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Do gloom prisms work on force weapons, as its a psychic attack?

Normal FW - yes, as you are targetting a Necron unit

NFW - technically no, as you are changing their weapon to being an ID causing one and, from memory, you have to target a necron unit to trigger this.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Normal FW - yes, as you are targetting a Necron unit

NFW - technically no, as you are changing their weapon to being an ID causing one and, from memory, you have to target a necron unit to trigger this.

ok, thanks.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Normal FW - yes, as you are targetting a Necron unit

NFW - technically no, as you are changing their weapon to being an ID causing one and, from memory, you have to target a necron unit to trigger this.

Why are the two different? NFW and regular force weapons work in exactly the same way, don't they?

NFW is the same as FW, it's the psychic chior rule where they all cast as one and then the unsaved wounds count as ID. That gets iffy. But if an independant character with an NFW uses it, it is the same as a normal force weapon.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

NFW - technically no, as you are changing their weapon to being an ID causing one and, from memory, you have to target a necron unit to trigger this.

Isn't hitting someone in CC the same as targetting though? You have to choose who to hit, make rolls and so on.

The difference works like this:

Normal Force Weapon: A model suffers an unsaved wound from this weapon. The psyker is then permitted to target the wounded model with the psychic power (inherent to the force weapon) that causes Instant Death.

Nemesis Force Weapons (except when used by ICs): A model in the enemy unit suffers an unsaved wound from one of these weapons in the attacking unit. The entire unit, per Brotherhood of Psykers, then takes a psychic test. All wounds they cause in this phase with Nemesis Force Weapons cause Instant Death, including all wounds they just caused.

In the first scenario, the psyker targets the model that suffered the wound, and inflicts ID on it. In the second scenario, the psyker adds an effect to its weapons, but may only do so if an enemy model suffered an unsaved wound from one such weapon. Slightly different, but by RAW, a gloom prison (or similar effect - like the Aegis) will only work against normal force weapons or NFWs activated by Independent Characters.

Xca|iber wrote:The difference works like this:

Normal Force Weapon: A model suffers an unsaved wound from this weapon. The psyker is then permitted to target the wounded model with the psychic power (inherent to the force weapon) that causes Instant Death.

Nemesis Force Weapons (except when used by ICs): A model in the enemy unit suffers an unsaved wound from one of these weapons in the attacking unit. The entire unit, per Brotherhood of Psykers, then takes a psychic test. All wounds they cause in this phase with Nemesis Force Weapons cause Instant Death, including all wounds they just caused.

In the first scenario, the psyker targets the model that suffered the wound, and inflicts ID on it. In the second scenario, the psyker adds an effect to its weapons, but may only do so if an enemy model suffered an unsaved wound from one such weapon. Slightly different, but by RAW, a gloom prison (or similar effect - like the Aegis) will only work against normal force weapons or NFWs activated by Independent Characters.

Oh I see. Well, that's a bit buggy.
OK, what about Jaws of the Wolf? Does that target, or is it a line?

The FAQ states that the first unit touched is the target for Jaws

rigeld2 wrote:The FAQ states that the first unit touched is the target for Jaws

what about subsequent hits?

They are affected without being targeted.

JoWW is treated like a line template like blood lance.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Normal FW - yes, as you are targetting a Necron unit

NFW - technically no, as you are changing their weapon to being an ID causing one and, from memory, you have to target a necron unit to trigger this.

Why are the two different? NFW and regular force weapons work in exactly the same way, don't they?

no, they are completely different.


Force Weapons work by making a SINGLE attack cause Instant Death.

Nemisis Force Weapons work by making the entire unit's attacks cause ID.



And the Force Weapon psychic power in both cases is targeting the model with the Force Weapon. It isn't directly effecting the model getting hit by the attacks.

Its just like if a Psychic power gave them +1Str(like Hammerhand), you couldn't use the Gloom Prism there, Force Weapon psychic activation isn't any different.

Draigo wrote:JoWW is treated like a line template attack that has nothing to do with templates, like blood lance.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:And the Force Weapon psychic power in both cases is targeting the model with the Force Weapon. It isn't directly effecting the model getting hit by the attacks.

No.

"The psyker may then take a Psychic test to use the weapon's power against any one opponent that suffered a wound"