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Well recently I have been playing about with alot of different lists, I will from the start the one thing I would be tempted to change is the Stormraven for a another redeemer, problem is time and money, I actually have a old crusader I never use however getting the updated to GK will require some FW kits so I may not even get them in time (and I don't really like crusaders, not in GK list anyways, so general idea is the venerable + a squad goes in the stormraven, this will highly depend on who I am playing and who goes first, the turn everything gets out (usually scattered) I will using the Raven to alpha strike a single unit while PoM a tank with the melta. HQ wise I have been slightly torn between a normal GM and Draigo, basically its been a choice between grenades or eternal warrior, atm ET seems like the most useful but if I was going with a GM then I think I would be adding a additional Rhino so I can make better use of outflank if needed.

Generally I am happy with the list, just really the HQ and Raven I am not 100% sure about (of course not really a whole lot I can do about the Raven atm).



HQ

Draigo
Total 275pts


Elite

Venerable Dreadnought
- Assault Cannon
- Psybolt ammunition
- Heavy Flamer
- Psyflame ammunition
Total 205pts


Troops


(5) Paladins
- 2 Incinerators
- 3 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 1 Nemesis Daemon Hammer
- Brotherhood Banner
Total 310pts

(10 ) Grey Knight Strike Squad
- 2 psycannons
- 1 Nemesis Daemon Hammer
- Rhino
- Dozer Blade
Total 275pts

(10 ) Grey Knight Strike Squad
- 2 psycannons
- 1 Nemesis Daemon Hammer
Total 230pts


Fast Attack

Stormraven
- twin-linked assault cannon
- Multi-melta
Total 205pts

Heavy Support

Land Raider Redeemer
- Psybolt ammunition
Total 250pts

Draigo is a decent HQ but your not really taking advantage of using Paladins for troops, given your elites only have 1 selection you could easily use something else as HQ and stick the paladins in under elites choices.

If you decide to go with draigo you could consider dividing the paladins into groups of 2 and 3, or 1 and 2's to make the most of draigo's paladin for troops rule if you haven't already.


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I like ravens so I can't say much there , take the melta off perhaps put psybolt ammo on instead is my preference on that but your list is different

I would actually prefer it to have psybolts on the stormraven (as I have the FW psycannons on it), problem was finding the points for it :( I Wouldn't take the melta off, always handy for popping big scary tanks early on

Diving the paladins has the flip side of losing heavy weapons, if I wanted more paladins I could slip another 5 in with psycannons. The only really viable way would be to drop a strike squad and the dread or dread and storm raven and I don't think I really gain much from that. First way I don't gain a scoring unit and have the amount of psycannon shoots all coming from one unit rather than two (unless I divide them between both squads). 2nd way means I have to deep strike them, not so keen on massive amounts of paladins, they are just to expensive and easy to kill with pies to be a effective, I know how I deal with Paladins as grey knight player, I rarely find them a problem, I would expect a fair few DE and GK players.

I like your list. However the point of taking Psybolt on the stormraven because you have Psycannons on it confuses me. Psycannons don't get the benefit of Psybolt..... so why does it matter if you take psybolt on the stormraven? Drop that and take something else for the 30 points, maybe put some halberds in the strike squads.

Bolter type weapons and auto cannons are the only guns that benefit from psybolt ammo, look at your codex.

Also agree, you are using a 275 point HQ to make paladins troops, yet you only took 1 squad of 5 and no librarian to protect/buff them. You are better off using a 225 point librarian and save 50 points for some thing else than a crazy expensive HQ.

OK to both you Psybolts effect assault cannons as well, giving psybolts to a assault cannon effectively turns it into a psycannon minus the assault weapon (which you would never use anyways), the model has the FW psycannons which is what I meant :p I have looked at my codex many times and it was one of the first things I spotted when I noticed dreadnoughts couldn't have psycannons.

@ Roguejm11 - Well I'm not taking him simply because he makes Paladins troops, more that he is a GM who I can direct a fair amount of ID attacks aimed at my Paladins, I'm getting annoyed with people hitting my GM with powerfists :p main thing is it opens up the use of grandstrategy more, rather than having to make addional units scoring I can use other things like scout/outflank, counter attack depending on the game and what is needed.

Well why did you say you were using Psybolt on the Stormraven if you just have Psycannons on it? Or are you using the Psycannons as Assault Cannons? Because at least at my LGS you can't use Psycannons on the stormraven in tournaments because it's not an option in the codex, unless I'm missing something haha.

And I didn't mean to insult you by stating that Psycannons don't benefit from Psybolt, just wanted to point out the fact so you didn't take Psybolt expecting to get the benefit and then realizing in the first game you play that you do not.

The list says hes not using psycannons on the SR, I was talking about returning the SR melta to its default and using psybolts I don't know where someone got having psycannons on a SR o.o

he said he has Forgeworld Pyscannons on his Stormraven lol idk o.O

in my opinion:

1. drop driago, take a librarian, stuff paladins and libby in the stormraven
2. drop the land raider, take either interceptors, a teleport ing dreadknight, or some other fast option to run with the stormraven/paladin deathstar or some basic autocannon dreads
3. spend a few more points differentiating the paladin unit, with only 5 boys the banner may not be worth it

1: Remove the vendread, banner, dozer blade and LR, go get 3 normal psyflemen
2: Give your 10men GKSS team ( the one has a rhino) psybolt
3: Give another GKSS team a rhino

--------------------------
5paladins:
sword+sb
sword+special weapon
halberd+sb
halberd+special weapon
hammer

always like this

iBambam wrote:Well why did you say you were using Psybolt on the Stormraven if you just have Psycannons on it? Or are you using the Psycannons as Assault Cannons? Because at least at my LGS you can't use Psycannons on the stormraven in tournaments because it's not an option in the codex, unless I'm missing something haha.

And I didn't mean to insult you by stating that Psycannons don't benefit from Psybolt, just wanted to point out the fact so you didn't take Psybolt expecting to get the benefit and then realizing in the first game you play that you do not.

Stormravens, dreadnoughts cannot have psycannons, they can however have a assault cannon, the heavy version of a psycannon (say like on a terminator) is exactly the same as assault cannon with +1 strength and thus giving a dreadnought, razor back, raider or stormraven armed with a assault cannon (or twin-linked) psybolts will turn a assault cannon into a psycannon, I assume this was intention so the people with FW bits would still be able to use the models! so yes, you can use psycannons on GK vehicle if you create them using the upgrades available in the codex.

Its fine, I assumed you would click onto it what I meant, when you didn't it caused confusion, my bad.

Sasa0mg wrote:The list says hes not using psycannons on the SR, I was talking about returning the SR melta to its default and using psybolts I don't know where someone got having psycannons on a SR o.o

People only skim read when checking out lists, its my fault, I caused the confusion.

Grundz wrote:in my opinion:

1. drop driago, take a librarian, stuff paladins and libby in the stormraven
2. drop the land raider, take either interceptors, a teleport ing dreadknight, or some other fast option to run with the stormraven/paladin deathstar or some basic autocannon dreads
3. spend a few more points differentiating the paladin unit, with only 5 boys the banner may not be worth it

I would always choose a Raider over a stormraven, simply because the stormraven either relied on going first or having psyhic communion, if you don't go first and don't reserve it and leave it on the table it just gets blown to bits leaving those Paladins to walk across the table, its also much easier to deploy the raider in cover unless your playing on a city fight board, the main reason I have a raider is so if I don't go first I can have my GM/Draigo on the table and use psychic communion to get it on the table quickly rather than risk it turning up turn 4, usually it will be on the table turn 2, 3 at the latest if I went 2nd. The suggestion you made will simply mean I risk having 700pts off the table for up to 4 turns giving my opponent a massive advantage..

apple1988218 wrote:1: Remove the vendread, banner, dozer blade and LR, go get 3 normal psyflemen
2: Give your 10men GKSS team ( the one has a rhino) psybolt
3: Give another GKSS team a rhino

I'm pretty sure your trying to bankrupt me

Honestly when it comes to the list the only things I was considering changing are:

Draigo to a GM, removing the stormraven, maybe adding more Paladins, giving the other strike squad a rhino again (I dropped this so I could fit in Draigo), giving the SR psybolts.

Modelwise I have this to play with

5 of the old metal (but this is giving me painting to do, might be 10 if my mate finds the other 5 he had! this also means 2 incinerators unless I can find some metal psycannons)
Crusader (which is painted a BR one and would need a Redeemer kit from FW)
5 Paladins, 4 halberds, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer (will need to be finished)
Coteaz (which would be fine as a normal Inquisitor)
I do have a bunch of Dreads I never used in my Bloodraven army however again this means additional painting and money (getting the autocannon arms) and I had planned on getting a couple of auto-cannon dreads with the FW body's



The basics of the list work fine for me and fit my play style, just looking for fine turning, not a completely new engine

I would always choose a Raider over a stormraven, simply because the stormraven either relied on going first or having psyhic communion, if you don't go first and don't reserve it and leave it on the table it just gets blown to bits leaving those Paladins to walk across the table, its also much easier to deploy the raider in cover unless your playing on a city fight board, the main reason I have a raider is so if I don't go first I can have my GM/Draigo on the table and use psychic communion to get it on the table quickly rather than risk it turning up turn 4, usually it will be on the table turn 2, 3 at the latest if I went 2nd. The suggestion you made will simply mean I risk having 700pts off the table for up to 4 turns giving my opponent a massive advantage..

with a 3+ cover ive had absolutely no issues getting the stormraven to survive the first turn!

Thats assuming you have suitable cover to put it in, I've only played at this place a couple times and from what I remember a lot of it is abit low and the flying base is always going to be a factor, If I go first then great, I'm happy enough to go with a 4+ cover save tbh.

Taking the lib means I have to rethink the list completely, the lose the grand strategy and the ability to create scoring units as needed, the ability to scout/outflank, changes a whole lot of things, it also changes how I arm Paladins, that changes far more in how the list works than taking a GM over Draigo.

I don't think that's a good idea to change Driago to a GM, Paladins need someone to protect them---Libby or Draigo.

Another point is that with Draigo in list, you can save the grand strategy for other things, such as outflanking the GKSS, or giving GKSS and paladins reroll 1's to wound/ counter-attack rule.


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itsonlyme wrote:I'm pretty sure your trying to bankrupt me

or maybe you can try some soladins in your list?
2 soladins with hammer will be a good plan
Just give them the mighty hammer, and outflank them to kill some vehicle ( or something like 6 long fangs without a pf ) or just let them to hold the objs.

I think you have enough GKT models, right?

Outflank a paladin! its much more fun when you do with a venerable dreadnought! all the joys of a paladin with hammer plus the added bonus of a incinerator and psycannon (effectively)

I could very well add some more paladins, just means losing the raven and adding a rhino back to the strikes, not sure if I have enough hammer's for two, only 1 on a box :(

*edit*

This is the other list I had been thinking about taking, only thing is I don't really like the idea of having to DS the 2nd unit of Paladins

HQ

Lord Kaldor Draigo
Total 275pts


Troops

(10) Paladins
- 2 Psycannon’s
- 2 Incinerators
- 6 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 1 Mastercrafted Nemesis Force Halberd
- 2 Nemesis Daemon Hammer
- Brotherhood banner
Total 625pts

(10 ) Grey Knight Strike Squad
- 2 psycannons
- 1 Nemesis Daemon Hammer
- Psybolt ammunition
- Rhino
- Dozer Blade
Total 295pts

(10 ) Grey Knight Strike Squad
- 2 psycannons
- 1 Nemesis Daemon Hammer
- Psybolt ammunition
- Rhino
- Dozer Blade
Total 295pts


Heavy Support

Land Raider Redeemer
- Psybolt ammunition
Total

//edit nevermind!