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Here's a little move that I've yet to test... turning a minimum unit of Empire state troops into a one-turn anvil.

Start with a unit of 10 Spearmen (or Free Company) and buy them a champion and musician. This costs 62 pts. Field them 2-wide, five deep. Add in a (never) naked Captain with either the Crown of Command or Rod of Command; he'll run you another 85 - 100 pts. So, altogether, only 147 - 162 pts.

Their job is to run out in front of a large enemy unit while your flanking units move into position. Try to position them as close as possible to the center of the enemy unit so that they are forced to either charge them or reform and try to move around. You want the enemy to charge them. If they take the effort to go around - that's good too!

If he takes the bait, stand and hold. Now, according to the command group rules, the Sgt and Musician will displace the Captain to the second rank as there is only two models in the first. This reduced frontage protects him from harm and limits the amount of attacks coming at your unit. Unless your opponent has a bajillion attacks per model, its very unlikely he will kill all ten Spears / Free Company in one round.

Now, inevitably your anvil will lose combat. Which is when you spring the Crown (stubborn 8) or Rod of Command (insane courage), leaving your opponent's unit stuck in it's tracks. Que flank charges on your turn or a frontal charge from your own infantry bus. Since the captain and his remaining unit are likely to be in the center of your opponent's front rank, you can limit the amount of models in base-to-base with your infantry bus by snuggling in to his side. This will help you win Steadfast if needed.

I chose Spearmen because they have cheap command options and light armor. Very minor, I know, but against some enemied it might help. I wouldn't buy them shields. I chose the Captain because he's the cheapest character.

Of course, this small of unit is susceptible to magic and shooting, so that's a con. And since it's a trick, it will probably only work against your regular opponents a couple of times. But hey, even if they know about it, they're going to have to deal with it and it's pulling attention away from the rest of your army.

Flagellant units can do the same thing, but I prefer to use mine as wild-eyed hammers and you might not have the points open in Rares. Also, it's an alternative for people who pass on flagellants for fluff reasons.

What do you think?

I still say take a warrior priest bring Flaggies to core and take a congo line. It will work better, you take a champ and all their attacks have to go into him first turn and they are unbreakable. Also they are core

It's a pretty cheap trick, and likely to get you labeled TFG. Even then, you're still spending 147 points to hold an enemy unit in place for one turn, you having the space to move a key unit into flanking range without exposing its own flank, and all the enemy attacks resolving at one initiative, so that the guy hiding in the second rank doesn't step up after everyone else was killed by regular attacks, and gets wasted by someone with ASL.

If you're going to be TFG, might as well just do it with a conga line of Flagellants. It's costs the same and there's no test to make.

I really do think (this is as an Empire player mind you) That empire can be TFG's wetdream army. Honestly we can play soft but who would want to when dual stank, walter and more warmachines than should ever exist ever can go into a list can auto win most games.

How are you auto winning every game with dual stanks?

Admittedly I haven't tried a stank build yet but I have lost the last 3 games I've played against dark elves :/

I have not lost a game with dual stank waralter gunline as I normally give up 0-200 victory points in a 2500 game

Seems like a good idea to play against certain armies, however super shooty armies like my WE and others will see that as an easy target and pick it off. Also it seems to have a weakness like many fast cav/scout units have against magic, one good magic missile and the worry is put to an end. Other then that though would be funny to see ten guys hold up fifty

I like the human version of the flying dreadlord more.
General of the Empire: Full Plate, shield, dragon helm, stubborn crown, 4+ ward, warrior bane, Pegasus.
1+ armor, 4+ ward, 2+ ward vs fire. Stubborn. Flies.
240 points.

Cheap enough you can take him in addition to a War Alter.
(2+ armor, 4+ ward from alter, re-roll armor saves, speculum, and sword of Righteous Steel, heavy armor, enchanted shield).


-Matt

Johnny-Crass wrote:I have not lost a game with dual stank waralter gunline as I normally give up 0-200 victory points in a 2500 game

That'll be pretty matchup dependent. As long as you don't face someone who can pit/sun the tanks, they tend to hold their points. Alternately, if they can tie up your tanks with something cheap (like slaves) and get into the war machines with anything at all, you've probably got problems.

As to the original post- its a little gamey, but not a terrible idea. The problem is mostly establishing a situation that will win you big victory points *if* you get them to charge your dart, and *if* you can counter charge with something tasty. In short, clever enough, but I think it won't get quite as much mileage as you might think.

Swan-of-War wrote:Here's a little move that I've yet to test... turning a minimum unit of Empire state troops into a one-turn anvil.

Start with a unit of 10 Spearmen (or Free Company) and buy them a champion and musician. This costs 62 pts. Field them 2-wide, five deep. Add in a (never) naked Captain with either the Crown of Command or Rod of Command; he'll run you another 85 - 100 pts. So, altogether, only 147 - 162 pts.

Their job is to run out in front of a large enemy unit while your flanking units move into position. Try to position them as close as possible to the center of the enemy unit so that they are forced to either charge them or reform and try to move around. You want the enemy to charge them. If they take the effort to go around - that's good too!

If he takes the bait, stand and hold. Now, according to the command group rules, the Sgt and Musician will displace the Captain to the second rank as there is only two models in the first. This reduced frontage protects him from harm and limits the amount of attacks coming at your unit. Unless your opponent has a bajillion attacks per model, its very unlikely he will kill all ten Spears / Free Company in one round.

Now, inevitably your anvil will lose combat. Which is when you spring the Crown (stubborn 8) or Rod of Command (insane courage), leaving your opponent's unit stuck in it's tracks. Que flank charges on your turn or a frontal charge from your own infantry bus. Since the captain and his remaining unit are likely to be in the center of your opponent's front rank, you can limit the amount of models in base-to-base with your infantry bus by snuggling in to his side. This will help you win Steadfast if needed.

I chose Spearmen because they have cheap command options and light armor. Very minor, I know, but against some enemied it might help. I wouldn't buy them shields. I chose the Captain because he's the cheapest character.

Of course, this small of unit is susceptible to magic and shooting, so that's a con. And since it's a trick, it will probably only work against your regular opponents a couple of times. But hey, even if they know about it, they're going to have to deal with it and it's pulling attention away from the rest of your army.

Flagellant units can do the same thing, but I prefer to use mine as wild-eyed hammers and you might not have the points open in Rares. Also, it's an alternative for people who pass on flagellants for fluff reasons.

What do you think?

I think a move like they will mean that you would face Teclis every single time I faced you.

Also alot of units put out more then enough damage to dissolve your unit in one turn even with the minimum frontage you are presenting.

How about a TFG proofing (in this case) special rule:

Overrun:

Soldiers do not wait patiently in their own ranks while ambushing a march column, they break ranks temporarily for their own advantage.

If a unit has insufficient width to claim rank bonus and yet is deployed in one or more additional ranks the opponent may choose to engage normally or overrun with the entire front rank of any contacting enemy unit may attack, rear ranks do not partipate.

There we go. If you snake and the opponent is in horde he gets ten models in, the kicker is that rear ranks and bonuses thereof including spears do not apply.