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I've notice a difference in the Tyranids play in the game and the horrors they are in the lore. During the battle at Macragge the lore said that they were a horde of mindless bodies, until the Tyrants showed up, then they began to hunt. When I read that I thought of the scene from Jurassic Park 1 where the human is sighting up a raptor in the distance and another raptor comes out from the trees. Instead what I see when playing the game is that I've got a lot of guys and I must mindlessly run across the board as fast as possible. What does everyone else think? Is there away other things from the story that you think don't match up to the game?

A) Do you think the [insert army X] lore is properly represented in the game? [Popular options for X = Space Marines, Eldar, Chaos Marines in particular]

B) Do you think it is the point of the "game" (as opposed to a simulation) to represent fluff in the first place?

C) Why do you run across the board mindlessly with your Nids? Rarely ever see a Nid player do that to be honest.

I think the fluff is off a bit in that they sound terrifying, but are considered to be one of the weaker races. Especially once you get over 1850 or so. I think they have some really cool rules and by far the best models (personal opinion) but I wish they played I'm the game more like they read in the fluff. It'd be cool if you got x amount of spore mines to put down every game, before deployment, for free. I don't think it'd be a game changer, just interesting and more in line with the fluff.

I do like the Ymggrl genestealers though, and I think they have potential to play like what you're suggesting from jurassic park. The enemy is focused on the termagants running straight at them, and then BAM, genestealers in the building to their left.

Zweischneid wrote:A) Do you think the [insert army X] lore is properly represented in the game? [Popular options for X = Space Marines, Eldar, Chaos Marines in particular]

B) Do you think it is the point of the "game" (as opposed to a simulation) to represent fluff in the first place?

C) Why do you run across the board mindlessly with your Nids? Rarely ever see a Nid player do that to be honest.

A) What?

B) Yes, I believe the fluff should have more in common with the gameplay, I think the fluff and rules should go hand and hand, instead of some bs you don't have to read and has nothing to do with the game.

C) Well unless a unit has outflank or deep strike it does have to draw a straight line to a target and run as fast as it can ducking from cover to cover just to get into range to do anything.

Considering they almost never win in the fluff, yes, their lore is very well represented in the game.

Brother SRM wrote:Considering they almost never win in the fluff, yes, their lore is very well represented in the game.

Also this: Simple test really.

Play 1) Maugan Ra against 2) your vision of a splinter-hive-fleet-sized-nid-army.

If Tyranids win, they are to powerful on the table compared to the fluff.

Brother SRM wrote:Considering they almost never win in the fluff, yes, their lore is very well represented in the game.

Win

darkcloud92 wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Considering they almost never win in the fluff, yes, their lore is very well represented in the game.

Win

Ouch! thanks for the slap in the face.

Don't they generally take over multiple worlds before finally getting defeated? I mean, I'm pretty sure the necron codex even says the blood angels and necrons had to join forces to defeat the tyranids. Sounds pretty strong to me.

That being said, that was a pretty decent burn.

Don't forget that the nids encountered so far are only the fumbling fingers of the main bulk of the hive fleets.

Also fluff wise they really have to lose or the galaxy gets consumed, if they started seriously eating into the Empire then it would be curtains pretty quickly. If they had won the battle of Macragge they would have eaten all remnants of the Ultramarines and pow, end of biggest seller.

I quite like the fluff as it implies that fairly soon they will come on in unstoppable numbers. That seems to be their way of fighting, not being indivually good (although some are) but by being numerous. Kind of like the Chinese in the Korean War, charge forwards. Casualties are irrelevant as they can be reabsorbed following victory.

Isengard wrote:Don't forget that the nids encountered so far are only the fumbling fingers of the main bulk of the hive fleets.

Also fluff wise they really have to lose or the galaxy gets consumed, if they started seriously eating into the Empire then it would be curtains pretty quickly. If they had won the battle of Macragge they would have eaten all remnants of the Ultramarines and pow, end of biggest seller.

I quite like the fluff as it implies that fairly soon they will come on in unstoppable numbers. That seems to be their way of fighting, not being indivually good (although some are) but by being numerous. Kind of like the Chinese in the Korean War, charge forwards. Casualties are irrelevant as they can be reabsorbed following victory.

Still. Apples and Oranges. Every 40K faction has their "what-might-be-end-of-days-fluff" in there.

You either compare the fluff on the "contemporary" basis of 40K, where we have more or less (as far as 40K goes) specific accounts of different battles. Here, Nid Fleets regularly loose to even singular Space Marine Chapters (Ultramarines vs. Behemoth; and there are thousand chapters or more vs. about 20 Hive fleets know), minor Races in the Galaxy (Tau vs. Gorgon) or even get double-owned by "comparatively" minor forces like singular Eldar Craftworlds (Iyanden notching up victories against two Hive fleets actually) and even outsmarted/outshot by singular guys (Inquistor Kryptman or Maugan Ra taking things into their own hand). Hell, Vostroyans even starved (!) a Tyranid invasion to death and Valhallans crushed a sizeble part of Jormungandr under "the boots of millions of guardsman".

Or do you compare the "what might be the Tyranid apocalypse", with the currently known (failed) Hive Fleets being but a shadow of what's to come? Than you should also fairly compare them against the "what might be apocalypse" for the other armies, of the Space Marine Primarchs returning for "the Wolf Time" and whatnot, the Emperor reborn as Starchild, the Orks for the first time united under the greatest Waaagh! that ever was and will end all Waaagh!s, the Necrons back to the full height of their ancient glory and power when they challenged the Old Ones, the endless millenia of manipulations of the Eldar finally coming to glorious fruition, Dark Eldar finally tearing down realities' walls to "the dark other" or whatever the Decapitator is doing, etc.. . etc.. etc..

If you compare "what might be-Tyranids" against "contemporary other faction", you obviously get a skewed result, just as if you would compare.. say.. "what might be Orcs" or "Wolf Time Space Wolves" against "contemporary Tyranids". There is little valuble insight there.


Sad as it is, Tyranids as they are now kinda suffer the Abaddon-curse writ large. They're hyped up to be a major, existentialist treat to the galaxy, but in actual performance, they are rather laughable.

The only thing the Tyranid army list really needs to reflect the "endless tide of horrors" is recycling broods of Termagants and Hormagaunts (good ol' Without Number).

I mean, I could go on and on about awesome rules for toxic spores in the air, randomly Tyrannoforming terrain etc, and that would be cool too, but Without Number is without doubt the easiest and most direct way of representing the Tyranid swarm.

I miss it so...

Zweischneid wrote: Sad as it is, Tyranids as they are now kinda suffer the Abaddon-curse writ large. They're hyped up to be a major, existentialist treat to the galaxy, but in actual performance, they are rather laughable.

I don't know about that. The Tyranids have been encroaching on the galaxy for what, 250 years now? The impact they've had is enormous. The entire eastern side of the galaxy has had to react to their arrival. The death toll is ridiculous, and the majority of the Hive Fleets that have arrived have survived their own destruction through spliter fleets. They're here to stay, and they are at least as resilient to extinction as the Orks (and we all know how long the Ork problem has been around).

I'm not sure on what sense that is laughable...

The rules of the game are motivated by three main factors; Fluff, Playability and Balance.

None of the three are more important than the others.
If you attempt to look at the game with only one of the factors in mind, you are doomed to fail.

Every time I read "living engine of destruction" in the Carnifex fluff, I sigh sadly.

"Living engine of destruction" WS 3. Initiative 1 (3! on the charge) that I dare not charge at infanry.