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Standing in games workshop the other day I found it hard to get inspired by any of my usual chaos space marine models. I had my heart set on buying something but I couldn't see anything that inspired me! Well nothing that wouldn't require me to buy other 'bits' and work on anyway. I do have a project in mind but I won't be starting that till I'm settled into my new flat. I'm rambling now so I'll continue lol. My girl friend looking fed up I spotted the dark eldar wracks. I've loved these guys since I read about them in the codex when it first came out and their models I think look fantastic so my mind was made up. £30 later I was up one pack of wracks and one urien.
I'm wanting to expand on this make an entire army using only the more 'exotic' units from the dark eldar army list. only problem is although I've been picking up gw models, painting them and the likes for a good number of years I'm only now just starting to the gaming side of things. The few small lists I've thrown together so far have only been csm lists and one blood angel. So what I'm saying is I'm looking for help off you lovely people dark eldar player or not.

In my mind I can see two large squads of wracks, grotesques, a talos or two, beast master/masters if it's viable to fit them in, mandrakes and maybe an incubi squad just for a pearl of 'normality' among a sea of madness.

I don't know where I would begin with such a list. I'm not looking for a ultra competitive list more of a themed army that's playable and might not get hammered all the time lol.

I think what I'm trying to say is HELP!

So you want a portal list. Just with wracks instead of wyches. The problem with portal lists is that if you go second you will lose 98% of the time. As far as a theme goes. A small grotesque squad with urien can be interesting, but they aren't very competetive at all and will most likely get hammered quite a bit.
The other probelm will be AT. Talosi are great out of portals but not so much starting on the board.

Above all stay away from mandrakes. Honestly the models look amazing but the rules are awful.

Akroma06 wrote:So you want a portal list. Just with wracks instead of wyches. The problem with portal lists is that if you go second you will lose 98% of the time. As far as a theme goes. A small grotesque squad with urien can be interesting, but they aren't very competetive at all and will most likely get hammered quite a bit.
The other probelm will be AT. Talosi are great out of portals but not so much starting on the board.

Above all stay away from mandrakes. Honestly the models look amazing but the rules are awful.

Sounds like a Venom Spam General because this couldn't further from the truth. Bring NS and FF on all of your WWP carriers and play smart with them. If your not going first, don't deploy in such a way where your opponent can alpha strike you. 3 Grots and a Haemy in a raider make a great delivery system for at least one of the WWPs, I generally take two more with Haamies and wracks in venoms. This gives you some good redundancy and amazing deployment options if you can get all three on the board and spaced effectively.

Scourges, Talos, Chronos, and yes even /gasp Mandrakes are are amazing on WWP lists. Mandrakes are one pain token away from being broken for their point cost, the key to using them effectively in a WWP list is to take advantage of the fact they can virtually assault anything on the entire board when you combine outflanking with WWP deployment, so pick a juicy target and get them that PT fast. They then become assault marines with super storm bolters, stealth, invulnerable save and FNP...(instead of just a 3+ AS) higher initiative...and they are the same point cost. People undervalue them because they don't work well in interweb cookie cutter spam lists, but they are a very effective unit if used correctly.

My general strat with WWP with all my units has evolved into bring um big, and bring a chrono or two. That way you can stack PT's quickly and more effectively.




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Also, he is expensive as Frak but Vect's steal the initiative, and hanging with the Grots he generally can stick around long enough to get into the fray and he'll go beast mode in CC.

Uh, people don't like mandrakes because they have stealth, move through cover, and NO grenades. They are an assault unit that dies to guard in cover.

I wish WWP lists worked in the competitive environment (used to run a great one in 4th ed) but with TLOS and a savy opponent, WWPs become a liability. It still works great against a few army types, but suffers heavily against alot more. Other DE for instance.

gardeth wrote:Uh, people don't like mandrakes because they have stealth, move through cover, and NO grenades. They are an assault unit that dies to guard in cover.

I wish WWP lists worked in the competitive environment (used to run a great one in 4th ed) but with TLOS and a savy opponent, WWPs become a liability. It still works great against a few army types, but suffers heavily against alot more. Other DE for instance.

Their 4/4 assault 2 pinning for all intents and purposes is their grenades. To say they get rolled by guard is just completely disingenuous, unless they are attacking a power blob but those roll most assault units if created properly, so that proves absolutely nothing...

Also, if every single infantry unit on the board is in cover the turn they arrive, it is certainly viable to get them a pain token from a crono and wait a turn before assaulting with them. I have seldom found this necessary however as even forfeiting initiative their are a plethora of targets you can take out.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

gardeth wrote:Uh, people don't like mandrakes because they have stealth, move through cover, and NO grenades. They are an assault unit that dies to guard in cover.

I wish WWP lists worked in the competitive environment (used to run a great one in 4th ed) but with TLOS and a savy opponent, WWPs become a liability. It still works great against a few army types, but suffers heavily against alot more. Other DE for instance.

Their 4/4 assault 2 pinning for all intents and purposes is their grenades. To say they get rolled by guard is just completely disingenuous, unless they are attacking a power blob but those roll most assault units if created properly, so that proves absolutely nothing...

Also, if every single infantry unit on the board is in cover the turn they arrive, it is certainly viable to get them a pain token from a crono and wait a turn before assaulting with them. I have seldom found this necessary however as even forfeiting initiative their are a plethora of targets you can take out.

Ok, lets say that everything you said above is true and effective, even then, your other elite choices are significantly better. Mandrakes fall in the same category as the talos right now, beautiful models whose rules just don't work in the competitive environment. Maybe they'll work in 6th.

Talos do pretty well in WWP lists. Mandrakes are too poor to have a home anywhere.

No other Elite can out flank, move through cover, have stealth, have a pinning shooting weapon etc. Mandrakes are a surgical tool that can get to things like long fangs, blasterborn, dev squads, and the like more effectively then anything else in the entire DE codex.

They are the only thing in the entire codex that can out flank, and if you don't see the tactical flexibility this provides to a WWP list then your simply speaking out of a lack of exposure to the nuances of said list.

This is further proven by your disregard for the Talos. It's exactly what it needs to be in a WWP list.

The emperor is Scottish wrote:In my mind I can see two large squads of wracks, grotesques, a talos or two, beast master/masters if it's viable to fit them in, mandrakes and maybe an incubi squad just for a pearl of 'normality' among a sea of madness.

I don't know where I would begin with such a list. I'm not looking for a ultra competitive list more of a themed army that's playable and might not get hammered all the time lol.

I think what I'm trying to say is HELP!

Normally I refuse to build lists, but this is such an innocent plea and isn't looking for competitive play - I am touched.

1750 Army

2x Haem - WWP
1x Haem - Liquifier & Power Weapon
Baron Sathypants

3 Trueblasters in Raider w. FF (WWP Haem goes here)
3 Trueblasters in Raider w. FF
5 Grotesques (Power Weapon Haem goes here)

5 Wracks w. Liquifier in Raider w. FF (WWP Haem goes here)
2x 10 Wracks w. 2x Liquifiers and Acothyst w. Scissorhand (Scissorhand is easy drop if you want Liquifiers on all Haems or to free up points for other extras)

3 Beastmasters 5 Kyhmarae, 4 Flocks (Baron goes here)

2x Talos w. Haywire Blaster & TL Liquifier
-----------------------------------

Not too shabby, and seems to fill most of your requests (Incubi could work...but I'd want to drop the Grots and a Haem to afford them instead, and the Grots are more flavorful with your otherwise Coven desires)

The gameplan is - Sathypants hopefully gives you first turn.
Ravager and all the Raiders start on the board (in DoW just the Wrack Raider starts on the board, as far up as you feel comfortable with/have cover with/depending on who has 1st turn)
Turn 1 they all ride up - the Haems drop the portals in strategic spots (depending on the situation maybe only drop one portal)
Trueblasters, Raiders, and Ravager go to town on vehicles - with a general focus on transport vehicles - you'll want victims once your assault forces arrive.
Turn 2+ you start sweeping in with your assault units. The Talos try to get FNP and/or smash heavy armor.
The Grots and their furious charging Haem smash into the toughest foe who lacks Str 10 and grind them to dust, possibly go punch vehicles if needed.
Wracks assault mobs of weaker infantry.
Beastmasters go drown deathstars in too many attacks to count.

I'll admit in a general competitive sense I'd rather have Wyches than either the Wracks or the Grots (and Wracks instead of Grots) as the army currently feels fairly Troop light to me - but I do like a really Troop heavy army, I'll admit. That said, the Grots are absorbing up 250+ points for a unit that is 'pretty solid' so it really is a fluff choice. Another option is to sack the Beasts for more Troops and have Baron Sathy join the Grots (with or without the Haem - who could be dropped also) that will give you Grots with Grenades who will be darn hard to ever kill with shooting and will free up some points to buy additional toys.

I would overall call this army 'competitively friendly'. Once you figure out how to play it your friends will learn to hate how nasty and fast it can be. Taken to a local tourney it could do well depending on the meta. Taken to a serious tourney I would expect to have a lot of fun chatting with your opponent as he probably rips you apart.

ShadarLogoth wrote:No other Elite can out flank, move through cover, have stealth, have a pinning shooting weapon etc. Mandrakes are a surgical tool that can get to things like long fangs, blasterborn, dev squads, and the like more effectively then anything else in the entire DE codex.

They are the only thing in the entire codex that can out flank, and if you don't see the tactical flexibility this provides to a WWP list then your simply speaking out of a lack of exposure to the nuances of said list.

This is further proven by your disregard for the Talos. It's exactly what it needs to be in a WWP list.

I ran a WWP list from 3rd to 4th edition. It died in 5th ed. Alls it takes is an opponent with an understanding of how a WWP list works and your SOL. Your right in that a Talos only really works in a WWP list, but as the WWP list itself isn't competitive I don't like the talos (which sucks because I ADORE the model...)

A WWP is a list that will work sometimes against some lists, but fall flat on its face against knowlegable opponents with competative lists. Its perhaps rather telling that one of the hardest counters to a WWP list is a mech d.eldar list.

Back to the mandrakes. What kills longfangs, devs, etc better then them and sooner? Massed venoms. By the time the outflanking mandrakes manage to get to 1 squad of longfangs mechdar will have killed all 3 squads. Plus having the extra blaster/born to shoot at vehicles/termies or the like. Not to mention that a squad of mandrakes assaulting a pack of longfangs in cover has a good chance of getting routed.