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I have one five man squad of sternguard in my 1000 point army with Kantor so they are scoring, but in the 10 games I played with them they keep dyeing in turn 1

I usually run them inside a rhino or a razorback with kantor and drive them behind buildings or pop smoke, but they still end up as bloody stains on the ground. so far they only killed one guy in a game ( although to be fair it was a chaos lord)

I run them with power weapons and combi-meltas so they are a bit expensive, but they are my favorite guys I put a long time into making them look good so I' bummed almost every match when my guys get just wiped off the table, so I need help

Should I get more guys? I was planning on taking the 5 extra guys in the space marine battleforce and making them sternies so I have a larger force of them, but would that help?

I wont have enough money to buy a drop pod too so some tactical advice would be really helpful.

Your problem is that you are only useing 5 men. Bump it up to 10 men, that should help you.

Bringing it up to 10 is a good start.
For extra protection you can throw in a Librarian and get the 5++ save. Put them all in a LR? Would be pretty tight in a 1000pts game... Bottom line is that the sterns will attract a lot of firepower and you want them to take out their target quickly, you could use the Libby to teleport them where needed on the board and take out the high value target before the enemy's retaliation. Try to go for isolated units like MCs or vehicles (with combi-meltas).
Even with Kantor on the board, don't count on your sterns to hold an objective as they probably won't make it to the end, have some backup troops. Use the sterns to put pressure on a forward objective while your troops secure the ones on your side. In a 2000pts setup I've had some success with them in a pod with Lysander and Pedro with a squad of assault Termies in a LR. On a 1000pts scale I would keep them pretty stock as they are expensive and keep them away from assault units as it is not their forte.

Hope this helps.

Ok I do not like solutions where it is spend more points on the probem.
Maybe 6 or 7 is a good number, any more and you are spending vast number of points.

The issue is probably a matter of support. If you have one rhino going forward it will be popped. If you have 3, say, all of which slightly scary then at least one should get to where you need them.

What does your list look like?

MFletch wrote:Ok I do not like solutions where it is spend more points on the probem.
Maybe 6 or 7 is a good number, any more and you are spending vast number of points.

Except then you aren't able to combat squad the unit, only increasing the survivability by a minimal amount, but foregoing the massive increase in flexibility and utility that 2x 5 man squads would bring, or the durability of a 10 man squad. Personally I would drop the power weapons to offset some of the additional cost, Sternguard are at their best when shooting IMHO

The issue is probably a matter of support. If you have one rhino going forward it will be popped. If you have 3, say, all of which slightly scary then at least one should get to where you need them.

What does your list look like?

TBH, there are going to be very few armies that couldn't kill 5 marines in one turn if that was judged a priority, well supported or not.

Why are people saying "power weapons"? They can at most take a single power weapon...

Anyway, taking 10 Sternguards in a single squad is rarely worth it. Especially not in a 1k list since you wont be using all your elite slots anyway.

As MFletch said, its usualy best to give your whole army list so that one can see where the problem arises. That said, Starnguard are just as durable as normal tacticals so you cant just drive them forward recklessly.

tedurur wrote:Why are people saying "power weapons"? They can at most take a single power weapon...

Tiger9gamer wrote:
I run them with power weapons and combi-meltas so they are a bit expensive, but they are my favorite guys I put a long time into making them look good so I' bummed almost every match when my guys get just wiped off the table, so I need help

Didn't check the legality of the unit, just went from this!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/431007.page#3934637 to all those who asked, this is my list for my wasteland rangers.

I am planning on getting the battleforce, and using the 5 extra guys to make sternguard, bumping it up to 10 guys and combat squad them, So I was wondering if I should give one guy a melta gun and run him with my Combi-weapons to help kill tanks and leave one back with a heavy weapon (Im thinking las cannon? but thats kinda expensive) so I need help with this too. thanks!

The first problem with that list, as someone in the other thread points out is that your whole list is illegal. You only have 1 troop choice. Also, Pedro makes the sternguard scoring for objective games, but they are still elite choices. I would suggest getting more tactical marines or even scouts before you even start worrying about your sternguard. Standard convention holds that you should have 1 troop choice per 500pts in your list.

Cozzy215 wrote:The first problem with that list, as someone in the other thread points out is that your whole list is illegal. You only have 1 troop choice. Also, Pedro makes the sternguard scoring for objective games, but they are still elite choices. I would suggest getting more tactical marines or even scouts before you even start worrying about your sternguard. Standard convention holds that you should have 1 troop choice per 500pts in your list.

okay, im getting the battle force soon to fix that so ignore the troop issue please ( thanks for the info btw) and please focus this thread on the sternguard? I would really like help for this.

If you want to use 5 sternguard I think the better approach is to give them two heavy weapons, sit them in cover in your deployment zone, and use them for fire support. Five guys with 2 lascannons are 155, and with Pedro in the list they can hold an objective. If a non-vehicle enemy unit comes close they can still use their special bolter ammo against it, and be a little bit better at fighting off a weakened enemy unit with their base 2 attacks per model.

I've faced two SM armies using Pedro in the two GTs I've attended so far this year. One used two squads of 5 with double lascannons for his home-side Scoring. The other used two squads of 8 in Rhinos, with power fist and 2-3 combi-meltas per squad. These guys acted like suped-up tactical marines. Combi-meltas gave them some anti-vehicle utility. 2A+1 for Pedro, including for the guy with the Fist, made them a decent medium-strength assault unit. In both lists the use of SG + Pedro meant the army had 5-6 scoring units instead of just a few.

Mannahnin wrote:If you want to use 5 sternguard I think the better approach is to give them two heavy weapons, sit them in cover in your deployment zone, and use them for fire support. Five guys with 2 lascannons are 155, and with Pedro in the list they can hold an objective. If a non-vehicle enemy unit comes close they can still use their special bolter ammo against it, and be a little bit better at fighting off a weakened enemy unit with their base 2 attacks per model.

I've faced two SM armies using Pedro in the two GTs I've attended so far this year. One used two squads of 5 with double lascannons for his home-side Scoring. The other used two squads of 8 in Rhinos, with power fist and 2-3 combi-meltas per squad. These guys acted like suped-up tactical marines. Combi-meltas gave them some anti-vehicle utility. 2A+1 for Pedro, including for the guy with the Fist, made them a decent medium-strength assault unit. In both lists the use of SG + Pedro meant the army had 5-6 scoring units instead of just a few.

What this guy said.

This is what I'm doing for a 2500 point Blood Angels army I'm building towards. Back in 3rd ed, las/plas 5 man Tac squads were all the rage. Sternguard with combi-weapons are the closest thing to that old unit...especially with Pedro making them scoring.

And Sternguard are the second cheapest way of fielding 2 lascannons.

Mannahnin wrote:If you want to use 5 sternguard I think the better approach is to give them two heavy weapons, sit them in cover in your deployment zone, and use them for fire support. Five guys with 2 lascannons are 155, and with Pedro in the list they can hold an objective. If a non-vehicle enemy unit comes close they can still use their special bolter ammo against it, and be a little bit better at fighting off a weakened enemy unit with their base 2 attacks per model.

I've faced two SM armies using Pedro in the two GTs I've attended so far this year. One used two squads of 5 with double lascannons for his home-side Scoring. The other used two squads of 8 in Rhinos, with power fist and 2-3 combi-meltas per squad. These guys acted like suped-up tactical marines. Combi-meltas gave them some anti-vehicle utility. 2A+1 for Pedro, including for the guy with the Fist, made them a decent medium-strength assault unit. In both lists the use of SG + Pedro meant the army had 5-6 scoring units instead of just a few.

Hmmmm, I can see your point with this. I am really torn between using a 10 man squad with x2 combi-meltas, power weapon and meltagun for the forward moving-objective getting combat squad and the rest will stay back with lascannons/kraken ammo and hold my objective 270p all together
-or-
Take two 5 man squads, give captain a power fist, have 3 combi-meltas/plasma and 1 meltagun for 170p and take two lascannons for 155p, but It would be 325p for both.

which one should i take?

This is just my opinion but I reeeeaaallllly don't like seeing my sternguard in cc. As such I do not spend points on pw or pf. I prefer sitting them in an area (Either a flank or near an objective) to deny enemy progress. Never underestimate the fear that sternguard can cause with their rapidfire special ammo. With that said I do not like taking special weapons for the squad.. at most I will buy a few combi-bolters and that is about it.

If I am feeling particularly nasty I will attach my librarian who has gates of infinity and just have them gate up to an enemy squad and rapidfire the hell out of it.

Honestly the best use is two five man squads with 2 las canons at 155 a piece for home scoring and fire support.

Melta SG almost never earn their points back in the current meta. Its just not cost efficient to wast 300+ points to pop a rhino or two before they get wiped.

Cozzy215 wrote:This is just my opinion but I reeeeaaallllly don't like seeing my sternguard in cc. As such I do not spend points on pw or pf. I prefer sitting them in an area (Either a flank or near an objective) to deny enemy progress. Never underestimate the fear that sternguard can cause with their rapidfire special ammo. With that said I do not like taking special weapons for the squad.. at most I will buy a few combi-bolters and that is about it.

If I am feeling particularly nasty I will attach my librarian who has gates of infinity and just have them gate up to an enemy squad and rapidfire the hell out of it.

What he said..

Now I play with Vulkan, not Kantor....but I like to give 2 CM and 2 CFs. The whole point of Sternguard is shooting versatility - and you lose that with special weapons. Put lascannons in your tactical squads or on vehicles instead.

I know you didn't want to hear drop pods....but I had a buddy who wanted to try them out and we used coke cans so he could simulate the effect. If you have friends that are okay with proxying, it's a good way to see if they are worth the investment. For me, it's the ideal way to run sternguard. I put them right where I need them in Turn 1. They can also combat squad out of the drop pod if you want to separate them. I think that's the only transport that allows this. If they are in a tank, you are losing shooting effectiveness.

Maybe its because your running them with kantor. 5 sternguard and Kantor in a RB. Your putting all your eggs in one basket, and letting your opponent burn the basket.

At 1000 points, you've most likely got 2 10 man tactical squads with rhinos. So, put 5 Sternguard in a Rhino, combat squad a tactical squad, leave half on the objective in home deployment and put the other half with Kantor in the RB. That way, your enemy thinks 'Do i shoot their leader OR shoot their elite guys?'. Before, they were like 'YAY! Just gotta blow up that razorback, and then they are wasted!'. Also, with your Sternguard in a Rhino, they can shoot out, allowing them to kill units as they move up.

With the exception of a Vulkan list, I think sternguard are better in a firesupport role. You have 30" range bolters, or no-cover shots or AP3 shots. Moving them up puts them in range of the opponent nasties and almost guarantees their death. (Hmmm to I shoot the 10-man tac with 1 melta gun or the 5-man sternguard with 5 combi-meltas...)

I like the view of cheap HW that compliment what the bolters do. 2 plasma cannons or 2 missile launchers are pretty good. 2 lascannons or 2 multi-meltas not so much so.