Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am still in my experimental phase with the new necrons and fully expect to lose at least one of these games. I have been on a roll with my wraithwing necron builds, but my non-wraithwing footcrons have been more mediocre, netting me 2 draws in my last 2 games.

Anyways, I'm trying out a lot of new stuff with this army. They include:

- Orikan
- Tremor-teks, or Crypteks with tremorstaves
- Writhing Worldscape C'tan
- Triarch Stalker
- Monolith

This time, I am trying out a necron build dubbed the "Tremorcrons". You can find a whole discussion about it here. Basically, the strategy involves limiting your opponent's mobility by forcing him to move through difficult and dangerous terrain. Orikan makes all terrain difficult for the opponent on Turn 1 and tremor-teks have a shooting attack which also makes an enemy unit move as if it was in difficult terrain. The C'tan then makes all difficult terrain dangerous for the opponent.

I know my list is far from optimal for even a tremorcron build, but I wanted to try out some units that I've never used before. I also wanted to keep the proxying to nil, but alas, I forgot my triarch stalker and had to proxy my dreadnought in its place. Well, with this rag-tag group of necrons, I fully expect to lose probably 1 of my games. What do you think?


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Game #1 - 2000 Tremorcrons vs Space Marine Imperial Fists


2K Necrons (My list)

Orikan
Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Res Orb, Phase Shifter, Semipatenal Weave, Warscythe
Catacomb Command Barge

4x Cryptek - 2x Eldritch Lances w/1x Solar Pulse (Lance-teks), 2x Tremorstaves (Tremor-teks)

C'tan - Lord of Flame, Writhing Worldscape
Triarch Stalker (proxied using dreadnought)

5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors

10x Canoptek Scarabs
5x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Caster
5x Tomb Blades - 5x Particle Beamers, 5x Shadowloom

Monolith


2K Space Marines

My opponent brought a very shooty and very pretty Imperial Fists army.


Librarian - Epistolary, Null Zone, The Avenger

Ironclad Dreadnought - 2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Drop Pod
Rifleman Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons
Rifleman Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons

10x Tactical Marines - 1x Combi-melta, Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Las/Plas Razorback (Lascannon + TL-Plasma)
10x Tactical Marines - 1x Combi-melta, Meltagun, Lascannon, Las/Plas Razorback (Lascannon + TL-Plasma)
5x Tactical Marines - Lazorback (TL-Lascannons)

2x Land Speeder Typhoon
2x Land Speeder Typhoon
2x Attack Bike - Multi-meltas

Predator Destructor - TL-Autocannon, 2x Heavy Bolters
Predator Destructor - TL-Autocannon, 2x Heavy Bolters
Predator Destructor - TL-Autocannon, 2x Heavy Bolters


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Annihilation

Deployment: Spearhead

Initiative: Imperial Fists


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Game #2 - 1750 Tremorcrons vs Mechdar

In this game, my opponent brought 1750 of eldar with him. Due to time concerns, I decided to go down to 1750 instead of having him go up to 2K.


1750 Necrons (My list)

Necron Overlord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Res Orb, Phase Shifter, Semipatenal Weave, Warscythe
Catacomb Command Barge

4x Cryptek - 2x Eldritch Lances w/1x Solar Pulse (Lance-teks), 2x Tremorstaves (Tremor-teks)

C'tan - Lord of Flame, Writhing Worldscape

5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors

10x Canoptek Scarabs
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils, 1x Particle Caster
5x Tomb Blades - 5x Particle Beamers, 5x Shadowloom

Monolith


BTW, I believe I am short 20pts but oh well, didn't think it would really matter.


1750 Eldar

This is an approximation of his list as I don't have the actual list.


Eldrad
Farseer - Jetbike, Fortune, not sure what else
4x Warlocks - Jetbike, 2x Embolden, 2x Enhance

5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/Shuricannons, Spirit Stones and Star Engines

5x Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent w/Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones
5x Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent w/Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones
5x Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent w/Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones

3x War Walkers - 2x Scatter Lasers
3x War Walkers - 2x Scatter Lasers
2x War Walkers - 2x Shuricannons


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Capture and Control

Deployment: Spearhead

Initiative: Eldar


-------------------------------------------------------------------


For both games, we played on the same map.




Coming up next, Pre-game Analysis.....

PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Necrons:
I'm going to do my Pre-game a little differently this time. I'm going to rate my army via the 3 phases on a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 being the best.

Movement - 2.5/5.
I feel that my movement is about average. My only mobility is in 4 units - CCB Overlord, scarabs, wraiths and tomb blades. The rest of my army is slow. Against my space marines opponent, it is ok considering his army isn't so fast either. But against mechdar, I don't have a chance in hello to compete with them. At least my mobile units have some resiliency.

Advantage - Eldar.

Shooting - 1/5.
Wow. I didn't realize how weak my shooting really was. In most of my other armies (besides my MTO crons), my shooting is usually a 4 or 5, but in this list....yeesh! My only ranged AT are 2 lances. Then at midrange, I've got the monolith's particle whip and my triarch stalkers heat ray. My main anti-infantry shooting is my tomb blades, but somehow, my opponents always maximize firepower to take them out. Other than that, I don't know what I was thinking when I made this list. Oh well, here's hoping that I can immobilize a couple of vehicles with my tremorstaves, who BTW only have a 24" range.

There's no way in heck I can compete against my 2 opponents in shooting. I'd rank my space marine opponent's shooting as 4/5 and mechdar as 3.5/5.

Advantage - Space Marines and Eldar.

Assault - 3/5.
I feel that this is my only advantage over my opponents. Wraiths, scarabs, Overlord and C'tan gives my army a close-combat edge over my MSU opponents. Other than the C'tan, all of them have the ability to get into combat fairly fast. I will not count Orikan as a cc-threat because I feel that his metamorphosis is just too unreliable. Hopefully, my ability to make them move in difficult terrain will help me reach them faster.

Now if I can only make it to his lines intact....

Advantage - Tremorcrons.

Against space marines in Annihilation, I think I do have a chance at victory due to his high amount of KP's. Where I think I will really have trouble is with Eldar. Doom and guide combined with 60 S6 shots will really put the hurt on my infantry. And then I'm playing mechdar in an objecitves game....



Space Marines:
We are playing KP's here and my opponent has a really shooty army. He doesn't really need to move all that much so I don't think my tremorcrons will affect them too much. The key to a space marine victory here is to focus-fire and try to wipe out 1 unit at a time. Target priority is of utmost importance. Spreading out may be a good idea here against my army, as it reduces my chance to multi-assault. Then play the keep-away game while torrenting my units. I'm just glad that this isn't a shooty Blood Angels army.

What could help me in this matchup is my opponent's inexperience with the new necrons. I believe this is the first time he has faced them, but I have educated him on what each and every one of my unit can do. I always do against my opponents if they are not familiar with my army.


Eldar:
This is the matchup which will give me the most problems. His army is very fast and highly specialized to take on infantry-based armies such as mine. While his AT is not as strong, against my army, it doesn't really matter. Doom and Guide, which I cannot stop, followed by 60 S6 shots from his 8 walkers, will wipe out any one of my units if he concentrates on them. I don't have anything that can really hurt his walkers from a distance so will have to rely on taking them out from up close.

His seer council will also be a pain. They can be used as a counter-assault unit to tarpit any of my assault units, or they can go and hunt down my troops. I really don't have the volume-of-fire to take them out. My answer to them will be to tarpit them, but that would mean that my wraiths and/or scarabs will be tarpitted as well. This makes it almost impossible for me to deal with his skimmers.

Lastly, how the heck am I going to stop him from contesting my objective? His units are just too fast. His fire dragon serpent can actually move 36" per turn. Focus-fire on his part will make it hard for my mobile units to get to his objective. Honestly, this is a dilemma that I really don't have an answer to. In this matchup, I am the underdog and will have to use every ounce of cunning and trick in my repertoire to avoid my first necron loss.

BTW, this will also be my mechdar opponent's first battle with the new necrons as well.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

calypso2ts wrote:Not a lot of cover on that board. I think you are going to take a loss in both games on this one. The SM list is REALLY shooty, and I am not sure you have the horsepower to deal with the dreads. The Eldar list is also brutal with the war walkers, I assume fortune/guide/ on the farseer if he is with a seer council. Guide the walkers and then go from there.

Not just that, but there is not a lot of area terrain on that board as well. There are 6 "ruins" and the rough areas up the hills and down the trench we played as difficult, but the flat surfaces of the hill and trench itself are just normal terrain. I don't think I can rely on my opponents immobilizing themselves too much on this map.

Yeah, that eldar list will be brutal on my army. I think my only advantage is my opponent's unfamiliarity with the new necrons as this will be his first battle against them.

Just Dave wrote:I reckons the NeRcrons will win one, lose the other. Not sure on the tremor-list (though I'm a big fan of the concept) but it will be interesting to see.
Love the table btw.

Yeah, I also like the concept of the tremorcrons, but I don't think they will actually do well in these 2 battles. Firstly, the map is absent of a lot of area terrain. Secondly, Orikan's first turn difficult terrain can be avoided by not moving or by reserving your entire army (which is exactly what my space marine opponent does). Thirdly, my SM opponent doesn't really need to move all that much and all of his guns out-range my 2 tremorstaves. Finally, in my battle against mechdar, I didn't bring Orikan and eldar skimmers can just fly over difficult terrain.

I'm afraid the tactics of the tremorcrons won't be well represented in these games.

Marthike wrote:Never realised just how much fire power those warwalkers can put out!

I think your gonna have trouble with both, not so much on the space marines, if your dice is not rubbish then its gonna be a ok game for you, you have to tools to shut down his shooting and your units out assauts him, pick on his weaker units then you will win by KP

For eldar, I think..... Hope you can take out those walkers with your overlord, he will tie them up for long enough for your other guys to get in.

War walkers are nasty. Eldrad could guide 2 of them (the 2 scatter laser squads). Then if he dooms my 5 wraiths and all 3 squads of war walkers fire at them, this is the result:

Scatter lasers: 48 shots x 3/4 hit with re-rolls x 35/36 wounds x 1/3 penetrate armor = 12 wounds.

Heck, he doesn't even need to fire his shuri-walkers at them. Just the 2 unit of scatter-walkers is enough to wipe out my wraiths!

My only hope is to assault them with my overlord. He'll have problems taking down my command barge.

junk wrote:Totally fair pre-game analysis:
You seem to consistently favor warriors over immortals, which I think, when using a mechanic like quake, which allows you, to some degree, to dictate your opponent's movement, you might be better off with the more resilient and better armed immortals.

Yeah, it's just a preference of mine. I tend to put the killing power of my lists in my non-troop slots (i.e. FA, HQ and Heavies). Though immortals are much better than warriors, necron troops are really lackluster compared to the other FOC slots. Why focus on better troops when I'm relying on the non-troops to achieve my goals? At least that's my list philosophy.

junk wrote:
Also, despite the appearance of orikan in your list, I don't know if you're really committing to the tremorcrons with only 2 staves.

The choice to give the C'tan Lord of fire seems like you plan on having him and the monolith babysit each other. It is a nice inexpensive choice, but besides it being a novelty power, I don't really think it's the optimal choice.

Triarch stalkers have consistently dissapointed me, but maybe you'll have better luck with it. I find the best use for them is armed with gauss, helping squads of destroyers or tesla immortals focus fire.

As you know, we've been struggling to settle on an optimal tremorcron build, hopefully this batrep will provide some good information for us. As always, I look forward to your reports.

I'm really conflicted between lance-teks and tremor-teks. I feel that I need more ranged AT. Thus, I settled on a ratio of 2-2 for my first trial run. Perhaps next time I will use 3 tremorstaves and 1 lance (with Solar Pulse). You just gotta have the solar pulse.

Regarding the c'tan, you're probably right. I just wanted to keep him cheap. So it was either entropic touch or lord of flame, the 2 cheapest powers. And with regards to the c'tan and monolith, they didn't really do much as they were much too slow to really go anywhere (and my opponents ignored them for the most part). Then again, this was my very first time using the mono. I should've considered deepstriking it instead of just using it to block LOS to my army.

Triarch stalker doesn't really belong in this list at all, but I just wanted to get a feel for it. He turned out not to do much either as my opponent largely ignored him (and my opponent made his cover saves against it).

I'm finding it hard to get an optimal tremorcron build as well. IMO there is no such thing as optimal build for them, not when you're basing your strategy on a build that is just too random and inconsistent.

DevianID wrote:I predict the necrons lose both. I predict that your assault elements get blasted to bits early on, while your meager shooting is largely shrugged off.

I also predict the CCB getting melta'd in both games after 1 fly over, but your Overlord will be running around the rest of the midgame chasing down fleeing targets.

I like your confidence in my army. Well, if anything, in these battles I will have to rely more on my strategy than on my lists. I also hope my opponents' inexperience will cause them to kill the wrong units.

I do want to say that tremor-teks have a 36 inch range, not 24. It wont help you this game, but going forward its something to keep in mind.

Doh!

One of the problems against my 2 opponents was that I found that my tremor-teks were constantly out of range when in actuality, they were probably in range.

And you know what other booboo I made? I've been playing my tomb blades for their first 3 games (aganst Ravenguards, mech BA and now Imperial Fists) without Reanimation Protocols!!! It wasn't until my game against mechdar did I realize they had RP.

I know you were trying stuff out, so comments on the synergy, or my percieved lack of, wont help. But I do believe that a list in this style is possible by just trading out the surfboard for a chronocryptek+anrakyr, and orikan in a block of tesla immortals in place of your tomb blades. That unit buffed by a triarch stalker is murderous.

I don't know about Anrakr. The FAQ nerfed him (at least that's how I would play it) so I've swapped him out for a normal surflord (Overlord on CCB). If anything, maybe I may go with 2 surflords and double royal courts to get in more shooting and more tremorstaves (4+4 is my ideal).

Triarch stalker definitely would fit better in an army with more immortals and better shooting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anvildude wrote:I think you're forgetting that Skimmers, if they move Flat Out and get immobilized on their turn (which you're in better position to do, since you can effectively make them 'land' in Dangerous Terrain every turn) they wreck and kill everyone inside. You're limiting his mobility every time you get a successful hit on him with your Tremorstaves.

Though I do agree with junk- if you're going Tremor-crons, take a lot more Tremor.

No, I didn't forget. I know about it. My problem was thinking that my tremorstaves were 24" rather than 36". So mostly, my tremor-teks were out of 24" range.

Then the few times I hit his serpents, he never failed a dangerous terrain test.

Come to think of it, I did forget to fire it a couple of times when his serpent was in range. Doh!!!

DevianID wrote:Jy2, its not that I dont have faith in your ability, but without knowing you or your opponents, I only have lists to go on. Consider if you were playing the Eldar and SM versus the Necrons. Would you, piloting the SM and Eldar, predict that you would beat the crons?

Just playing with you, bro. I agree with your analysis. If I was playing the SM or the eldar list, I would probably kill my necrons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

whitespirit wrote:I was there for the mechdar match so wont comment on that one. I think Necrons will beat the space marines. Scarabs are abig surprise for anyone with lil to no experience with them used in Anti Vehicle and with solar pulse should be able to get in close

Hey Andrew, sup!

These necrons are nothing like the necrons you faced. The ones you faced - my wraithwing - are much more optimized and much, much meaner.

Though both my opponent have never faced necrons before, both knew exactly how dangerous my scarabs were.

Game #1 - 2000 Tremorcrons vs Space Marine Imperial Fists


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Annihilation

Deployment: Spearhead

Initiative: Imperial Fists


--------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Map of the terrain. Here we played the the hilltops and trench bottom as clear terrain. However, the rough area going up the hills or down the trench we played as difficult terrain. The 6 bunkers are area terrain.

My Space Marine opponent decides to reserve his entire army. However, he does this because there is some confusion about Orikan's power. He asked if Orikan's difficult terrain power affects all units on Turn 1. I thought he was referring to all of his units - infantry, tanks, bikes, jump infantry, etc. - and told him yes. He thought it affected my army as well. Later after I deploy and move on my Turn 1, he finds out that it doesn't affect my army. I offer to let him re-deploy his army and basically redo our deployments. He politely declines and we continue.


My deployment.


Opponent's perspective of my deployment. I leave nothing in reserves.


A closer look at my new tomb blades and the triarch stalker that I forgot to bring. The 2 crypteks here are my tremor-teks.

Throughout the 2 games, I thought that the range of my tremorstaves were 24". They are actually 36" range.

I fail to seize the initiative.


BTW, I did not look at his list close enough. Otherwise, I would have seen that he had an ironclad on a drop pod and I would have deployed accordingly....


--------------------------------------------------------------


Space Marines 1

Drop pod comes in....literally as I take this picture. Lol.


Ironclad comes out and fires its melta and both hunter-killers at my monolith. I am lucky that he fails to penetrate it.


Necrons 1

My command barge Overlord (I shall call him my surflord) flies over his ironclad.

We get into a rules debate here. He says I need to move at least 18" to get the flat-out cover save. I don't see it anywhere in the BRB that tells me I have to do so. Anyways, I give it to him and move 18", though this will most likely put my command barge in mult-melta double-range if his attack bikes come in.

My sweep attack blows up his ironclad.

Necrons: 1, SM: 0


Necron movement.


Wraiths jump over the command barge to screen it. C'tan goes after the drop pod.


My units then run.


C'tan and scarabs assault his drop pod....


....and easily blow it up. I lose 1 scarab base in the explosion.

Necrons: 2, SM: 0


Space Marines 2

1 unit of land speeder typhoons, 2 las/plas combat squads and his MM attack bikes come in from reserves.


1 predator comes in from the opposite corner. He is spreading out his forces.


Attack bikes fail to penetrate my flat-out cover with their multi-meltas, but a las/plas razorback manages to wreck it.

Necrons: 2, SM: 1

That is all the damage his shooting is able to muster as he focuses almost entirely on my surflord.


Necrons 2

Tomb blades takes cover behind terrain. Their shooting would later fail to damage any tanks.


Necrons advance.


Wraiths go after his transport and my overlord after the attack bikes.

My limited shooting does not do anything so we go onto assault.


Overlord and scarabs assault his attack bikes.


He puts 2 wounds on scarabs and I kill off 1 biker....oh wait, I forgot about mindshackles. We are still in this combat so we do the mindshackle thing. His biker fails and all of a sudden, my scarabs heal themselves and suffer no wounds. He passes morale.


Wraiths assault his razorback.


I blow it up and 3 guys (4 guys?) die in the explosion. My wraith also takes 1W from the explosion. His lone tactical marine fails morale and is pinned.

Necrons: 3, SM: 1


Space Marines 3

Most of his army comes in and away from my wraiths/scarabs. Typhoons move flat-out.


Left typhoons move 12".


He shoots down 2 tomb blades. I forget that they had Reanimation Protocols for the entire game.


Typhoons here shoot down 4 warriors out in the open. 1 gets back up.


In assault, I wipe out his attack bikes.

Necrons: 4, SM: 1


Necrons 3

My wraiths jump past his pinned marine to go after his speeders.


Tomb blades jump back to get a shot on his other speeders.


The rest of my crons slowly creep forwards.


Scarabs, Overlord, C'tan and triarch starker head towards his tanks. Scarabs would fail to make the charge due to difficult terrain.


Tremorstave hits his razorback, but my triarch stalker's heat ray fails to even glance it. My non-shooty units run.


Tomb blades blow up 1 typhoon.


Wraiths then assault his speeders.


I blow up 1 of the speeders and shake the other one.

Necrons: 4, SM: 1


Space Marines 4

Razorback, combat squads and librarian come in to deal with my wraiths. Typhoon moves 12" away.


On his right flank, his tanks shuffle around. His "tremored" razorback passes its dangerous test.


Librarian casts both Null Zone and the Avenger. All his marines, his lazorback and his typhoon fires at my wraiths. One of his combat squads fire only their pistols because they are planning to charge. When the dust settles and the smoke is clear, I've only lost 2 wraiths and suffer 1W on another. Not too bad for me.


Autocannon preds and his typhoon wipe out my tomb blades.

Necrons: 4, SM: 2


Finally, his combat squad assaults my wraiths....


He causes 1W, killing one of my wounded wraiths. In return, I kill 2 marines and break the squad, sending them fleeing. I then consolidate to make sure they keep running next turn.


Necrons 4

Wraiths now go after his lone tact squad.


Monolith moves on top of the ruins.


Necrons getting ever closer.


Lance-tek fires at his typhoon and immobilize as well as shake it.

My tremor-tek hits one of his predators.

My monolith's particle whip scatters off the table.


Wraiths then go on to multi-assault 2 units - 1 combat squad and the lone marine.


I kill the lone marine to get a KP and also another 1 marine in the combat squad. He kills my wounded wraith. Marines then pass morale.

Necrons: 5, SM: 2


Space Marines 5
Things are not looking good for the Imperial Fists.


Tact combat squad hops into his lazorback because they fear my monolith. His librarian, however, breaks off from the squad and will be joining the battle against my lone wraith.


The first and only immobilization of the game as a result of my tremorstaves goes to his predator.


The rest of his tanks all move.

In shooting he targets my C'tan with his autocannons but is wounding on 4's. I think he only wounds 2x and my C'tan makes both of his saves.

His librarian casts Null Zone.


His HQ then joins into the melee.

Unfortunately, I pass my saves against his librarian and the re-rolls as well. I then kill his librarian. His squad fails morale but somehow I catch them. They then pass their No Retreat saves.

Necrons: 6, SM: 2


Necrons 5

Doom is approaching.


Warriors move about.


My Lord attack his immobilized tank and rips off 2 of its guns as well as stun it.


Scarabs assault his lazorback....


....and blow it up. 2 marines die in the explosion and they get pinned.

Necrons: 7, SM: 2


We call it at this point as it wasn't really necessary for me to chase him around to try to get more Kill Points. The victory was already decided.



Aftermath of the game.



Victory to the Necrons!!!

Game #1 completed.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

DevianID wrote:The 18 inches for cover is for bikes turboboosting, not for fast skimmers.

Also, I am surprised that your opponent is just feeding you, by dropping a pod and dread next to scarabs and attack bikes next to a lord. I suppose with 1 melta he thought he could get lucky, but if he wanted to kill a vehicle it would be the ccb. Otherwise, kill wraiths or scarabs. So far he seems to be trying to trade KP with you, but trading is a poor choice.

In hindsight, if you had assaulted the pod with just scarabs, 50 attacks lower the armor by 25 points, immediately wrecking it. So no explosion that causes a base to die.

To be fair to my opponent, his reserving of his entire army was due to the miscommunication regarding Orikan's rule. Otherwise, he told me would've deployed his entire army and just sat there and fired. Now I did offer for him to redo our deployments as I was just beginning to move, but he declined.

I guess he was willing to sacrifice his ironclad+drop pod and bikes to get rid of my monolith and command barge. While this would've put him behind in KP's, tactically the "reward was worth the risk" (at least for taking out my command barge). Also, I believe his inexperience with how deadly my non-shooting AT is probably played a factor here.

Assaulting the pod gives both my c'tan and scarabs extra movement. I was willing to risk it for that slight advantage. It also guarantees a kill just in case 1 unit "under-performs" in assault.

Dok wrote:Hmm, looks like the SM player is playing into your game plan.
If not for that, I think it would've been a bit easier for him.

People who have never played against necrons before will usually under-estimate the mobility of my fast units.

This appeared to be the case for my opponent.

DevianID wrote:Huh. Not what I expected, but then again I would point to a lot of the Fist player's moves as mistakes. The deployment style was spearhead, he could have deployed his entire shooting army in his corner, not moved an inch turn 1, and just blasted away. He had searchlights too. Like you said, he didnt understand necrons, and thought orikan hurt you as well, causing him to reserve all units.

As for you... man if my wraiths acted like your wraiths, I would have a completely different opinion of them. For example, how many saves (with forced rerolls) did you make when he went 'all in' to kill the wraiths with libby nullzone + avenger?

I think unfamiliarity with the codex is what really hurt him this game. He did make some mistakes but ultimately, I felt that he under-estimated the speed and resiliency of my necrons. But this will all change the more he plays against them. Let's just say that I probably "de-virginized" him with how the new necrons play.

BTW, I didn't even use my Solar Pulse.

I must admit that I've been having some success with my wraiths. Keep in mind that wraiths have both 3+ armor and a phase shifter. Thus, Null Zone would only force me to re-roll the AP3/2/1 saves and not the regular bolt weapons. Still, he had 4 meltas (2 combi's), 2 plasmas (from his las/plas razor) and 2 avenger wounds that he forced me to re-roll (as well as his librarian's force weapon) and I rolled well against them.

I think your biggest mistake is not taking advantage of wound allocation on your wraiths. It makes all the difference in the world. Honestly, I think it makes them almost 2x as survivable (or something like that). For example, let's say his shooting puts 2W on me. Normally, you'd lose a wraith but I put the 2 wounds on 2 separate models. Then his next unit fires and puts 1 melta wound on me. I would allocate it on the wounded model so that I would only lose 1 model. Without wound allocation, I would have lost 2 models instead.

Red Corsair wrote:Idk, personally that misunderstanding was too big to ignore. If it were me I would have INSISTED that we start fresh. Rerolling mission, initiative and deployment to be fair to both sides. His misunderstanding of that rule literally set the pace for the whole game. It really tarnishes the result in my mind.

Aside from that you are clearly the better player, it's obvious by his decisions and I think you would have beaten him non the less.... But damn is he the better modeller no offense. Those are some pretty boys in yellow wow! What a treat that must have been!

I think probably the main reason he declined was that he had another game scheduled after this against someone else. But it's a learning experience for the both of us as I'm using a lot of new units and he's facing a new army. I mean, we both made mistakes this game. I didn't realize he had a drop pod melta dread and left my mono unprotected, thought my tremorstaves were 24" when they were actually 36", forgot about RP on my tomb blades, forgot to check for Orikan's metamorphosis until Turn 4 (it didn't really matter though) and forgot to use my Solar Pulse. He just wasn't really familiar with the new necrons and was surprised at my mobility.

He definitely is an awesome painter/modeler. He actually won Best Painted at our recent 2-day GT (Storm the Kastle). That is one of the main reasons for me to make this battle report. I knew that I was going to make mistakes. I was pretty sure he would've made some mistakes as well. I didn't really care if I lost this battle. I just wanted to try out my new "toys" as well as showcase my opponent's models. His army really was a treat to the eyes.

Kellhus wrote:I agree that the Fist Army was gorgeous but when it came down to play, it looks like he has a weak grasp of tactics at best. Even with the misunderstanding of the rule behind Orikan it was like he was hoping that he could just match one of his units against yours and win each individual fight. There was no big picture for him and it shows.

Should have concentrated fire on your wraiths as they were tying up so many of his units (not to mention earning some easy KP), then the tomb blades, then the teks. He didn't even attempt to use his armor's ability to keep moving and attempt to maintain some standoff which was his best advantage.

Actually, he had a plan. His plan was to spread out his army and make me go all over the place. Because if my wraiths commit to one side, I won't be able to go to other flank. Then he used his superior range to try to shoot me down. If you noticed, almost all his ranged AT was on the edge of the board. He knew he had me out-ranged.

He sacrificed his unit (his bikers) to take out my truly nasty fast threat - my command barge - because my Overlord on foot just isn't scary. He ignored my c'tan and slower units for the most part. He focused on my fast threats and took out my tomb blades and command barge. He tried to take out my wraiths and would've been successful if only I wasn't rolling that well. The only thing he couldn't take out were my scarabs, probably because most of his units couldn't see them with all those tall terrain. Overall, he did make some mistakes, but I don't think they were all that bad. It was just that he came in piecemeal, thus giving me time to deal with his units on the board, and he somewhat under-estimated my army IMO.

Exalted Pariah wrote:Man, I really wanted the Tomb Blades to actually DO something...... I agree his army was GORGEOUS

The trade-off for the tomb blades is that once they fire, then they're vulnerable. But I'm finding that they're a bullet magnet (though an expensive one at 200pts) that takes a lot of the heat off of my other units, and with a 2+ cover from turbo-boosting, they can withstand a lot of flak fire.


@-666-

Thanks!

CaptKaruthors wrote:Yeah, I think reserving his army was a bad sign.

It was more of a miscommunication error. Though he opted not to redo it I think because he had another game after this.

The Grog wrote:So was podding to take a suicide run at the Monolith. It's not that scary, it's slow, and it's 24" range. Podding to take out the CCB would have been a better idea, but simply deploying or podding to try to engage the Wraiths was the best use of an Ironclad, imo. It inflicts ID on them and they have to rend to hurt it back.

I think he just wasn't familiar enough with the necron codex to understand the right target priorities. You really don't know how deadly the CCB is until the first time it sweeps over your unit and kills something (like his ironclad).

Assaulting my wraiths with the ironclad would have been a better idea....that is if I let him. He wouldn't have been able to catch my wraiths whereas I probably could've very easily assaulted his dread with my scarabs. But in this case, counter-assault would have probably been a better idea than a suicide attempt.

whigwam wrote:Yeah, what a beautiful Fists army. Every last model looks great. Your Necrons are shaping up nicely too! Love those Tomb Blades. Hats off for putting so much effort into them. Now, I would've liked to see the Blades get more action than a Speeder...but I guess this match-up didn't really favor them.

Also wanted to say thanks for documenting your Necron's "experimental phase" so thoroughly (leaving aside any potential jokes about college). Your batreps have been really helpful to me as well as others, I'm sure. I don't really "believe" in the Tremorcron build, but I'm really happy to see someone giving it an honest try.

Thanks! It's going somewhat slowly, but it's at least it's going. Forgetting about RP I think hurts them a little.

Tremorcron is really a tough build to do well. I think the best necron builds are either highly mobile (like wraithwing or my MTO crons) or very shooty (tl-tesla destructors) or a combination of the 2. Every other necron build is just not as optimal IMO.

Anvildude wrote:I'm actually liking the WraithStalkers a lot. I saw them in the first pic, from far away, and was like "Waitaminute..." then saw them closer and realized what you'd done. Great idea, there. And depending on how much the Wraiths actually end up being, a cheaper alternative.

Thanks! They're cheaper than the current metallic wraiths, but I suspect the new wraiths will probably cost the exact some price as my conversions. They're converted from the Tomb King Necropolis Knights/Sepulchral Stalkers. The only thing is that I didn't want to wait for the new models to come out.

Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for another fun report! I agree that there were too many mistakes on your opponent's side (the biggest being the deployment boo-boo) to really learn a lot from it, but it was still a fun read and darn is his army gorgeous!

If I were building Tremorcrons I think I'd have to make them shooty. I love Scarabs and Wraiths, but IMO you're going to get much more mileage out of slowing the enemy down if you're shooting him to pieces rather than bringing the fight to his doorstep.

Yeah, take this battle more as eye-candy than an truly tactical game and you'll probably enjoy it more.

I agree that shooty necrons are the way to go if you want to do a tremorcron build. It's just that I don't really have the right units to do so. I'd go with annihilation barges and probably night scythes in such a build - units that I don't currently have (well, I guess I could always proxy). This battle was mainly to try out new units that I already have rather than to proxy units that I don't have.

calypso2ts wrote:This definitely looks like a learning experience for your opponent. Even with the 'terrain' from Orikan, I cannot conceive why you would reserve an all shooting army against someone who needs to close on you to deal significant damage. Well played on your part.

So far I am 0 for 1, I am sure you can pull off a loss to the Eldar!

I guess he wanted to see where my assault units went and then come in away from them. He also wanted me to endure 1 turn of dangerous terrain movement because he thought Orikan+C'tan affected my army as well.

You'll find out soon enough regarding the eldar game, which will be coming out a little later today.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

deviant cadaver wrote:I was surprised to see you running the stalker next to the lord of fire C'tan.

This is something I have been unclear about for a while, If you move flat out for the cover save and your CCB get wrecked can the overload get out ?

Thanks for posting these battle reports it is so nice to gain some real game knowledge with out having to do the work lol.

You can if it gets wrecked while going flat-out on your opponent's turn. But if you do it on your own turn (i.e. immobilizing it on terrain while moving flat-out), then you can't and the lord is removed from play with no Ever-living/RP check allowed.

However, and this is some debate with regards to this, but I think you can convert the immobilization into 1W for your Overlord due to Symbiotic Repair. Just go through this rule with your opponent first before the game to avoid in-game arguments.

Game #2 - 1750 Tremorcrons vs Mechdar


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Capture and Control

Deployment: Spearhead

Initiative: Eldar


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Map of the terrain. Here we played the the hilltops and trench bottom as clear terrain. However, the rough area going up the hills or down the trench we played as difficult terrain. The 6 bunkers are area terrain.


My mechdar opponent places his objective here. Obviously, he didn't go to Jy2's School of 40k Objective Placing.


Because over there, this is how we teach you to place objectives.


Eldar deployment. The black wave serpent has the fire dragons and star engines. He leaves the unit of 2 shuri-walkers in reserves to come in from his own board edge. The empty 60mm bases are his Work-in-Progress war walkers. Eldrad is in the red serpent right next to the black one.



My deployment. I deploy my wraiths and tomb blades away form his walkers. As I had thought that my tremor-teks were only 24", I deploy them forwards.


I deploy 1 unit of warriors with my lance-tek on my objective. I leave 1 unit with lance-tek in reserves.


With Eldrad's ability, my opponent re-deploys a couple of units.

I don't bother to seize.


--------------------------------------------------------------


Eldar 1
I use my Solar Pulse to make it Night-fight.


Eldar movement. He fortunes his units and guides his walkers. I believe all his vehicles go flat-out and his jetbikes turboboost. He was concerned about my tomb blade particle beamer blasts so he moves his seer council back and bides their time.


His fire dragon serpent uses its star engines in the Shooting phase to move on top of the hill. 36"....wow....

No shooting (or he fails to shoot in the dark).


Necrons 1

I take advantage of his trepidation and advance aggressively. Tomb blades turbo 24". We will see next turn just how much firepower they can take.


Wraiths move sneakily along the board edge, trying to stay out of range of both Doom and what will soon be Guided war walkers. I have big plans for these guys.


My surflord (Overlord on command barge) moves 24". This guy is my only answer to his war walkers. If he's done, I'm probably done as well.


My tremor-tek fires at this fire serpent and puts it in difficult terrain (made dangerous by my C'tan).


That is all the shooting I have. Necrons run.


Eldar 2
Eldrad casts Guide on the war walkers and I believe Fortune. Farseer fortunes his seer council.


The 2 shuri-cannon walkers (represented by the 2 empty bases) come in from reserves. They're going to get rear shots at my command barge's unprotected backside.

Now I realize why my opponent didn't outflank them.


Scatter-walkers move. They get out into the open so that they can shoot down my scarabs.


Fire serpent passes its dangerous terrain test and goes to screen out his wraiths. All serpents move at cruising speed.


Because his walkers are most likely out of range of my wraiths, 1 unit fires upon my scarabs.


It turns out that only 4 bases out of 10 are obscured from his view. Thus, no cover and he wipes them out. Ouch!


His other unit of walkers fire 24 twin-linked S6 shots at my tomb blades. Only 1 of them drops. Then I finally remember about Reanimation Protocols, make it and he gets back up.


Focused fire from jetbikes and several serpents put 2W on my wraiths.


Finally, his shuri-walkers fire at the rear of my command barge and immobilize it. But because it is open-topped, it becomes a wreck.


Necrons 2

Necron movement. I'm sooo slooooowwwwww. Omigosh, I miss the mobility of my MTO necrons.


The only thing the wraiths will be able to hit is his serpent.


Overlord foots it over towards his walker. Tomb blades turbo-boost again. At least I'm going to be able to tie up 1 of his units of walkers.


Monolith is finally in range to use its particle whip. I only shake one of the scatter-walkers.

One of my tremor-teks fires and hits his fire serpent again.


Time for some payback!


I roll well and explode all 3 walkers!!!


Wraiths assault his fire serpent but only shakes it.


Eldar 3
Eldrad casts his obligatory powers, including Doom on both my Overlord and my wraiths. And of course, farseer fortunes his own unit.


Walkers move away from my Overlord. 1 serpent climbs on top of the hill (and objective).


He is going for the kill. Fire serpent makes its DT test and move back on top of the hill. Fire dragons disembark. Seer council gets ready to assault my wraiths.


After shooting with his seer council, fire dragons, and serpents, he only manages to kill 1 wraith.


I believe 1 serpent shoots at and puts 1W on my C'tan.

Scatter-walkers (1 was shaken) shoot at my Overlord and fails to penetrate his armor .

Shuri-walkers fire at my tomb blades and drop 1. I then make my RP roll and he gets back up again.


Then it's off to assault.


Damn fortune and damn eldar resiliency! He passes every single fortuned save and reduces my wraiths to just 2 models.


Necrons 3

My warriors with lance-tek comes in from reserves. Guess who I'm going after?


My tomb blades turbo behind his objective. My Overlord goes after his scatter walkers.


Necron movement. Not much happening here, though my monolith is actually moving backwards. I am anticipating his last turn rush towards my objective, but that thing is just sooo sloooowwwwwwwww.


If you guessed that my warriors were going after his fire dragons, then you've guessed wrong. My single lance shot wrecks his serpent with the star engines. Yes!!!


My C'tan and troops actually head back towards my objective.


My Overlord then assaults his walkers.


He only manages to kill 1 walker.

In the wraith-seer-council melee, I can't get past his fortuned saves and he whiffs against me this time. Neither of us is able to cause a successful unsaved wound.


Eldar 4

Mechdar goes back to defend his objective.


Serpent finally makes a move for my objective.


Fire dragons shoot down 4 warriors. 2 then get back up.

His serpents fail to get past my tomb blades' 2+ cover. His shuri-walkers have no target that they can see and so they run back towards his deployment zone.


Fire dragons then assault my warriors.


I actually win combat 2-1. Fire dragons pass morale.


I catch a big break here. Despite Fortune, I insta-kill his farseer, he does no damage in return and I break his unit. I then consolidate to make sure he keeps falling back.

I forget that dangerous terrain tests are failed on a 1-2 here because of my C'tan as he fell back into the serpent wreck.


Necrons 4

My units continue to fall back towards my objective.


Tomb blade turbo-boosts away from his objective.

Wraiths advance towards his objective. I make sure to be within 6" of his seer council so that they will keep falling back.


I'm not sure whether it was my lance or particle whip, but I shake his serpent on its way to contest.

In combat, my Overlord kills another walker, and the warriors and fire dragons fail to kill each other.


Eldar 5

Overview of the top of Turn 5.


Seer council continues fleeing.


Eldrad disembarks. His serpent then climbs on top of the hill to cover his objective.


His serpent makes his DT test, goes flat-out again and tank shocks 2 of my units. He needs 1 more turn in order to be able to contest.


Eldrad tries to Mind War my wraith but fails. His seer council, along with 1 or 2 wave serpents, then leave a parting gift to my Doomed wraiths in the form of a shuriken meal that gives them indigestion and diarrhea.


On the bright side, his shuri-walkers fire at my tomb blades and take down 1. I then make my 3rd consecutive RP test for him. These guys eat their Wheaties!


He finally causes 1W to my Overlord in assault. I only manage to shake his last walker.


Necrons 5

I'm going in for the win as I turbo my tomb blades to contest his objective.

Here we have a little bit of a debate. My eldar opponent was under the impression that I could not move there as I would be underneath his skimmers. I told him that in a multi-level terrain, just like multi-level ruins, you could only occupy 1 level with just 1 model, not both. But because we really didn't discuss this at the beginning, I offered to roll off for it. He was cool with that.

So I rolled and won. My tomb blades are contesting.


I go to gang up on his skimmer, with my C'tan ready to assault in case my shooting fails.


1 lance, a particle whip and a bunch of gauss weaponry and I couldn't wreck it. I only manage to blow off its main gun and then shake it. BTW, here I forget to fire my tremor-tek to put him in difficult terrain.


So it's off to assault. My C'tan just cannot hit such a fast vehicle.


Finally, my Overlord finally manages to blow up his last scatter-walker.


-------------------------------------------------------------------



So currently I have my own objective....


....and am contesting his.


If the game ends now, I win.


We to see if the game continues....


-------------------------------------------------------------------


....and it does.


Eldar 6

His serpent moves flat-out to contest my objective.

Here we have another controversial play. He tankshocks my lance unit. I opt to Death & Glory and succeed in penning his serpent. He then proceeds to roll for his flat-out cover save. I told him that this wasn't actually a shooting attack, that D&G was a special attack and thus, no cover. So we decide to ask a 3rd party. That 3rd party person also thought that he should get cover, so I give it to him. He then passes and I lose my lance-tek.

Afterwards when I got back home, I checked the BRB FAQ's. It turns out that I was correct - that you don't get cover from a D&G "attack". Oh well, it was just a casual game so it really didn't matter too much. I will let him know next time I see him.


His jetbikes continue to fall back because last turn, I made sure to keep my tomb blades within 6" of them. However, now they are blocking the path of my Overlord to his objective (they're actually on the hill but we left them on the bottom because they won't stay on).


Shuri-walkers advance. Their guns are just barely out of range of my tomblades. Woooo <* breathes a sigh of relief *>.

Eldrad moves towards my tomb blades. He is dangerously close. He then tries to Mind War them but fails.

Now for assault. If Eldrad makes the assault, he could well pull me out of contesting range. We measure his assault and it turns out that he is out by a fraction of an inch. Woooohoooo <* breathes another sigh of relief *>.


Necrons 6

I move my tomb blades out of Eldrad's possible assault range.


My Overlord moves up the hill.


I get ready for a last hurrah against his contesting serpent. It's going to be tough to get rid of his serpent and the avengers inside. I've lost my lance-tek and my C'tan is out of assault range.

I fail to do anything to his serpent after cover saves.


So I have no choice but to assault in order to contest the objective (they did not fire). So my objective is contested.


As is my opponent's objective.


We roll to see if the game will go to a Turn 7 but it doesn't.




Draw!!!


-------------------------------------------------------------------


POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

Necrons:
For my post-game analysis, I'm just going to focus on my necrons and the overall games.

I'll start off first with my opponents. For both of them, this was their first games against the new necrons. Because of that, I think this gave me an advantage. Both were playing too cautiously, especially my eldar opponent. Both were not sure of the right target priorities. While shooting down my CCB was the right move, they should have tried to take out my wraiths as well. My Imperial Fists opponent did attempt to do so by dedicating a substantial portion of his army. Alas, it just wasn't enough. My eldar opponent, however, didn't until I forced his hand and backed him into a corner. If he had redeployed his 2 war walkers closer to my wraiths with Eldrad's ability and focused on them, I don't think I would have been able to win or even draw that game. But this is typically what happens when you play against a new army that you just aren't familiar with. These types of things happen and you just learn from them. No biggie.

Reserving one's army without a way to bring it in quickly is never a good idea IMO, no matter what army you go up against. The battle against the Space Marines just shows what can happen if your army comes in piecemeal. Now I don't hold it against my opponent for reserving his army due to our miscommunication (as I think he would have played it the "right way" had he known), but you are just taking a big risk when you fight your opponent's entire army with just a portion of yours. If my army had more fast units or even a modicum of shooting (in order word, if I brought a better army), I think the results would have been even more disparaging. Only a very few armies can accomplish this (i.e. daemons, some drop pod armies) successfully. Unfortunately, MSU shooty armies are not one of them. But he was a good sport and chose to have a more challenging game for himself. And this is not really a knock on my opponent, but my opinion on reserve armies in general.

As for my army and gameplay, it was subpar. My list just lacks overall mobility of troops and more importantly, shooting. Whereas in my wraithwing or MTO necrons, I compensate for the lack of shooting with speed from a lot of dangerous units, I just don't have that here. My shooting was poor, my mobility so-so and my assault really isn't that scary (only to MSU-type armies). I couldn't even take on the seer council without a little bit of luck (his farseer failing 2 invulns from my rending insta-killing wound). But this is an experimental list. You won't see me take this list when I'm taking my TAC (Take-All-Comer's) army.

I also made my share of mistakes in these games. I thought that my tremorstaves were only 24" in range when they were actually 36". I forgot about Reanimation Protocols for my tomb blades in the 1st game of this report (and all the games preceding that actually). I didn't protect my monolith against drop pod melta (didn't even know he had a drop pod melta in his army). I left my scarabs out in the open to get shot down by the war walkers without cover. I misplayed my monolith and should have considered deepstriking it, especially in the game against mechdar (though I was concerned about his fire dragons). I was just lucky that my opponents' unfamiliarity with my army (and also the mistakes they made) helped to overcome all the mistakes I made.

Now, let's get to the units:

Overlord on Command Barge: A. A very dangerous unit that my opponents just couldn't ignore. Killed an ironclad, 1 unit of attack bikes and 2 units of 3 war walkers. This unit consistently performs and performs well.

Orikan: D. Not enough info. I usually give this grade to a unit that doesn't really do anything. His abilities were never really tested. I may give him another try in the future, though I'm most likely not going to use him for the long haul.

Lance Cryptek: B-. Decent shooting. Could have used more of them. Immobilized 1 land speeder and wrecked the star engine wave serpent.

Tremorstave Cryptek: D. The only thing they did was contribute to the immobilization of 1 predator, though in all fairness, I played them wrong. I will definitely give them another try.

C'tan: C-. Was just too slow to go anywhere. Both of my opponents ignored him and were not really bothered by his Writhing Worldscape. Killed the drop pod. I will definitely give him another try as I want to give the tremorcrons another go.

Triarch Stalker: D. Not enough info. His shooting didn't do much, though that is partially because my opponent was making his cover saves against it. I see this unit with a lot of potential in the right list. This just wasn't it. Will definitely give him a try again in the future.

Warriors: C. Ignored like usual. It was funny to actually see them win combat (against the fire dragons).

Scarabs: B. Another huge threat to my opponents. My mechdar opponent knew to take them out quickly. Scarabs took out 1 transport before we called it. These guys do well consistently and I like the fact that they are a huge psychological threat to my mech opponents.

Wraiths: A. Another all-star performance by them. Took out a razorback, 1 land speeder, 2-3 combat squads, the librarian, a farseer and a seer council and withstood a ton of firepower in the process. More importantly, they really affected my opponent's play, forcing my eldar opponent to play a defensive game. They have shined in almost every game I've played.

Tomb Blades: B. They only killed 1 speeder the whole game, but they redeemed themselves in game #2 without firing a single shot. Lol. Another threat, though more psychological than physical, and my primary means of contesting in objectives-based games. Surviving to be able to contest in game #2 makes them worthwhile IMO, though I'd be hard pressed to fit them into my TAC list over my wraiths and scarabs.

Monolith: C. I felt that I could have better utilized the monolith in these games, but then again, this is my very first 2 games with it ever. I didn't really get to gauge how well it actually did, at least not to my satisfaction. I will be using this lugging behemoth in the future.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


MVP's: Wraiths, Overlord. In game #1, I give it to my wraiths for getting the most KP's and actually surviving.

In game #2, it's a lot closer. Wraiths wiped out his seer council and forced my opponent to play a different game. Tomb blades survived to contest the enemy objective. But at last, I gave it to my Overlord on command barge for stopping my opponent's main offense, his 2 scatter walker units. If those 2 units had been allowed to survive and fire, both my wraiths and tomb blades probably wouldn't have survived to do what they did.

whigwam wrote:

jy2 wrote:
However, and this is some debate with regards to this, but I think you can convert the immobilization into 1W for your Overlord due to Symbiotic Repair. Just go through this rule with your opponent first before the game to avoid in-game arguments.

Agree with this interpretation (and the recommendation to bring it up before a game). This is not an rare occurrence either. It comes up for me all the time---maybe half the games where I use a CCB, if not more. Really wish the FAQ had spelled this one out more clearly! It's important!

Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't clarify this in the FAQ.

Janthkin wrote:Remind me, next time I see your Eldar opponent, to remind HIM that War Walkers can outflank. That would have forced some rather dramatic changes on your deployment, I think - you couldn't afford to have them walk on into assault on top of your objective.

Oh he knows. He opted not to outflank and you will see why later on.

But if he did, I probably would've left my scarabs behind to "guard" my base.

Anvildude wrote:Don't the rules state that objectives have to be at least 12" away from the table edges?

That's only in Seize Ground missions, not Capture and Control.

Battle report updated.

Amerikon wrote:Is it just me or are about 85% of your battle reports Capture and Control?

It's the dice. Annoying, isn't it?

Battle report completed.

Post-game Analysis up.

Red Corsair wrote:Ha ha, great game! Very flavorful, this is why it is nice to take breaks from competitive lists and just try new things. Not only do I feel it makes you a more rounded player but it is also usually less predictable and funny! Thanks for sharing, liking those Tblades you made btw!

Yeah, I definitely agree. It's fun once in a while to take a break from all that competitive play and just try out something new. But that's 4 games in a row now with my footcrons. You can bet my competitive itch is coming back.

-666- wrote:Well played - the mobility of the Tomb Blades paid off. I think they complimented your army well this game.

Thanks. This is exactly the role I had envisioned for my tomb blades. In an objective-based game, I wanted them to survive to be able to contest more than I needed their offense.

iddy00711 wrote:I think your main (albeit minor) 'mistake' was not deepstriking the monolith. It would have given your troops some extra ground. Aside form that a* level play, i think its just the list that let you down. Termor crons clearly dont work against meched up armies ( which is a good 90% of all armies), especially if they have dozer blades etc. The army only really works if your facing a foot-list. I also dont like tomb blades (my personal op.), it just id rather have an extra unit of wraiths and an A. B. Although i like your msu theme but have you considered a ghost ark? It might give your troops some extra speed for taking objectives. Anyway let me know who you get on.

Yeah, I may give that a try in the future. I'm finding them just too slow for my liking. I think it would be better to deepstrike it near an objective.

Tremorcrons do indeed work better against foot lists. It is more of a defensive build meant to slow and hamper enemy movement. Now if your dice is hot, it could very well screw with mech lists, but that just isn't the average performance you will get from a tremorcron build, just as you shouldn't be expecting to blow up tanks left and right with Immotehk's Lightning Storm. That is a reason why I probably won't use them for my TAC army - I prefer the consistency of some of the other units in the codex.

Tomb blades are cool, but they won't beat out my wraiths and scarabs for a place on my TAC army.

I haven't tried the ghost ark, though I have played against it. My list tend to emphasize speed and offense rather than the support units, so I find it kind of tough to fit it into my TAC list. I may use it in my casual games, but I would need to get one first.

Exalted Pariah wrote:well, I hope you won, now that its clear as to WHY he put his objective on a hill, he thought that if his skimmer was on it then there wouldnt be enough room for you within its capture radius! HOW CHEAP! Did the tomb blades even fire this game or were they purly for capturing?(which they did VERY WELL)

I wouldn't be so hard on him. My objective placement is arguably even worse. Imagine if I squeezed my warriors into the very corner and then park my monolith in front of the objective to screen it out. That is just as bad.

The thing is, if I lost to him because he had 2 skimmers there, the fault is mine and not his. That means I just didn't bring enough AT to deal with his vehicles.

My tomb blades didn't fire at all. I was too worried about his walkers taking them out so I turbo-boosted every turn. That turned out to be a good strategy.

The Shrike wrote:Is it me or did your tomb blades do nothing but turbo boost around the place all game? I'm not contesting their usefulness in that regard; but a little overpriced for that duty, no?

I'd ask you what your unit-by-unit performance opinion was; but I'm guessing you'll want to see them in action again before judging them.

Looking forward to whether there's a turn 6.....

You are correct. I really didn't have a target for them. I would've fired at his seer council but he kept them back and out of my 36" range (12" move and shoot). Firing at his walkers wasn't really efficient. It would've been a trade-off that I would most likely have lost, and I needed them alive to contest at the end. Thus, I did the only thing I could, which was to give my opponent a highly resilient target to take the heat off of some of my other units. So even though my tomb blades didn't contribute offensively, they did contribute defensively by drawing fire and contesting his objective. They are a little pricey in that regard, but the shadowlooms kept them alive and their particle beamer is what made my opponent focus on them as well as kept his seer council out of reach (of my troops and objective).

whitespirit wrote:As I was one of the people in the 3rd party. I must confess I didnt say anything. Mainly cause I am fairly new and secondly because I was a bit confused by the question. I apologize that I should have come over and asked questions of the circumstances.
Then I probably would have voted for no cover save because "Death and Glory" I thought was a melee attack. Anyhow, very well played to both of you.

I played that eldar army the previous week and to say the least my sisters really struggled with their mobility.

No worries. It was quite an unusual event. If even I wasn't 100% sure of the ruling, I don't really expect a lot of other players to know as well. I think it's better that if you don't know, just say so rather than to venture a possibly incorrect guess. Worst case scenario is that we simply roll off. Though I would've given him this one just because I won the roll for the multi-level terrain to contest his objective. I'd feel bad for winning 2 rolls in a row and would give him 1 questionable call to make it fair.

Not many armies will be able to keep up with his army. You just got to shoot them down. That usually isn't a problem with my other armies. It's just that my necrons are not typical shooty armies.

When I see those tomb blades I think of futuristic robots in hover wheelchairs.

Lol. What a nice wheelchair it is!



@rigeld2:

Good guess!

junk wrote:Wow, amazing battle report; but wow, Jy2, you just nerfed yourself in the face. The range on the tremorstaves, the dangerous terrain being a 1 or a 2 with the WW c'tan there, the RP on the tomb blades (though they made up for it in the end)... With all those risky moves by the Wave serpents I would have expected to see a couple more immobilized results.

Also, it's a shame that your monolith and c'tan didn't come in more handy in the actual battle - A monolith is a beast in capture and control, but it needs to be closer to either your objective or theirs to really be useful.

Regardless, awesome batrep as usual; will you be using the tremorcrons again, or are you moving on to other builds?

Yeah, I made quite a few boo boos. If only I had played my monolith correctly and used it to defend my objective, I probably could've won.

Here's one thing that I'm somewhat confused about. This may belong in YMDC but then again, it may just be a simple answer.

Writhing Worldscape says you roll for Dangerous Terrain on a 1-2 only if it was already a dangerous terrain. Well, none of the terrain (with the exception of the wrecked serpent that the seer council moved over) was already dangerous to start off with. They are all only difficult made dangerous by the C'tan. Thus, the DT test is only failed on a 1. At least that is my interpretation. Am I way off base?

I will probably give the tremorcrons another go, but next time, I will probably build a more optimized list for them.

Dok wrote:Nice game against the eldar. I thought he would've had you for sure. Also, that's why you never take shuriken cannon walkers!

Thanks. They (shuri-walkers) weren't that bad. I imagine you would only take them if you didn't have enough points for the scatter lasers on those walkers?





Automatically Appended Next Post:

calypso2ts wrote:Great reports for the both of them, I think the Tremorstave list does have some shortcomings when the list is strictly trying to exploit the movement mechanics. That said, I do like the Tremors in some situations and I think they provide a nice broad threat profile to the opponent.

For example, I would keep a few around to take shots at Land Raiders, Storm Ravens and other expensive assault vehicles. These vehicles are (based on their cargo) usually rendered ineffective when immobilized. To achieve an immobilize result on an AV 14 platform with a lascannon (for the sake of comparison) assuming both the staff and lascannon hit....

2.7% immobilized or better on a glance
8.3% immobilized or better on a pen

So 11% of the time you stop the vehicle or better. That dangerous terrain test though immobilizes it 16% of the time. I realize this is not 'reliable' and successive results do not help, but with a C'Tan it is 30% (I think Writhing Worldscape fails on a 1 and 2 right if not I will edit)

Even so, it reminds me of using a Callidus Assassin to force big vehicles to take dangerous terrain tests from the get go and the way that can completely derail an opponents plans....

Not exactly true. You still have to hit the unit first so there's a chance that it may scatter off. Then next turn, it has to test for dangerous terrain and fail on a 1. It would only fail on a 1-2 if it was already on or actually moves over dangerous terrain (at least that's how I interpret it). So realistically, the chances of you immobilizing a vehicle is actually less than 16%.

Also, if you fire at a raven with a lascannon, the chances for you to immobilize it is much higher than 11% due to AV12 (not counting cover).

Also, you can fire multiple lascannons (i.e. 1 unit of devastators or heavy destroyers, who can't split fire anyways) at a tank to increase your chances of disabling it. With the tremor-stave, you only fire once. Granted, the tremor-tek is only 30pts whereas a unit of 3 heavy destroyers is 180, but those HD's wouldn't be able to split fire anyways.

I think tremor-teks actually work better against foot armies, especially assault ones. Move, run and assault....that's 3 dangerous terrain tests you have to make, not to mention most foot-based armies will be in terrain of some sort.

The callidus giving you rear shot of the vehicle was probably better than making it go through terrain...unless of course the vehicle was a LR.

Ok, I just found out I made another BIIIGGGGGG mistake in my games.

Vehicles, bikes and jump infantry treat all difficult terrain as dangerous. So when my tremorstave hit them, it basically puts them in dangerous terrain.

Then Writhing Worldscape should make their dangerous test on a 1-2 because they are already on dangerous terrain (i.e. all difficult is dangerous for them).

This would have had more of an impact on the game.

SabrX wrote:Good btrp jy2.

1st game, your opponent shot himself in the foot by not choosing to re-deploy. He also drop-podded an Ironclad Dreadnought, which is essentially trading 2 kill points for 1. Not sure was he was thinking.

2nd game was good. Your Lord killed a lot of walkers. Game should have been yours.

Thanks.

At the time when we played, we didn't have the hindsight that we have now. Maybe he thought he could still have pulled it off coming in from reserves. But I think it was mainly due to the issue of time why he didn't want to "reset".

But you're right, he should've.

Yeah, game 2 could've been mine if only I'd played the monolith smarter (i.e. more defensively). But those are tactics that I will learn with experience.

mercer wrote:Probably been mentioned, though your Imperial Fist opponent was thinking of turbo boost, which needs to move at least 18".

Yeah, DevianID already pointed it out, but thanks anyways.

calypso2ts wrote:I was under the impression vehicles treat all difficult terrain as dangerous, which triggers the 1 or 2 to fail, but I might be incorrect.

I agree the Staves 'shine' against larger hordes, but it still has some uses against meched opponents.

The chances are better against AV 12, I just looked at AV 14 but the chance to hit for both is about the same (2/3 for BS4 and 1/3 hit on a scatter plus 3" keeps you on target which is a little more than 50% of the scatters for another 1/3 or 2/3 to hit with it).

Overall my impression of the staves is that packing 1 or 2 into an army can provide a lot of flexibility against opponents while occasionally making a big impact on the game.

You are correct. That was another boo boo that I made. I didn't fully understand the rules for the tremorcron combo, but now I think I've got a better grasp on it.

I will definitely give my tremorcrons another go again.

Yes, correct.

Tremorstave hits vehicle and makes it difficult. However, units such as vehicles, bikes and jump infantry all treat difficult terrain as dangerous. Thus, in effect, the tremorstave hits the vehicle and makes it dangerous. As it is already dangerous, the WW c'tan then makes that vehicle test on a 1-2 instead of just 1.

Illumini wrote:The placement of your jetbikes under his skimmers seems like it is illegal because you are within 1" of him. Not the case the round you assaulted with them of course

But my point about multi-level terrain is that they don't share the same space at all. Just like in multi-level ruins, you can be directly underneath another unit and it is ok. Also, for multi-level terrain, just the slope going up to the next level is easily more than 1" (just as in ruins, going up 1 level is considered to be 3" normally unless agreed upon otherwise).

kestral wrote:Your wraiths look pretty interesting - I assume they're off tomb king models, but do you have any closeups?

Sure, they're from the Tomb King Necropolis Knights/Sepulchral Stalkers kit.





That is about as close as I've got, though you may find other close-ups in my various necron battle reports.

Luide wrote:

Cryage wrote:jy2 is correct, "levels" are treated as 3" apart. I think he did it right.

Apologies if this is considered derailing, but are there some rules about other multi-level terrain than ruins somewhere in brb or elsewhere? As IMO rules that specifically refer to multi-level ruins (which assume that each level is at least as high as a model, and are at least partially on top of each other) cannot really be used for hills.
For example, I assume you would have allowed bikes and non-skimmers like rhinos to move on top of the hill, even though multi-level (ruin) rules say that is specifically not allowed.

Actually, the BRB is kind of vague on any terrain that is not ruins. It doesn't really give explicit guidelines like it does with the ruins. The problem here is that we were both assuming different things. My opponent was assuming it was all 1 piece of connected terrain. I was assuming, due to the fact that it had 2 distinct levels, that it was a multi-level terrain (and the only rules about multi-level terrain in the book is covered under ruins). We really didn't discuss if before the game as we both really hadn't thought about it then.

So when the situation occurred, because we hadn't agreed upon how to run it initially, we did what the book tells you to do in such a situation....we rolled for it and I won.

sumi808 wrote:I really like the way you set out the report with the lists, ask us who we think will win, then pre game analysis, photos and brief explanation in between

maybe a drawn map as well in between turns showing what happened - kinda like in a WD issue would make it all round perfect

a fine job

Thanks.

Unfortunately, I am not proficient in the software called Vassal that they normally use to draw these types of maps. What I try to do instead is to take pictures at the beginning of each game turn, though sometimes, I do forget to do this.

Pyriel- wrote:

I think unfamiliarity with the codex is what really hurt him this game. He did make some mistakes but ultimately, I felt that he under-estimated the speed and resiliency of my necrons. But this will all change the more he plays against them. Let's just say that I probably "de-virginized" him with how the new necrons play.

Dunno. Feels more and more like the SM codex gets worse and worse with every new codex creep.
In the beginning drop pods were fun and useful, now the drop pod and its first turn rule is mostly a drawback.

Hope it wont take yet another decade till the SM get their codex redone, so many units in it are so overpriced/crappy that nobody ever use them that it´s sad.

While the C:SM is showing its age, it still has some kick in it left. It's true to it has a hard time against some of the newer, more competitive builds, but have you ever faced a Shrike 30 TH/SS fleeting terminators army with scout troops, some MM land speeders (or MM attack bikes) and thunderfire support? Or a properly designed Vulkan list? Those armies can still compete. Also, they can do a decent bike army.

I feel the current SM armies are ok. They're not the best, but they're far from being the worst. And that Shrike terminator list they have is particular nasty to a lot of armies.

In the case of my opponent's army, I think it's actually an above-average army. It's not a hardcore competitive list and it probably won't dominate, but it can perform reasonable well against many builds, including my unoptimized necron army had he a little more experience against them.

Anvildude wrote:Hopefully it will you mean. Because if that's the case, more Xenos codexes will be updated before them.

Trust me. Once 6th ed. comes out, I think the new C:SM won't be far behind. It's possibly their flagship and most popular codex IMO, thanks to the Battle of Maccrage and Assault on Black Reach box sets.