Sanguinary Priests are cool, but NOT worth the points at all. Plus my opponents generally target them (IC) for an easy kill point/ easy 90 victory points.

No offense, but you are insane! lol How is a 6" FNP + FC bubble not worthwhile? The Initiative 5 and Strength 5 is the only bit that gives me trouble, as a Space Wolves player, against Blood Angels as full Assault Squads cause too many wounds before i can strike. Then the FNP prevents me from killing more than a handful, usually just the ones hit by Power Weapons and Rending.

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:So would three assault man squads, an honour guard squad and some vets as well as a libbie and priests for 1750?

Yes. You can even take Dante if you wanted for more fun (just *love* how he makes my 220 point Thunderwolf HQ almost entirely useless).

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
Personally I think you need a hard hitter in there to back up the Assault Squads. Sanguinor, Death Company, etc.

Can DC get descent of angels? and my club doesn't allow special characters, are sanguinary guard any use? the models look sweet

Anything with a Jump Pack gets DoA. Not sure if you need anything that hits harder than S5 I5 to be honest. You need Melta to drop tanks but you will mulch infantry, and even most MCs, all with just normal Assault Squads.

**Tiarna Fuilteach**

cowmonaut wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:Vanguard are very thematic support, used to attack important enemy shooting units or transports on the drop. The more efficient/broadly useful choice is usually missile launcher devastators. In part because they can start hitting from turn 1, in part because they're more durable with cover (especially with a sang priest), and in part because you can get three units of them for ~ the cost of two units of vanguard.

I always liked the idea of the Vanguard, and in a Blood Angels list you can actually use them. Even better they are almost necessary. Devastators can do a lot, but i you get say an Assault Squad and Vanguard squad in you can use your Vanguard to assault the enemy Devastators/Long Fangs or use the Assault Squad to Melta a transport and then use the Vanguard to hit the unit that was inside.

If you do decide on Vanguard, keep them cheap. They only need to survive 1 round of combat, they're more a screen for your more important units.

Mannahnin wrote:Bear in mind that it can often be more advantageous to start on the table than to actually drop the whole army. DoA is a useful option, not a mandate.

This is important to remember with a Jump list. DoA is an excellent option but its not outright required that you reserve your list. If you do though, the re-roll on the reserve roll can be handy. Its a dice game so this isn't always the case, but the last time I faced a DOA list almost the entire army my opponent brought came in. And with a D6" scatter instead of 2D6", he came in within striking range.

Cortez667 wrote:Sanguinary Priests are cool, but NOT worth the points at all. Plus my opponents generally target them (IC) for an easy kill point/ easy 90 victory points.

No offense, but you are insane! lol How is a 6" FNP + FC bubble not worthwhile? The Initiative 5 and Strength 5 is the only bit that gives me trouble, as a Space Wolves player, against Blood Angels as full Assault Squads cause too many wounds before i can strike. Then the FNP prevents me from killing more than a handful, usually just the ones hit by Power Weapons and Rending.

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:So would three assault man squads, an honour guard squad and some vets as well as a libbie and priests for 1750?

Yes. You can even take Dante if you wanted for more fun (just *love* how he makes my 220 point Thunderwolf HQ almost entirely useless).

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
Personally I think you need a hard hitter in there to back up the Assault Squads. Sanguinor, Death Company, etc.

Can DC get descent of angels? and my club doesn't allow special characters, are sanguinary guard any use? the models look sweet

Anything with a Jump Pack gets DoA. Not sure if you need anything that hits harder than S5 I5 to be honest. You need Melta to drop tanks but you will mulch infantry, and even most MCs, all with just normal Assault Squads.

Cheers for the help there mate, what would you advise for equipping the vanguard squad and what size should I make them?

**Cortez667**

cowmonaut wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:Vanguard are very thematic support, used to attack important enemy shooting units or transports on the drop. The more efficient/broadly useful choice is usually missile launcher devastators. In part because they can start hitting from turn 1, in part because they're more durable with cover (especially with a sang priest), and in part because you can get three units of them for ~ the cost of two units of vanguard.

I always liked the idea of the Vanguard, and in a Blood Angels list you can actually use them. Even better they are almost necessary. Devastators can do a lot, but i you get say an Assault Squad and Vanguard squad in you can use your Vanguard to assault the enemy Devastators/Long Fangs or use the Assault Squad to Melta a transport and then use the Vanguard to hit the unit that was inside.

If you do decide on Vanguard, keep them cheap. They only need to survive 1 round of combat, they're more a screen for your more important units.

Mannahnin wrote:Bear in mind that it can often be more advantageous to start on the table than to actually drop the whole army. DoA is a useful option, not a mandate.

This is important to remember with a Jump list. DoA is an excellent option but its not outright required that you reserve your list. If you do though, the re-roll on the reserve roll can be handy. Its a dice game so this isn't always the case, but the last time I faced a DOA list almost the entire army my opponent brought came in. And with a D6" scatter instead of 2D6", he came in within striking range.

Cortez667 wrote:Sanguinary Priests are cool, but NOT worth the points at all. Plus my opponents generally target them (IC) for an easy kill point/ easy 90 victory points.

No offense, but you are insane! lol How is a 6" FNP + FC bubble not worthwhile? The Initiative 5 and Strength 5 is the only bit that gives me trouble, as a Space Wolves player, against Blood Angels as full Assault Squads cause too many wounds before i can strike. Then the FNP prevents me from killing more than a handful, usually just the ones hit by Power Weapons and Rending.

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:So would three assault man squads, an honour guard squad and some vets as well as a libbie and priests for 1750?

Yes. You can even take Dante if you wanted for more fun (just *love* how he makes my 220 point Thunderwolf HQ almost entirely useless).

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
Personally I think you need a hard hitter in there to back up the Assault Squads. Sanguinor, Death Company, etc.

Can DC get descent of angels? and my club doesn't allow special characters, are sanguinary guard any use? the models look sweet

Anything with a Jump Pack gets DoA. Not sure if you need anything that hits harder than S5 I5 to be honest. You need Melta to drop tanks but you will mulch infantry, and even most MCs, all with just normal Assault Squads.

I think San Priests ARE pretty cool, I just find that in my local meta, that the points are better spent else where in my list. On Dante: AGain, extremly over priced. If he had eternal warrior, he'd be sweet. (not trying to start another 'Dante' debate, though...)

**Vasara**

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:

Cheers for the help there mate, what would you advise for equipping the vanguard squad and what size should I make them?

I'dd say 5 man, jp, 1 pf. Add in pw if you have spare points. Tricky part is tu ensure FC if you didn't get lucky on red thirst roll. You may have to deep strike squad of assault marines with priest right nex to the enemy vanguard is going to charge. I5 and S5 helps alot.