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Any advice and criticism is really appreciated. I wanted to do it based on Sven Bloodhowl so try and keep the flamers if you can. It's my first army back in a while so don't be gentle, I know it needs work!

Wolf Lord (561pts)
- Terminator Armour, 2x Wolf Claws, Saga of the Warrior Born, 2x Fenrisian Wolves
- Accompanied by 2x Wolf Guard - 2x Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Frost Blade
- All in Land Raider with Multi-melta upgrade

Wolf Scouts (100pts)
-5x Wolf Scout,
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Meltagun

Wolf Scouts (100pts)
- 5x Wolf Scout
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Meltagun

GH Pack (223pts)
- 10x GH
- Meltagun
- Flamer
- Powerfist & Wolf Standard
- Wolf Guard with basic Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Power Weapon

GH Pack (203pts)
- 10x GH
- Meltagun
- Flamer & Mark of the Wulfen
- Wolf Guard with Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Power Weapon

GH Pack (203pts)
- 10x GH
- Meltagun
- Flamer
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Wolf Guard with Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Power Weapon

Skyclaw Pack (325pts)
- 10x Skyclaw
- Wolf Priest with Runic Armour & Jump Pack

Fenrisian Wolf Pack (80pts)
- 10x Wolves

Long Fangs (90pts)
- Pack Leader with Meltagun
- Lascannon
- Missile Launcher

Vindicator (115pts)


Total: 2000pts

Hey,
well I can see what you are going for here but there are a few things I would try to re-tool in your list.
You have a lot of foot slogging men on the board, that's fine but you are in danger of being lashed once you have feet on the ground, you need to come up with a means to prevent that happening and the best way I can think is a rune priest, he offers a huge area of anti-psyker protection with his runic weapon.

Now more specific stuff...
A godhammer Land raider is a waste when it comes to dropping men into cc and since your have terminators and they don't have frag grenages you need the frag assault launchers that you get on a crusader to ensure you aren't wasting the initiative on your wolf lord and his boys. The crusader also offers the ability to pepper the enemy with 12 tl bolter shots, tl assault cannon and a metla gun blast before the lord jumps in and with 6 attacks with re-rolls. A redeemer can also get a lot of damage done before the big charge.
The godhammer is good for sitting back and blasting away with it's lazcannons or creeping forward slowely but what is the point of a wolf lord that sits back waiting for things to happen. In your list the landraider is the only major piece of armour and it will be taking every single heavy weapon that the enemy has got so you need to keep it moving forward and to get it into combat asap. I would re-think the investment of points in the landraider, you only end up leaving the deathstar stranded in the front without any major support while your army moves up slowly to cover it's flanks.

The army lacks any real long range support, you have a vindicator which is ok but is for nailing infintry more then tanks as you would need to rush it accross the board, it works best in a BA list due to being fast, I find that it can be easily countered if it is not run in a group of 2 and with other tanks on the board to force the opponent to split his fire up. Drop it for something else.

You have also overlooked and kinda misunderstood the point of the best heavy support choice in the codex, long fangs are great, you have an ablative squad leader and as many men as possible with either a 1:1 split in the loadout or a single type of heavy weapon for the mathhammer. The squad leader is only there to allow you to split fire, he is the first man out when wounds come along, he never gets any upgrades cos if you ever get to use them then you are unfortunately doing it wrong. My advice is to take a mix of lazcannons and missile launchers in two or three 6 man long fang packs and have a leader with nothing on him. You get to split fire and give out some good anti-troop and anti-armour shots. Plus two wound terminators love lazcannon in the face.

The grey hunters have mixed weapons, having two of them means that they are more effective, pick the roll they will be filling and stick to it, the flamer will always hit but the melta gun may not hit when you need it to, as such this is the reason people use combi-meltas on their wg as a backup. I see you have a powerfist in one of your squads, if you stuck it on the wolf guard, you can put the power weapon on a GH and get an extra attack with the fist for 5 points extra. Five points is well worth it for the possibility of another attack that can instant kill characters or mess up a tank. I'd try and fit a chain fist or thunderhammer into each of the squads as it gives you a big advantage in CC against tanks or walkers/MC's.

Skyclaws don't gel with the rest of your list, they move forward quickly similar to the landraider but lack the power to hit hard and overwhelm an opponent, for what you have there you can nearly have another GH squad with a WG squad leader. I think you need to focus on a support unit for your troops, as I said above think about switching the wolf priest out for a rune priest with a chooser of the slain, you have the wolf lord for combat so the rune priest can give you a different means towards winning the game.

How do you use the fenrisian wolves? I would use them as a screen that can run forward to get into combat and tie up an enemy squad and prevent them from making an impact on the game.

So in conclusion, either swap landraider or drop it entirely, you need more tanks if you keep the land raider otherwise the vindicator will just be popped in no short order. You need more anti armour firepower, more lazcannons and more missiles are needed to take out the very common mechanised lists. Jump pack troops need to be in multiples or they just get left out on their own and the swifclaws are not an efficient use of your points.

liturgies of blood wrote:
consider rune priest against lash
land raider is a linchpin
needs more long fangs
don't mix weapons
don't take skyclaws

+1

If you absolutely don't want to drop the raider then I suggest another two vindicators. Three vindicators and a wolf lord-raider is a lot of big threats and they're all 13+, at least in the front.

Thanks guys, I see where you're coming from and realise what needs changing.

Back to the drawing board!

Almarine wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:
consider rune priest against lash
land raider is a linchpin
needs more long fangs
don't mix weapons
don't take skyclaws

+1

If you absolutely don't want to drop the raider then I suggest another two vindicators. Three vindicators and a wolf lord-raider is a lot of big threats and they're all 13+, at least in the front.

Now that is some distillation of my message :p
I am not sure you should never mix weapons, if you do it's gotta be 2:3 laz to missile, it can work but a twin lazorback would be better for bringing the anti-heavy armour since re-rolls are king, the missiles do have amazing versatility to kill things so I'd be aiming for that.

Any advice and criticism is really appreciated. I wanted to do it based on Sven Bloodhowl so try and keep the flamers if you can. It's my first army back in a while so don't be gentle, I know it needs work!

Dancing Nalwood wrote:Wolf Lord (561pts)
- Terminator Armour, 2x Wolf Claws, Saga of the Warrior Born, 2x Fenrisian Wolves
- Accompanied by 2x Wolf Guard - 2x Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Frost Blade
- All in Land Raider with Multi-melta upgrade

Not a totally bad way to go actually. The Fenrisian Wolves aren't spectacular for killing power, but they are only 1 attach worse each than your Wolf Guard would be. Someone's gonna take Power Weapon hits, may as well be the 6+ save guys. The only thing you miss out on is power weapon attacks, but they are 10 points each instead of 33 points each (at bare minimum) so its not that bad a trade off for some easy wounds. You don't actually lose out on killing power really.

Dancing Nalwood wrote:
Wolf Scouts (100pts)
-5x Wolf Scout,
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Meltagun

Wolf Scouts (100pts)
- 5x Wolf Scout
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Meltagun

Can't go wrong with Wolf Scouts. I'm starting to run mine as a pack of 7 (plus 1 Wolf Guard) with Power Weapons as well, but spending 40 points for a 2nd 5 man isn't a bad way. And necessary since you don't appear to have Combi-Melta toting Wolf Guard to tag along with them.

Dancing Nalwood wrote:
GH Pack (223pts)
- 10x GH
- Meltagun
- Flamer
- Powerfist & Wolf Standard
- Wolf Guard with basic Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Power Weapon

GH Pack (203pts)
- 10x GH
- Meltagun
- Flamer & Mark of the Wulfen
- Wolf Guard with Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Power Weapon

GH Pack (203pts)
- 10x GH
- Meltagun
- Flamer
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Wolf Guard with Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter, Power Weapon

Okay now we have problems.

First, don't total the points of Wolf Guard + Grey Hunters. It starts you thinking the wrong way about how your Codex works. It also isn't strictly true for where your points are going and can make things look very off.

I play a foot list so don't get me wrong, I like big squads with TDA Wolf Guard. It doesn't perform badly really. The only problem is you only have 3. I'm barely OK with that at 1750, and even the I don't like it. At 2000 I don't see why you aren't bringing at least 4 Grey Hunter squads. If not 5.

Also, you have 5 Wolf Guard. Where is the Assault Cannon (or CML if you want, but the Assault Cannon is better in my opinion and experience)? That adds some important firepower to your scoring units you are missing.

Your points are wrong as well. You can take Flamers for free and then with 10 take a free Meltagun. So you are overpaying for your squad.

Worse, you gave them a Power Fist. This is a mistake. You will usually only get 1 attack with it. Its not worth the points on that model. The standard argument is a Grey Hunter with Power Fist costs 40 points. He has a Bolter and 1 Power Fist attack (2 if charging). For 43 points you can take a Wolf Guard (bumping your leadership to 9) and give him a Combi weapon (giving you 2-3 special weapons) and the Power Fist, with which he gets 2 attacks (3 if charging). Its simple math.

Bluntly, its a stupid decision to put a Power Fist on the Grey Hunter. The Power Weapon is useful, given you get 3 attacks on the charge, and is reasonably priced. So if you want to sub the Fist for a Axe (or Sword) go for it.

And since you are on foot, personally I find I want more Plasma than Melta when I'm walking. By the time I'm in Melta range on foot (which is 6") I'm usually having to do something else anyways. Its just not as useful to you on foot, even on the move. But that's my opinion and plenty disagree with it.

I'd also say you are okay not doubling on special weapons, though if you are bringing a Meltagun I'd bring two. Just because its cheap (your point cost wouldn't change) and you can slaughter most things you'd need flamers for in close combat.

Dancing Nalwood wrote:
Skyclaw Pack (325pts)
- 10x Skyclaw
- Wolf Priest with Runic Armour & Jump Pack

Cute but not as effective as what I bring:

220 - WGBL w/ Thunderwolf, Storm Shield, Frost Weapon, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman, Saga of the Warrior Born
120 - TWC x2, 1/ Wolf Claw

Mines 340 points versus your 325. Want to make it more fair? Drop Saga of the Warrior Born. Now mine is 305 vs your 325. Mine will out perform yours every time. I'm putting out 5 S6 I5 no-save attacks (more with the Saga in effect), 5 S5 I4 no-save attacks with re-rolls to hit and 6 S5 I4 rending attacks. And that includes if I had already taken a wound or two on the way to the enemy.

In a perfect world, you'll get 40 S4 I4 attacks and 4 S4 I4 no-save attacks with re-rolls to hit. The problem is you will rarely make it to the enemy like that. Your guys move at a different pace than the rest of your army. Cavalry moves 6", can run 1-6", and has Fleet so can charge 12". You can move 12", probably will have to land in the open, and can charge 6". Yours has T4 vs T5 and I have a 3++ on my HQ vs your 4++. Chances are, by the time you get to the enemy, you'll be missing a few members while I'll still have everyone.

Even worse is their defensive capabilities in close combat. This is what will really kill you. You have WS3 vs my WS4. That means other Space Marines are hitting you on a 3+ instead of mine on a 4+. More hits means more chances to wound. Worse, you are Fearless. if you do lose close combat you suffer No Retreat and take even more saves. Skyclaws generally only survive one charge, and even then they tend to be too battered to be very useful afterwards.

If you stick on foot, you need some fast movers though, for rapid response if nothing else. I'd really consider trying to get some Thunderwolf Cavalry inplace of the Skyclaws. I think the idea of riding giant wolves is silly in W40K. I'm okay with it in Fantasy but for some reason I think its weird here. At the same time though, its the only real choice in the list.

Dancing Nalwood wrote:
Fenrisian Wolf Pack (80pts)
- 10x Wolves

Oddly enough, these are not bad. Generally though you want Saga of the Wolfkin to make them Ld7 I5, and have a Thunderwolf near them so they can re-roll leadership tests they fail.

Dancing Nalwood wrote:
Long Fangs (90pts)
- Pack Leader with Meltagun
- Lascannon
- Missile Launcher

The Pack Leader might make use of a Plasmagun, but the Meltagun I doubt will do much. You don't get many places to take heavy weapons, and they are exceptionally cheap here. By not taking more you are doing yourself a disservice.

Dancing Nalwood wrote:
Vindicator (115pts)

Almost always useless by themselves. They can be okay in pairs, but there are better options (more Long Fangs comes to mind).

Dancing Nalwood wrote:
Total: 2000pts

You have missed several opportunities to bring firepower you need. Your list has a whopping 4 weapons that can fire at range, and half aren't twin-linked. Everything else is a mid-range weapon. This means that armies with lots of vehicles toting guns (Razorspam, Mechdar, Mech Guard, Any other IG, Tau, etc) will be shooting you up pretty steadily. You will not have a lot left by Turn 3. You need more ranged guns. Simple as that. Some guns around S7 that can put out a lot of shots.

A Rune Priest with Living Lightning for example. Or a Dreadnought with two TLAC. Or more Long Fangs (this is the smartest one). Or a Predator if you must. But you need more.

liturgies of blood wrote:

Almarine wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:
consider rune priest against lash
land raider is a linchpin
needs more long fangs
don't mix weapons
don't take skyclaws

+1

If you absolutely don't want to drop the raider then I suggest another two vindicators. Three vindicators and a wolf lord-raider is a lot of big threats and they're all 13+, at least in the front.

Now that is some distillation of my message :p

Sorry if it offended you : D

Definitely drop the meltagun with the Long Fangs. I suggest taking a minimum of 4, LC, ML, HB for around a 100 or so. At five you can take 5 with another ML for 25 more points. This I find to be pretty effective splitting fire and threatening both armor and infantry. Doesn't hurt to be able to spread hits out as well.

I have to agree about the melta in a foot squad. If I remember, the GHs are equiped with bolter, BP and CCw, so they can be effective in moving and shooting or assaulting, but without a transport that melta is going to be working overtime to get within kill range. I would opt for a plasma in foot wolfs.

The issue I have with DTA in foot squads is you can't overrun a routed unit in HtH (I think...) I would either change those WG to power armor and equip them with some combi-weapons and a meltabomb to deal with oportunistic charges on vehicles or to disuade tank shocking.

I would put those DTA WG with your commander in the land raider to help boost his assault capabilities.

I am not sold that Skyclaws are all that bad, I would maybe take them in a smaller squad to increase your threat range. Attaching the Wolf priest with jump would help, just give him a meltabomb as well. Know a meltagun and a plasma pistol could threaten walkers, side armor vehicles etc. before the charge. Maybe even a powerfist, but I don;t recall if they can take one.

As for kitting out your GHs, I agree mixing can be less effective, but I also like having versatility, so it really depends upon your play style.

Good luck.

Almarine wrote:
Sorry if it offended you : D

Nah, I was just saying you just boiled it down to the bare essentials there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Barathoern wrote:Definitely drop the meltagun with the Long Fangs. I suggest taking a minimum of 4, LC, ML, HB for around a 100 or so. At five you can take 5 with another ML for 25 more points. This I find to be pretty effective splitting fire and threatening both armor and infantry. Doesn't hurt to be able to spread hits out as well.

Don't split your long fangs into 3 different weapon types, 2 is a maybe but never 3. The reason for this is while you may want to hit troops and tanks in the same turn, you kill off the ability to split fire in the 1st wound you allocate, that leaves you with in your load out 1 weapon totally anti-troop, 1 totally anti-armour and one switch. The heavy bolter doesn't have the range, you loose out on it every turn you go for armor or you move towards the front and loose a turn of shooting. I suggest picking one thing and sticking to it but if you have to split take 2 different heavy weapons that compliment one another. Lazcannons and missile launchers, heavy bolters and plasma. But a mix of everything is a disaster.

The issue I have with DTA in foot squads is you can't overrun a routed unit in HtH (I think...) I would either change those WG to power armor and equip them with some combi-weapons and a meltabomb to deal with oportunistic charges on vehicles or to disuade tank shocking.

TBH anything that would prove a problem if they broke and ran from assault would be a problem anyway. Space marines would reform if they weren't run down and even if they were run down it's just a new round of cc, everything else you can shoot it until it runs off the board. The terminator isn't much of a bonus until you get hit with a hail of fire. One WG model in terminator armour is a hard thing to shift off an objective with fire, that guy can survive a lot of fire to win a game. By all means give him a combi-melta but having a combi-melta on a WG is not a reason to death or glory him, since he should have the power fist wait and use him to charge the tank in the assault phase and a power weapon is usually a bigger threat as it has more chances to pen and wreck the vehicle.

I am not sold that Skyclaws are all that bad, I would maybe take them in a smaller squad to increase your threat range. Attaching the Wolf priest with jump would help, just give him a meltabomb as well. Know a meltagun and a plasma pistol could threaten walkers, side armor vehicles etc. before the charge. Maybe even a powerfist, but I don;t recall if they can take one.

The reason they are not great is that you have to put a lot of points into them to make them any good. They can't work as a counter strike unit cos anything you need to counter strike is going to have a decent WS which is a problem for someone with the skills of an IG trooper. They can contest stuff in the end game but so can anything so what is their true use in this army? For the same points you can have TWC which are a much more intersting unit who can cover a full 24 inches and charge rather then 18. Anything that a plasma pistol could be of use for long fangs can kill better.