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Hi I've been painting up a CSM army since this time last year and have played in a few tournaments with them. I love them but they are really under performing, just finished a tournament this weekend just gone past and it wasn't pretty. Had loads of fun which is why I go but got truly ripped apart I just cant deal with all the artillery Guard armies or Land Raiders.

So getting to the point of this thread my last event was 1750 and there was a lot of AV 14 and artillery which I couldn't handle. In July this year I have a large 2500 event and I don't think Chaos has what it takes to do very well at all. So I'm looking for a small model count elite army that could do well against all comers in a tournament, any codex is viable.

So let me know if you have any ideas, the less models the better.

Cheers

Sad to say but it sounds like you want grey knights.

Grey Knights/Draigowing?

Sorry to say but Grey Knights probably fit your needs the best.

You could go Draigo + Paladins then 3 Ven Dreads with 2 TL ACs and 3 Dreadnights with teleporters. In your face, tough units.

A Loganwing might also work. You can go heavy on ICs in terminator armor. Wolfguard termies offer the nice advantage of combi-meltas so you can still do termicide - albeit with drop pods...

Deathwing would be something like 32 infantry, 3 speeders, 3 preds, 3 dreads.

Loganwing sounds interesting as I'm picking up Space Wolves at the moment for the tournament after the 2500 point one.

I'll have a look round and see what lists I can find.

Thanks for all the quick replys, I also have the GK codex as well so will see what I can work out.

All help is welcome

edit: Thanks MFletch was typing my reply so missed your post. Look like termies is the way forward.

GiraffeX wrote:Loganwing sounds interesting as I'm picking up Space Wolves at the moment for the tournament after the 2500 point one.
I'll have a look round and see what lists I can find.
Thanks for all the quick replys, I also have the GK codex as well so will see what I can work out.
All help is welcome
edit: Thanks MFletch was typing my reply so missed your post. Look like termies is the way forward.

Logan is of course the automatic must include for 275

I figure on 6 units of 5 wolfguard with combi-meltas & wolf claw plus 6 CSM so figure 1470 points in them. I am not saying everyone should be wolf-claw and combi-melta but if you figure about 10 points extra per wolfguard, you have options to upgrade some beyond your base line of a power weapon and stormbolter.

Njal or Runepriest in termie armor - I think you have to include one or the other or you are going to be subject to every psychic ability an enemy throws at you.

Lone wolf - These can be great for MC/dreadnought killers. You don't care if they die. Chainfist + stormshield with the ability to reroll hits versus MCs is awesome.

Venerable dreadnoughts - these could be quite useful I might even think about Bjorn + 2 or 3 venerable dreads.

LRC - transports - gets expensive but perhaps 1 IC + 7 wolfguard termies coming out of an LRC.

Wolf priest - intruging with a larger unit of terminators, grants them the ability to reroll to hits meaning all your wolf claws can reroll to wound rolls.

Multiple rune priests - JOTW, lightning and the snowstorm spell (sorry can't recall the name) where you pelt them with low strength attacks and then follow it up with dangerous or difficult terrain.

Landspeeders - the one problem with loganwing is lack of speed.

3 x Long fangs - this is cheap and gives you a great firebase. If we look at 3 of these + 30 termies you are looking at 2000 points and 27 missile shots!! IT ain't going to be fantastic against a deathwing or paladin heavy list but it will devastate anything else...

Logan + an AT longfang in a drop pod. I used this on occasion and it is good albeit often a throw away. This grants you super anti-tank due to Logan popping relentless on it. Can we say split firing MM on the drop?

Well I've come up with so far although I think there's going to be too many models still, sourcing that many missile launchers and multi meltas will be a nightmare.

The idea was to put the wolf lord with the grey hunters to ward off any sneak attacks against my long fangs. Logan goes down turn one with the multi melta squad. The second pod with the power armour combi melta squad also goes down turn 1, leaving the dread to drop when ever he feels like it.

I'll look at tightening this up with a Rune Priest in TDA.


Wolf Lord (Travels with Grey Hunters)
Runic Armour 
Fenrisian Wolves x2 
Power Weapon 
Melta bombs 
Belt of Russ 
Saga of the Warrior Born 

Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf  (Travels in Drop Pod with MM squad)

Dreadnought
Assault Cannon
Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod

5 wolfguard in TDA 
2x TH/SS, 1x LC, 1x TH/SS + CML 1x CM/CF 

5 wolfguard in TDA 
2x TH/SS, 1x LC, 1x TH/SS + CML 1x CM/CF 

5 wolfguard in TDA 
2x CM/ WC, 1xCM/SS, 1x CM/SS + CML, 1xCM/CF

5 wolfguard in TDA 
2x CM/ WC, 1xCM/SS, 1x CM/SS + CML, 1xCM/CF

5 Wolf Guard 
Combi Melta's x5 
Power Weapon x2 
Powerfist 
Drop Pod

Grey Hunters 5 man squad 

Long Fangs
5 x Multi-melta
Drop Pod

Long Fangs
5x Missile Launchers

Long Fangs
5x Missile Launchers

2500

Ouch! A lot of points in TH/SS terminators. I can see one maybe two per squad but three? At the space wolf costs, this is burning a lot of points that could be turned into bodies. (in terminator armor.

The 5 wolfguard with combi-meltas in the drop pod could easily be wolfguard termies with power weapons and combi-meltas.

5 greyhunters- please turn them into points and boost up your terminators or replace some stuff. 5-man is too small to do anything but plant the flag and again you could easily turn this into 3 or so more terminators.

Try it with Logan and the Wolf Lord but please also try it with a Rune Priest. Just the runic staff to mess with others psychic is worth its weight in gold not to mention the JOTW ruining the day for MCs everywhere.

A dreadnought is fine but any possibility to up it to a venerable or Bjprn? Just think about it or drop the grey hunters and a TH+SS or two and get a second dreadnought out there.

Cheers DAaddict your advice is excellent.

I've done some rearranging.

Wolf Lord 
TDA
Fenrisian Wolves x2 
Belt of Russ 
Saga of the Warrior Born 
Combi Melta
230

Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf  (Travels in Drop Pod with MM squad)
275

Rune Priest
TDA, Combi Melta
125

5 wolfguard in TDA 
2x TH/SS, 1x LC, 1x TH/SS + CML 1x CM/CF 
310

5 wolfguard in TDA 
2x TH/SS, 1x LC, 1x TH/SS + CML 1x CM/CF 
310

5 wolfguard in TDA 
2x CM/ WC, 1xCM/SS, 1x CM/SS + CML, 1xCM/CF
265

5 wolfguard in TDA 
2x CM/ WC, 1xCM/SS, 1x CM/SS + CML, 1xCM/CF
265

5 Wolf Guard in TDA
2x CM/PW, 1x CM/SS, 1x AC/PW, 1x CM/CF
245

5 Wolf Guard in TDA
2x CM/PW, 1x CM/SS, 1x AC/PW, 1x CM/CF
245

Long Fangs
5 x Multi-melta
Drop Pod
180

Long Fangs
5x Missile Launchers
140

Long Fangs
5x Missile Launchers
140

2740

Slightly over I was thinking of dropping the Long Fangs with launchers which would make it 2460. Then run the two SS heavy squads out front and the other wolf guard behind and wonder up the battlefield dropping Logan and his melta boys down in the drop pod on turn one to cause chaos in the back ranks.

Dropping all the launchers if its viable saves a lot of cash which is a very good thing.

Let me know what you think

How is gk better then sw for what hes describing to face. Sw can bring a lot more anti tank then gk can. Long fangs, cheap meltas, land speeders, scouts armed with powerfist, melta and melta grenades outflank, twc armed with fist/hammer, and more can handle anti tank or gunline.

Some more tweaks.

Dropped a unit of Long Fangs but added Arjac with Logan in the MM squad to really cause some pain.

Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf  (Travels in Drop Pod with MM squad)
275

Arjac Rockfist (Travels in Drop Pod with MM squad)
188

Rune Priest
TDA, Combi Melta
125

5 wolfguard in TDA 
1x TH/SS, 1x LC, 1x CM/SS + CML,  1x CM/CF, 1x WC/SS
285

5 wolfguard in TDA 
1x TH/SS, 1x LC, 1x CM/SS + CML,  1x CM/CF, 1x WC/SS
285

5 wolfguard in TDA 
2x CM/WC, 1xCM/SS, 1x CM/SS + CML, 1xCM/CF
265

5 wolfguard in TDA 
2x CM/WC, 1xCM/SS, 1x CM/SS + CML, 1xCM/CF
265

5 Wolf Guard in TDA
2x CM/PW, 1x CM/SS, 1x AC/PW, 1x CM/CF
245

5 Wolf Guard in TDA
2x CM/PW, 1x CM/SS, 1x AC/PW, 1x CM/CF
245

Long Fangs
5 x Multi-melta
Drop Pod
180

Long Fangs
5x Missile Launchers
140

Total 2498