Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Had the wonderful pleasure of playing in Astronomicon-Dallas this weekend, taking my Emperor's Children again. The tournament was 1,500 points and is known for its crazy scenarios.

The list:
HQ
Daemon Prince, Mark of Slaanesh, Wings, Lash - 155
Daemon Prince, Mark of Slaanesh, Wings, Lash - 155

Troops
5 Noisemarines, champion with doomsiren and meltabombs in a rhino with combi-meltagun - 180
5 Noisemarines, champion with doomsiren in a rhino with combi-meltagun - 175
10 chaos space marines, 2 meltaguns in a rhino with combi-meltagun - 215
10 chaos space marines, 2 meltaguns in a rhino with combi-meltagun - 215

Elites
Chaos Dreadnought with extra ccw and heavy flamer - 105

Heavy Support
Chaos Defiler, extra ccw, twin-linked heavy flamer - 150
Chaos Defiler, extra ccw, reaper autocannon - 150

Total: 1,500


Game 1

Played versus IG. His list, approximated:
Straken with command squad in valkyrie
veteran squad with meltas and bastone in vendetta
veteran squad with meltas with sgt. harker in vendetta
veteran squad with meltas in vendetta
stormtrooper squad
Marbo

The mission: X-factor. There is a vindicare assassin in board center that players roll off to see who gets to control him. Also, a sandstorm is blowing. All infantry move as though difficult terrain. Vehicles that aren't walkers need to roll a 2+ to move. A 1 counts them immobile for a turn. Skimmers that roll a 1 scatter 3d6" instead of moving. All shooting beyond 12" needs a 6 to hit.

Table quarters deployment.
I roll and get control of the vindicare, shooting down one of the vendettas in the squadron of 2.

Turn 1:
His turn, the other vendetta in the squadron scatters off the board and is dead. The valkyrie scatters 13" right in front of my army. The veterans that abandoned their vendetta shoot and kill the vindicare (enough of this crap!).

My turn, I melta his vendetta and kill the command squad. Nothing much else happens.

Turn 2
His turn, a vendetta arrives with veterans. His other veterans move forward and don't do much. His vendetta misses.

My turn, I kill his veteran squad and approach the newly arrived vendetta.

Turn 3
His newly arrived vendetta scatters off the board and is destroyed. His stormtroopers outflank and appear far from any action. Marbo appears and throws his charge, killing two marines.

My turn I butcher marbo and double-lash his newly arrived stormtroopers into combat with my princes. Tabled.

This poor guy couldn't get a break. The scenario just made it impossible for him to win unless he avoided ever rolling 1's, and unfortunately he rolled lots. I felt bad for him.

Points: 13 battle points [10 for win, +3 for secondary objectives, no minuses]


Game 2 - Necrons

Stormlord
9 warriors
9 warriors
9 warriors
5 immortals
5 immortals
two annihilation barges
1 obliteration thing
3 cryptex with special wargear
3x5 scarabs


Scenario:
6 trucks carrying supply crates are near board center. Annihilate a truck and lose the objective. Wreck it, or immobilize it and shoot its gun off, and it becomes grabbable.

I forget the turn by turn events, but he did teleport into the center of the trucks with the immortals and charged all his scarabs in. I lurched forward and started swinging. He was nearly tabled by the end, but we had managed to destroy three of the objectives, so I couldn't get 4 or more for one of the bonus objectives. I also lost my general, so that cost me a battle point.

Points: 11


Game 3 - Grey Knights
cheap inquisitor
10 purifiers
10 strikes
10 strikes
5 interceptors
dread knight
stormraven
Callidus Assassin

Scenario: Ambulls
straight-up fight, but three little critters with rending can pop out and attack you in a very random fashion. They aren't that bad, but if they kill a unit you lose a battle point.

He put everything into deepstrike. I thought I'd do ok, and things looked good for a while.
Turn 1 - nothing
Turn 2 - he gets a squad of strikes and the stormraven. He shoots a battlecannon off a defiler and stuns a dreadnought.
My turn 2 - I land a good shot on his strike squad. I kill seven, but they hold. I lash the purifiers and charge with the defiler. Unfortunately I roll badly and don't do much damage. Then disaster struck.

I had lashed the purifiers so that they would not have their daemonhammer in range to strike for a turn. Unfortunately, before his next turn an "Ambull" charged into him. Since these guys have their own turns aside from ours, it meant another round of close combat. So he gets a lucky roll and blows up the defiler, as well as kills the ambull, and now he's free to do as he likes on his turn.

Turn 3
He gets the rest of his army in, landing and shooting. They immobilize the other defiler, kill my commander daemon prince, the dreadknight immobilizes a rhino [next to another rhino that immobilized itself on terrain] and they shoot the dreadnought but miss.

My turn I shoot a bunch into the purifier squad and kill it as well as the stormraven, and the inquisitor. Nothing much else happens. I do disembark a squad to shoot his callidus, but she goes to ground in cover for a 2+ cover save.

Turn 4 - the beginning of the end.
Before he gets his 4th turn, an Ambull charges my immobilized rhino and blows it up. There goes a battle point! Now he's free to do as he likes to the unit inside without having to worry about the rhino!

He kills the noisemarines with the dreadknight and destroys the dreadnought. More shooting rips the battlecannon off the second defiler, which sits there with nothing really to do now. I lash the callidus out of cover and gun her down. At this point I feel like I'm up on victory points. I've lost a defiler, a prince, a rhino, a small squad and a dreadnought. Hes out a stormraven, a purifier squad, half a strike squad and an assassin. If I can just survive...

Turn 5
He kills another rhino, and another squad with the dreadknight. He finishes off the defiler. I can't do much. I shoot his dreadknight but to no avail.

Turn 6 - his dreadknight kills my daemon prince and I lose another rhino. My second to last squad breaks and runs.

Game ends, I have three noisemarines cowering behind his stormraven and that's pretty much it.

This game was based on VPs, and while it started out good I couldn't keep it up. I think what I should have done was blast my rhinos out ahead of my defilers. I tried sticking together, since that usually does well for me. But I was afraid to get immobilized on the terrain [there was NO high terrain for vehicle blocking, but LOTS of difficult all over]. This would have made him get very close to my infantry if he wanted to be in range to get to my defilers, and I could kill him as he came in. But that didn't happen. He also rolled a ton, and I mean A. TON. of six's. His dreadknight was able to kill a rhino a turn by reliably rolling a 6 to pen and then a 6 to blow it up. And they just kept on coming. But still, my bad placement meant I wasn't able to damage him at all while he rained fire on me.

Me: 2 points, for losing a unit to an ambull.



Game 4 - Dark Eldar
Baron
Duke
10 hellions
9 trueborn with lots of poison in a raider with the duke
3 trueborn with 2 darklances in raider
10 wyches in raider
3x ravagers
3x reaver jetbikes
all vehicles have flickerfields.

Scenario: Grab supply crates. They can be moved and put into transports. At the end of the game roll a die for each captured objective. On a 1 it's useless and doesn't count. 2-5 it's fine, and on a 6 it's a vital objective and counts as 2. Goal is to get 3 more than your opponent. Only two force organization selections can be deployed at first, and everything else is in reserves. Reserves start on turn 1 and come in on a 5+. On a 1 they come in the left, a 6 they come in the right, and 2-5 come from your home board edge. I went first.

Turn 1
I got two rhinos and a defiler in, as well as a daemon prince and a dreadnought. The rhino and dread rolled 1's, so walked in the left side and blew up one of his ravagers. Defiler landed a hit on another ravager but he made his flickerfield. Everything else moved up, the initial two squads unloaded to grab objectives.

He got his hellions and third ravager in. They moved from the regular table edge. Ravager fired at rhino that had come in the side and immobilized it, the other did nothing.

Turn 2
I got another defiler and the other daemon prince in, bringing me all in. I advanced, hopping the noisemarines back in their rhinos with their objectives, while one of the 10 man squads got out and readied to shoot the hellions. I lashed the hellions forward and filled them with bullets, killing all but the baron, who failed a shadowfield save and was reduced to his normal armor. The other 10-man squad whose rhino was immobilized got out and ran, while their dreadnought popped smoke and readied to defend against whatever reserves were coming. Defilers bounced off flickerfields.

He threw the baron over onto an objective, and would be going to ground the following turn. The rest of his army except the darklance trueborn came in, the wyches coming in by the dreadnought and immobilized rhino. The wyches got out and double-charged the dread and squad. His duke squad moved 6" in their raider and shot at my 10-man squad that had shot his hellions. Out of 8 wounds, 7 failed their saves and both meltaguns were killed. The squad held. He shot his ravagers at my general, wounding him three times. The wyches killed two marines, but the dreadnought and marines killed 2 in return.

Turn 3.
My commander moved, lashed his reavers and charged. The remaining marines of the squad that wasn't wearing any armor apparently moved over and gunned down the baron. My noisemarines advanced, one of them moving to use their rhino's combi-melta at a ravager while the other moved, got out behind their rhino and grabbed another objective. Prince killed the reaver jetbikes, but also died in the process. I failed several saves for my marines against the wyches [what's happened to our armor?!] and killed none, but held. My dreadnought impressively rolled 4 hits, then 4 1's to wound. Also, both defilers bounced off flickerfields and my combi-meltagun also bounced off a flickerfield. The immobilized rhino did manage to take the darklance off the raider nearby though.

He moved around a little, destroying my empty noisemarine rhino. He then shot and did 6 wounds to the unit of noisemarines, who all died, leaving their objectives on the ground. His trueborn with darklances did arrive, and shot at a defiler but missed. He shot defilers with his darklances, but did nothing. His wyches finished off the marines, but lost two to the dreadnought.

Turn 4.
My remaining noisemarine squad moved around to the bottom of a tower where another objective was resting, while the depleted squad of chaos marines moved toward one of his ravagers that had not moved. I shot his raider with the duke, but he passed all his flickerfield saves. A defiler shot his trueborn unit's raider and immobilized it, then charged and annihilated it. The previously immobilized rhino shot his wych raider, stunning it. The other defiler shot another ravager, stunning it. I charged the ravager that hadn't moved with my remaining few marines, auto-hitting with krak grenades. I managed to immobilize it, though it had passed another flickerfield save.

He used his ravager to blow up my other noisemarine rhino. The duke's unit shot my daemon prince, doing 3 wounds. The kabalite trueborn tried shooting the defiler, but failed to get through its armor. My dreadnought finally won a combat versus the wyches, but they held. My marines, still in contact with his ravager, tried their krak grenades again but he passed his flickerfield saves [really tired of this....]

Turn 5.
I move my remaining noisemarine squad up the tower, grabbing another objective. I charge his kabalite trueborn with the defiler, while the other takes another potshot at a ravager, which saves its flickerfield. [grrr!] My prince charges the duke's raider, which didn't move. Only two hits get through the flickerfield, but I annihilate it. Six members of the squad die in the explosion and they fail their morale test, running off the board. My dreadnought also manages to win combat against the wyches and they take off off the board. My depleted marines manage to rip a gun off the ravager.

He shoots my marines up on top of the tower with everything he can, but they go to ground.

Turn 6 - my daemon prince moves and lands on top of the two objective next to each other, picking them up. My other two marines move away from the ravager and grab another objective.

He shoots a darklance at the daemon prince to try to take its last wound, but fails.

I skipped a turn, because it actually went to turn 7. But not much was happening at the end. He had a very damaged ravager and a full-strength ravager alive at game end, but I held 5 objectives.

Points: 12



Game 5 - Orks
His list:
Warboss
big mek
deff dread troop
big nob unit with lots of gear, in a battlewagon with deffrolla
deffkopta with rokkit
2x 3x killakans with rokkits
4x grot scrap wagons or whatever
1x grot megatank
1x killtank or something with a S9 AP3 large blast

Scenario - MINEFIELD. Everything but a 6" border around the edge was difficult and dangerous terrain. Goal is score more victory points.

Both of us deployed along the 6" strip on the side where it was clear. He advanced, I advanced, I immobilized everything in the terrain except my dreadnought on turn 2. But I lashed his deffkopta forward and shot it down, charged and killed his deffdread with a prince, then charged killakans with that prince. He realized he was being outshot and his kans were going to die, so he sent the battlewagon into a noisemarine rhino. He blew it sky high, then continued into the noisemarines. He did 5 wounds, and 4 of them died [my armor! Where is it?!]. He chose not to get out of the battlewagon.

A meltagun immobilized his battlewagon, and then my dreadnought charged and annihilated it. And the big roll of the game.....his nobz were pinned getting out of their wagon. Unable to do much his next turn, I shot the unit with two battle cannons, a few meltaguns, and charged with the dread. He killed it, consolidated towards my princes, which finished off his killakans and consolidated into the wrecks. When trying to charge the prince, his boss took his last wound to dangerous terrain, and losing 1 of the 3 remaining models caused a morale test, which the nobs failed.

He killed 5 noisemarines, a dread and a rhino, and only had a few units left. Solid victory from an unfortunate scenario.

Points: 12

Game 6 - Space Wolves
Wolf lord, eternal warrior, all the talisman stuff, frost blade, shield, thunderwolf, 2x wolves
wolf lord, some other honor, all the talisman stuff, thunder hammer, shield, thunderwolf, 2x wolves
5 wolf guard in a drop pod, one in terminator armor and others with combi-weapons. 2 were divvied out amongst the army.
5 grey hunters, plasmagun, in a razorback with heavy bolters
9 grey hunters, meltagun, banner, wolfen, power weapon, rhino
10 grey hunters, 2 meltaguns, power weapon, drop pod
lucius pattern drop pod with dreadnought with multi-melta

Scenario: City fight. This board was CiTY. FIGHT. with only roads as the clear spaces. Everything else was thick with industrial terrain and difficult to move around. Deployment was in 24" squares on opposite corners, and the objective was to hold objectives [one per section].

He chose a very clear area for his deployment zone, if nothing else than to deny it to me, leaving me with a very cluttered section that didn't even have a crossroad, but rather a road bridging a river.

He deployed everything but a rhino, deploying the drop pod grey hunters to drop the drop pod on an objective just to mess with me.

Turn 1
His dreadnought arrives next to my defiler, rolling a 1 and ending up unable to assault this turn. He shoots an arm off my defiler instead. His wolf guard [3, since 2 joined other squads] come down in the other and immobilize one of my rhinos. His razorback immobilized itself going into a building and his wolf lords advanced down the street, rounding a corner near the center of the next quadrant. His grey hunter squad spread out between two objectives.

My turn I battlecannon the drop pod the wolf guard landed in, killing the terminator and one other. I kill the third with fire from my rhinos. The shot also killed the drop pod. My marines get out and melta the dreadnought, blowing off the close combat arm. Other meltaguns from another squad shoot off the multi-melta, leaving it weaponless. Defiler and daemon princes advance down the road. Princes attempt to lash the wolf lord unit [both of them are joined together, which I'm unsure they can do when they have wolves, but he insisted they were just wargear]. He saves against both with his talismans.

Turn 2
His rhino-borne grey hunter squad appears, and he drives it through a building right off the board edge. It rolls a 1, but succeeds at the reroll. If it hadn't, it wouldn't have made it on the board! He drives through the building until he gets onto a road. The razorback squad gets out and starts trying to navigate a building. The wolf lords move up and charge my forward daemon prince, only the thunderhammer lord making contact. His other drop pod tried to land on an objective to contest, but scattered too far away.

In combat, I put two wounds on his thunderhammer lord, and he killed my prince. His weaponless dreadnought charged my noisemarines near my board edge, killing one.

My turn, I advanced where I could. A squad of marines that shot the dread got back in their tank, moved 6", and blew up the empty drop pod. My defiler and prince positioned themselves to charge the wolf lord unit. My other defiler without one of his arms charged the dreadnought that charged the noisemarines, while the chaos marine squad whose rhino was immobilized blew up his lucius pattern drop pod. My dreadnought also arrived from reserves this turn, having forgotten to deploy him. He walked in down a road far down my long board edge, heading towards his grey hunters spread across two objectives.

My prince tried to finish off his thunderhammer prince, but failed to do so. He and the defiler went simultaneously. The defiler killed his thunderhammer lord, while he ripped off one of the defiler's arms. His other lord did 3 wounds to the daemon prince, and he died to fearless wounds. The defiler managed to immobilize his dreadnought, who killed another noisemarine. They stayed in combat.

Turn 3
He moved his grey hunters in the rhino forward to an objective in the top right quadrant, popped smoke, and unloaded to rapid-fire my marine squad that had been killing drop pods. He killed 3, but they held. His squad from the razorback got held up in the building, rolling poorly. With not much else to do, it went to close combat. His wolf lord with frost blade immobilized the defiler, which wounded him in return [damn eternal warrior!]. My dreadnought killed his dreadnought, and he and the noisemarines consolidated. The defiler forward toward his grey hunters, the noisemarines into a building and an objective, where they would remain.

My turn, the dreadnought got the roll that won the game, blood raging and rolling a 5 for his run move. Going straight down the street he wasn't slowed at all, and was able to charge right into the grey hunters before they could use their meltaguns. My chaos marines on the far right advanced and shot up his grey hunters, while the defiler moved up, heavy flamered them, and charged, killing all but the powerfist. He immobilized the defiler for its trouble. In combat with the wolf lord, nothing happened while the dreadnought killed two grey hunters, which held. My other noisemarine squad drove through a building to get closer to an objective near his side of the board while the other 10-man chaos marine squad drove around the protracted combat with the wolf lord to land on another objective, waiting patiently for the defiler to kill him so they could claim it.

Turn 4
His razorback grey hunter squad stays still to shoot his plasmagun at my defiler's rear, forgetting it's in combat. I let him move them, but they didn't roll highly enough to get off the second story. His rhino tries to shoot my noisemarines on the objective that his dreadnought was killing, but little happens. In assault, I kill his powerfist with my defiler and do nothing to his wolf lord. Dreadnought kills two more marines, which break and run.

I immobilize my other noisemarine rhino trying to get out of a building, so they get out and run. My chaos marines destroy his rhino, claiming the objective it was next to. The defiler wounds the wolf lord again - almost there! But he holds. My dreadnought charges his grey hunters as they try to escape and kills the last of them, consolidating toward his immobilized razorback.

Turn 5
He moves his grey hunters forward and runs to get closer to the objective. Razorback shooting does little. In combat, the wolf lord and defiler do nothing.

I debate taking out the 10 marines in the rhino by the defiler, but the wolf lord has a 2+ save and goes first - I really feel like it would just be sacrificing them. Nervously, I hold out and wait for the defiler to kill him so I can claim this objective. Dreadnought moves down the street and runs instead of charging the razorback. Noisemarines move forward and use their doomsiren and bolters on his grey hunters, killing 3. In combat, nothing happens.

Turn 6
The game goes on! His grey hunters move out and charge my noisemarines, which manage to kill his powerfist and another marine before they can swing. The other attempts to swing but fails to do any damage. They hold. The wolf lord and defiler do nothing.

My turn, the dreadnought joins the fray against the last grey hunter, killing him. I now claim 3 objectives and am waiting for the defiler to kill the wolf lord. In two more turns of combat it doesn't happen, and the wolf lord lives to contest the objective. Still though, holding 3 gets me bonus points, for...

Points: 12

My grand total: 62


I ended up winning best general!! Best overall went to Michael Sanford, the grey knight player that beat me. If I could have managed to beat him I'm sure I'd have ended up best overall, though my painting score was not as good as it could be. Thankfully rather than just docking me, the judges gave me tips on what to improve, so I'll set about doing that for the next tournament.


Still though - had a blast, and best general wooo!!

I liked scenarios 2 and 6, 4 was ok. The rest are complete bs if you ask me. A little randomness in a scenario is fine, but when it affects every roll that's too much. Bad enough that the dice gods turn their back on you, but on top of that you are attacked by tiny ambulls, walking through mines and having an assassin shoot you...harsh.

Thanks for the reports. I am a big Astro fan but I only get to one about every two years. Sometimes the variables in the scenarios are a little tough; I have played on the X-Facxtor table (twice), Hammer and Ambulls, Air Supply. Minefield and Cityfight and have yet to win on any of them. Part of what makes the Astro scenarios fun though are the random elements that can throw a wrench into your plans. Congrats on the Best general Award.

Congrats!

I've played some of these missions at other Astros.

It is good to see someone with an old inferior codex win over the new ones with their shiny toys. Bit sad that you had two Lash Princes though, but seeing that last wolf army with twin eternal warrior lords is also saddening. Never read the wolf dex so I don't know the logic that justifies the Wolf Lords being quasi Immortal.

It is also surprising that the dread helped you win a game and the twin defilers do well. Defilers are big bullet magnets when I use them, though perhaps having twin Demon Princes draws fire away from them.

I'm on hiatus from playing and painting but when the new version of 40K and supposedly a new Chaos Codex comes out I'll be dusting off my old army and putting it back on the table. I may eventually get it working better under the new rules. I have more plans and ambitions then I have time and energy in 40K-land so I'm not making any big plans until I digest the new rules and finish off a few existing models and projects I already own.

Would have been nice to have some pictures... I'm sure someone posted pictures and they'll end up online somewhere.

Oh, I have no sympathy for the first IG player you played. He had four special characters, that seems excessive. Some missions are designed to be harder on some armies or tactics. With the plethora of flyers or at least floaters out there and Chaos having zero access to them, I don't really have any sympathy when they encounter a sandstorm and crash. ;-)

I've played slaanesh since noisemarines were heavy support, and I used the slaanesh power "fleshy curse" because that was the slaanesh power.

When this codex came out, the slaanesh power was lash. Sorcerers also happened to blow, so yes I use two lash princes.

It helped that at this event they did not consider it a psychic shooting attack, but the only fight where it was really that useful was against the necrons.

I've played Michael a couple of times when doing Astro training at gsg and that gk list is deceptively tough. He always deep strikes everything as that is the theme of his army. I like it because it goes against the traditional gk builds but it's tough to beat

how was your opponent able to have a lucius pattern drop pod in the last game?

Forgeworld was allowed at this event, as were VDR vehicles, pending judge approval.

My round 5 opponent had several forgeworld grot tanks, too.


As for Michael's list, it works because grey knights are so damn deadly on the drop. I mean a stormraven full of blood angels or terminators arrives, disembarks, and....well that's it, who cares. Shoot the guys that get out and then charge what's left. With grey knights the stormraven is deadly, what gets out is deadly, and even if you can shoot some of them down, well....good luck assaulting them. 10 purifiers with an inquisitor with grenades. That's a package of death right there.

The rest of the army is similar. A strike squad dropping pumps out a ton of shots - enough to easily wipe out most of a tac squad, and torrent of fire may well take the important weapons right out of it. They don't have to land within 12 or 6" to do their damage, either, like blood angels or combi-melta terminators. Nope, they'll land 24" away and park it - and now you're still doing the same 24" slog across open ground to get to someone that's better at shooting and better at close combat than you that you were doing before - only now they also land behind you so you have 24" to go either way. You've got the guy 24" away in front of you staying still and pumping out 8 shots [as much as an autocannon havoc squad, but with rending and S5 stormbolters] while behind you, another squad follows your travels and does the same with only 4 fewer rending autocannon shots. It's pretty ridiculous. GK are pretty ridiculous. No digs at michael for playing them, he has a theme and he sticks to it but the codex is inherently broken, so it's hard to make a terrible list. His capitalizes on the strengths of being incredibly offensive the turn each unit arrives, then keeping the pressure on and feinting where necessary so he can strike where you're weak. His tactics are sound, and with a codex like that those tactics can't lose.

Spellbound wrote: No digs at michael for playing them, he has a theme and he sticks to it but the codex is inherently broken, so it's hard to make a terrible list.

Not that hard for me! The last Astro I went to was shortly after the new codex arrived and my list was bad (but then again, so am I); as it was a hodge podge from the old codex it lacked all the new toys and coherency. There was another GK list at the same event that did very well.

Muskie wrote:Congrats!

I've played some of these missions at other Astros.

It is good to see someone with an old inferior codex win over the new ones with their shiny toys. Bit sad that you had two Lash Princes though, but seeing that last wolf army with twin eternal warrior lords is also saddening. Never read the wolf dex so I don't know the logic that justifies the Wolf Lords being quasi Immortal.

It is also surprising that the dread helped you win a game and the twin defilers do well. Defilers are big bullet magnets when I use them, though perhaps having twin Demon Princes draws fire away from them.

I'm on hiatus from playing and painting but when the new version of 40K and supposedly a new Chaos Codex comes out I'll be dusting off my old army and putting it back on the table. I may eventually get it working better under the new rules. I have more plans and ambitions then I have time and energy in 40K-land so I'm not making any big plans until I digest the new rules and finish off a few existing models and projects I already own.

Would have been nice to have some pictures... I'm sure someone posted pictures and they'll end up online somewhere.

Oh, I have no sympathy for the first IG player you played. He had four special characters, that seems excessive. Some missions are designed to be harder on some armies or tactics. With the plethora of flyers or at least floaters out there and Chaos having zero access to them, I don't really have any sympathy when they encounter a sandstorm and crash. ;-)

I was the player in the last game. The list did not have Twin Eternal Warrior lords, one had Saga of the Bear(basically Eternal Warrior) the other had no Saga. Running the same Saga is not allowed in the Space Wolf Codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spellbound wrote:
Princes attempt to lash the wolf lord unit [both of them are joined together, which I'm unsure they can do when they have wolves, but he insisted they were just wargear]. He saves against both with his talismans.

First, I'd like to congratulate you on the Best General award. You played a great game and were a gracious opponent. Secondly, the Wolf Lords can join together just like any other IC and can even join a squad together if they chose to. The wolves don't affect this because they are purchased as wargear and are not a unit themselves. They are removed from play if the lord is killed. I hope to see you at the next event in Dallas. Hopefully, we'll get paired up again.

Yeah around here it's played differently is all. I'll check the FAQ to see if it's addressed but up until our game, every wolf I've fought has run them unattached on account of the wolves. Didn't matter to me either way, I was fine with them running together. Pack hunters, and all

Spellbound wrote:Forgeworld was allowed at this event, as were VDR vehicles, pending judge approval.

My round 5 opponent had several forgeworld grot tanks, too.


As for Michael's list, it works because grey knights are so damn deadly on the drop. I mean a stormraven full of blood angels or terminators arrives, disembarks, and....well that's it, who cares. Shoot the guys that get out and then charge what's left. With grey knights the stormraven is deadly, what gets out is deadly, and even if you can shoot some of them down, well....good luck assaulting them. 10 purifiers with an inquisitor with grenades. That's a package of death right there.

The rest of the army is similar. A strike squad dropping pumps out a ton of shots - enough to easily wipe out most of a tac squad, and torrent of fire may well take the important weapons right out of it. They don't have to land within 12 or 6" to do their damage, either, like blood angels or combi-melta terminators. Nope, they'll land 24" away and park it - and now you're still doing the same 24" slog across open ground to get to someone that's better at shooting and better at close combat than you that you were doing before - only now they also land behind you so you have 24" to go either way. You've got the guy 24" away in front of you staying still and pumping out 8 shots [as much as an autocannon havoc squad, but with rending and S5 stormbolters] while behind you, another squad follows your travels and does the same with only 4 fewer rending autocannon shots. It's pretty ridiculous. GK are pretty ridiculous. No digs at michael for playing them, he has a theme and he sticks to it but the codex is inherently broken, so it's hard to make a terrible list. His capitalizes on the strengths of being incredibly offensive the turn each unit arrives, then keeping the pressure on and feinting where necessary so he can strike where you're weak. His tactics are sound, and with a codex like that those tactics can't lose.

I agree with everything you say except the idea that Michael's list can't be beaten. The last game i played against him we played to a draw and I've thought about his list a lot more and have some further ideas. First I think it's important to go second against him, if you go first he basically gets an extra turn to attack you. Next I think it's important to not deploy anything against him. By doing so his assasin who comes down turn 1 will not have anything to kill and will be left sitting there. I don't think there is much risk to getting shut out on the board edge because he doesn't really have the modles to make it impossible to come on. After that it becomes army specific but I think his list is pretty shallow on ways to kill av 13+ and with the exception of the dreadnight's teleporter and the stormraven he is not mobile.

Mad props for snapping necks and cashing checks with Chaos. Nice job snagging best general, also.

His army doesn't need to be mobile. A strike squad on either end of the board covers the entire board with two devastator squads (one of rending autocannons, one of heavy bolters) worth of shooting per squad. Then the purifiers add their firepower and get in to mix it up. There's not much the purifiers can't kill, except lash whip tyranid warriors with boneswords. Ugh. Even against paladins they should do very well, if they get the charge and grenades aren't present.

It's not unbeatable in actuality, there is no unbeatable list. What I meant by "can't be beat" is there's really no better setup than having a good codex and good tactics with smart choices. Sure if I hadn't had the extra round of CC forced on me by the Ambull, or he hadn't shot the battlecannon off the defiler when he did, it would have been a very different game but it's a tough nut to crack.

There'll be a new Chaos Codex someday (soon?) and then all the bandwagon jumpers will fight under the eight pointed star. We'll have to see if it as strong as the GK, SW, or BA. What sells well often gets better rules. I like Slaneesh but based on the models Forgeworld produces, Khorne and Nurgle seem to sell better...

Something I don't understand about your list.

The doomsiren units. What do they do? Drive around trying to flamer people?

Wouldn't you be better off sitting back and firing a blastmaster? with twin lash and twin battle cannons I think it would be more effective. The noise marines are such a fragile unit. Needing to get into flame template range to do anything with them seems like it would be very difficult.

That's exactly what they do. They would be fragile, except they are fearless and in a rhino. They don't have meltaguns, so they are often not a target until the middle turns, when they're already in range.

Also, a blastmaster can still miss even after you've carefully bunched up the enemy with lash. It's happened to me several times and is incredibly frustrating. Plus, blastmasters are SO EXPENSIVE. The unit runs 140 points and honestly does much less. And if I don't have lash available, either because the princes are dead or they are elsewhere or it missed, a doomsiren at close range is still an amazing flamer. A blastmaster can still be negated with cover saves if the enemy is sitting in a building. The doomsiren won't. I like ignoring ALL saves, if I can manage it.

And they come with a rhino. The more armor I have heading towards my enemy the better.

But yes I've tried the blastmaster unit. While I miss their anti-tank assistance, I find the combi-melta on the rhino to be good for that as well. Who knows though, I may consider a blastmaster unit for objective holding.

Oh man sounds like a load of fun spellbound, wish i could have gone, I love a tourney with some crazy rules. I've finally built up my eldar to 2000 we should see about playing up at Y2 sometime.