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I've been hearing about these Kasrkin squads and I'm embarassed to say that I'm an IG player that knows nothing about them. I looked through my codex over and over many times and haven't found a speck of information concerning these units. Someone PLEASE enlighten me. Also, it would be great to know any rules, points values, and the over all effectiveness of the Kasrkins.

Basically they're Stormtrooper-equivalent troops raised specifically by and for Cadia.

They were basically an alternate model set created for the Eye of Terror campaign, in terms of rules they just used Stormtrooper rules, fluffwise they go through basically the same stuff Stormtroopers go through in terms of training and preparation, but are deployed only with Cadian regiments, primarily for defense of the Cadian Gate.

TL;DR they're Stormtroopers.

Stormtroopers from Cadia.

Ok, makes sense. Thanks a lot for clearing up what I thought were "mysterious/ powerful" guardsmen.

The Kasrkin are the Cadian elites. The name comes from Kasr, the Cadian word for a fortified town; Kasr-kin, the kindred of the Kasr. My guess is that they were originally the household troops of local rulers, like the huscarls of ancient and medieval Germanic tribes.

They're spearhead troops, provide guard details for high-ranking officers, and act as stormtroopers when necessary. In game terms, they use Stormtrooper rules.

I used to be kind of confused as well...the way some on these forums carry on you wouldn't think they were just stormtroopers from a specific planet.

Joey wrote:I used to be kind of confused as well...the way some on these forums carry on you wouldn't think they were just stormtroopers from a specific planet.

They read too much into a description from one novel.

Except they're not "just stormtroopers", if one looks at the fluff out there on them(Dan Abnett's "Malleus" and "First and Only", being the places where the Kasrkin first appeared) it's quite obvious that the Kasrkin are meant to be a whole different breed of troop than the Stormtroopers the Guard normally field.

In game terms? Certainly, they're "just stormtroopers from a specific planet". But as has been noted so many times, game terms != fluff terms.

Per the fluff, Kasrkin are some of the hardest fethers you'll see in the 40k universe short of the Astartes. When we first were introduced to them properly(as in "First and Only", they were just mentioned not described), we find out they have things like autosense links between their helmets and guns which tag friendlies and don't allow firing when a friendly is in the way. We also have one Kasrkin in particular who knifes a Daemonhost while he has his throat torn open.

I know I'm going to get accused of fanboyism for the Kasrkin, and you'd be right. Love me some Kasrkin--just wish they'd get actual rules, like the Krieg Grenadiers did and not be stuck using the Stormtroopers rules. Special Operations are not what the Kasrkin are deployed for. They're the spearhead of a Cadian Shock troop advance, the heavies rolling at the front and breaking down the door.

Stormtroopers fulfill pretty much the same battlefield role. the "Special Operations" schtick is just part of what they do. They very often are exactly what their name says they are, stormtroopers, elite units that force breaches in enemy lines to be exploited by slower heavier forces. They're pretty much a "swiss knife" heavy infantry unit. Nothing in any fluff differentiates the Kasrkin as being significantly superior to Stormtroopers in any way.


Abnett's fluff is also weird (exploding lasguns killing Dreadnaughts, a squad of guardsmen and a small village of swamp people killing a squad of Chaos Space Marines, Space Marine tac squads killing thousands of dark eldar Warriors with nary a loss in urban combat, etc), but I doubt if he'd featured actual Stormtroopers as opposed to Kasrkin that they'd have been written any differently.

It's not like the Krieg Grenadiers get much either, just the universal Death Korps rules that every infantry unit in the list gets, that and they can't take plasma guns for some reason.

Vaktathi wrote:Stormtroopers fulfill pretty much the same battlefield role. the "Special Operations" schtick is just part of what they do. They very often are exactly what their name says they are, stormtroopers, elite units that force breaches in enemy lines to be exploited by slower heavier forces. They're pretty much a "swiss knife" heavy infantry unit. Nothing in any fluff differentiates the Kasrkin as being significantly superior to Stormtroopers in any way.

Except for every single piece of fluff on Stormtroopers, right?

Stormtroopers, in the fluff where they've been portrayed, have been more about the "Special Operations schtick". There's a reason they're referred to as "Glory Boys" or "Toy Soldiers" by the rest of the Guard, and held a bit in contempt. They're not Guardsmen, not really. They are raised from the Schola Progenium, and do not serve alongside the Guardsmen proper in the trenches.

The Kasrkin on the other hand, are looked at with a bit of awe by the rest of the Cadian Shock Troops. The Kasrkin start exactly where the rest of the Shock Troops do, in the Whiteshields. They get brought in from there. They can also be selected from the ranks of the adult Shock Troops, but that seems to be a bit more rare.
TL;DR--one is looked at with a kind of interservice rivalry while the other is looked at as being "what I want to be when I grow up".

Abnett's fluff is also weird (exploding lasguns killing Dreadnaughts, a squad of guardsmen and a small village of swamp people killing a squad of Chaos Space Marines, Space Marine tac squads killing thousands of dark eldar Warriors with nary a loss in urban combat, etc), but I doubt if he'd featured actual Stormtroopers as opposed to Kasrkin that they'd have been written any differently.

He has featured "actual Stormtroopers"(most notably in "Blood Pact", where they served as headquarters security for the Commissariat), and they were written fairly different compared to the Kasrkin he featured in Malleus and Hereticus.

By the by:
The "exploding lasguns killing Dreadnoughts" was one instance. The explosion did not kill the Dreadnought. The meter long spikes from indigenous plantlife which got through the breach the explosion made in the sarcophagus(which had already been weakened as the Dreadnought had fought Astartes, who blinded it) skewered the occupant.
The "squad of Guardsmen and a small village of swamp people killing a squad of Chaos Space Marines" also isn't that weird. Several of them were killed by Gaunt and his powersword, from ambush. One was killed by having an entire satchel full of AT explosives dropped onto him. Another was killed by Larkin's long-las, which needed repeated shots to do the trick. The "leader" was killed by having his head pierced by a friggin' huge amount of quarrels from dozens of "swamp people" firing magnetically accelerated crossbows.

I'm not sure what makes people consider these instances "weird", when we have normal 40k fluff from Phil Kelly in the Studio of a Space Wolf riding a Wolf, after he'd been raised by a wolf. Or Phil Kelly giving us an Ork destroying a Titan by crashing a motorcycle into it.

The Dark Eldar one I can't comment on though, as it's likely from Iron Snakes which I didn't have any interest in reading.

It's not like the Krieg Grenadiers get much either, just the universal Death Korps rules that every infantry unit in the list gets, that and they can't take plasma guns for some reason.

And their own unique transports, in-depth fluff about how they serve, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:
Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying the Kasrkin are "superior" to the Stormtroopers.

I'm simply saying that calling them "just Stormtroopers" is wrong, if we go by the fluff. They do not perform the same function, they are not incorporated the same way in orders of battle, etc.

Stormtroopers are fielded piecemeal as operational support detachments to a Guard regiment.
Kasrkin are fielded, for the most part, in the same way.
However it's not uncommon for a Cadian force to be able to entire Regiments of Kasrkin.

@The Dark Eldar Comment...
He has a point...
There are like 7 squads deploayed. 6 of them are the main attack who are lured into the occupied city and 1 is used to catch anyone retreating. All the Dark Eldar bar a token force retreat so basically 1 squad is left under attack by a massive amount of DE (Reportedly many hundreds) who are then more or less completly slaightered and the marines suffer no losses though they do take some casualties.

Kasrkin I've found to be, at least in the fluff, the baddest of the badass.

In Cadian Blood the Kasrkin are assault troops. They fast rope into this building that some Vet's and Chaos are fighting in...and well, read the book. It's awesome.

In Gunheads, they don't play a massive roll but the times they DO appear they're in a league all their own.

Stormtroopers, at least in the novels I've read where they have a roll other than to just stand near a door and look scary, they appear to be just well-trained Guardsmen. In the case of some of the Inquisition ST's they're hard-as-nails bodyguards that are trained and surgically modified to fight the corrupt.

In Helsreach most of the Steel Legion that Grimaldus interacts with are considered 'storm troopers' because of the carapace armor and hellguns they use. But, they're frontline troops, just better equipped.

Now I finally understand that yes, they are different from other infantry fluff wise, but are = to Storm Troopers in the game. This buttload of info was a wonderful help. Thanks to all who posted for giving me an understanding of the Kasrkins.

Kanluwen wrote:Except they're not "just stormtroopers", if one looks at the fluff out there on them(Dan Abnett's "Malleus" and "First and Only", being the places where the Kasrkin first appeared) it's quite obvious that the Kasrkin are meant to be a whole different breed of troop than the Stormtroopers the Guard normally field.

You mean a book about a part of the fluff says that those particular guys are more badass than all the others? Can you imagine a book about Imperial Guard where every single charector died at the end of every chapter? No, neither can I.
Every world is going to have their own stormtroopers that are so much more badass than all the others.
The universe is a big place...there's enough room for plenty of badasses.

Joey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except they're not "just stormtroopers", if one looks at the fluff out there on them(Dan Abnett's "Malleus" and "First and Only", being the places where the Kasrkin first appeared) it's quite obvious that the Kasrkin are meant to be a whole different breed of troop than the Stormtroopers the Guard normally field.

You mean a book about a part of the fluff says that those particular guys are more badass than all the others?

"Malleus", the first place where the Kasrkin are introduced, is about the Inquisition. It's not about "those particular guys". Prior to the action sequence of the novel where we see the Kasrkin earning their reputation, one of Eisenhorn's companions(a hardcase ex-bounty hunter from a Death World) notes that one of the Inquisitor-General's bodyguards has a brand on his neck which is associated with the Kasrkin.

"First and Only" mentions Kasrkin only in passing when Gaunt presents an officer with a question of "What would you do?" if he had a whole legion of the finest troops in the galaxy. A "phalanx of Kasrkin" is mentioned.

Can you imagine a book about Imperial Guard where every single charector died at the end of every chapter? No, neither can I.

Yes, actually. It might not happen in every single book, but the Gaunt's Ghosts novels have had their fair share of characters being killed.

Every world is going to have their own stormtroopers that are so much more badass than all the others.

Every world isn't referred to as "The Cadian Gate" and subject to constant intrusions of Chaos forces.

The universe is a big place...there's enough room for plenty of badasses.

Sure the universe is a big place. But that doesn't mean every single thing will have an equal, now does it?

Stormtroopers, while highly trained and highly motivated, are not the same thing as the Kasrkin of Cadia in the fluff.

Kanluwen wrote:

Joey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except they're not "just stormtroopers", if one looks at the fluff out there on them(Dan Abnett's "Malleus" and "First and Only", being the places where the Kasrkin first appeared) it's quite obvious that the Kasrkin are meant to be a whole different breed of troop than the Stormtroopers the Guard normally field.

You mean a book about a part of the fluff says that those particular guys are more badass than all the others?

"Malleus", the first place where the Kasrkin are introduced, is about the Inquisition. It's not about "those particular guys". Prior to the action sequence of the novel where we see the Kasrkin earning their reputation, one of Eisenhorn's companions(a hardcase ex-bounty hunter from a Death World) notes that one of the Inquisitor-General's bodyguards has a brand on his neck which is associated with the Kasrkin.

"First and Only" mentions Kasrkin only in passing when Gaunt presents an officer with a question of "What would you do?" if he had a whole legion of the finest troops in the galaxy. A "phalanx of Kasrkin" is mentioned.

Can you imagine a book about Imperial Guard where every single charector died at the end of every chapter? No, neither can I.

Yes, actually. It might not happen in every single book, but the Gaunt's Ghosts novels have had their fair share of characters being killed.

Remember when Caffran, Bragg, Corbec, Gaunt, Meryn and Milo were in a fox hole that a shell landed in?
No, me neither.
For the record, Rawne would have taken command of the First and Only and run a smuggling ring, eventually culminating in his trial and execution 14 years later.

Kanluwen wrote:
Every world is going to have their own stormtroopers that are so much more badass than all the others.

Every world isn't referred to as "The Cadian Gate" and subject to constant intrusions of Chaos forces.

Joey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Joey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except they're not "just stormtroopers", if one looks at the fluff out there on them(Dan Abnett's "Malleus" and "First and Only", being the places where the Kasrkin first appeared) it's quite obvious that the Kasrkin are meant to be a whole different breed of troop than the Stormtroopers the Guard normally field.

You mean a book about a part of the fluff says that those particular guys are more badass than all the others?

"Malleus", the first place where the Kasrkin are introduced, is about the Inquisition. It's not about "those particular guys". Prior to the action sequence of the novel where we see the Kasrkin earning their reputation, one of Eisenhorn's companions(a hardcase ex-bounty hunter from a Death World) notes that one of the Inquisitor-General's bodyguards has a brand on his neck which is associated with the Kasrkin.

"First and Only" mentions Kasrkin only in passing when Gaunt presents an officer with a question of "What would you do?" if he had a whole legion of the finest troops in the galaxy. A "phalanx of Kasrkin" is mentioned.

Can you imagine a book about Imperial Guard where every single charector died at the end of every chapter? No, neither can I.

Yes, actually. It might not happen in every single book, but the Gaunt's Ghosts novels have had their fair share of characters being killed.

Remember when Caffran, Bragg, Corbec, Gaunt, Meryn and Milo were in a fox hole that a shell landed in?
No, me neither.
For the record, Rawne would have taken command of the First and Only and run a smuggling ring, eventually culminating in his trial and execution 14 years later.

Remember "Guns of Tanith"? "Sabbat Martyr"? How about "His Last Command" or "Armour of Contempt"?
Major characters all died in those books.

Heck, "His Last Command" introduced a brand new character for the Tanith and killed him off by the end of the book.

Joey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Joey wrote:
Every world is going to have their own stormtroopers that are so much more badass than all the others.

Every world isn't referred to as "The Cadian Gate" and subject to constant intrusions of Chaos forces.

IN THE GRIMDARK etc.
If you're trained for war from birth, you're trained for war from birth. There's a limit to how much training someone can have, hence why Afghan peasants can kill Royal Marines.

What are you actually trying to say here? That "training doesn't really matter, because Afghan peasants can kill Royal Marines"?
If you're bringing a real world comparison in, it's important to remember that most casualties in Afghanistan aren't from actual firefights or exchanges of gunfire between two sides. They're from things like improvised explosive devices detonated remotely or soldiers being shot from ambush.

Now, with that out of the way:
Kasrkin are recruited from the "best and brightest" of the Cadian Whiteshields. Usually those noted for fighting despite wounds which should have put a Shock Trooper down, much less a teenaged soldier. They then are shifted to a training regimen which includes them into the standard Shock Trooper regimen.

Stormtroopers are trained to a comparable standard, certainly, but they seemingly do not have the experience base to build upon before the training.

Kanluwen wrote:

Joey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Joey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except they're not "just stormtroopers", if one looks at the fluff out there on them(Dan Abnett's "Malleus" and "First and Only", being the places where the Kasrkin first appeared) it's quite obvious that the Kasrkin are meant to be a whole different breed of troop than the Stormtroopers the Guard normally field.

You mean a book about a part of the fluff says that those particular guys are more badass than all the others?

"Malleus", the first place where the Kasrkin are introduced, is about the Inquisition. It's not about "those particular guys". Prior to the action sequence of the novel where we see the Kasrkin earning their reputation, one of Eisenhorn's companions(a hardcase ex-bounty hunter from a Death World) notes that one of the Inquisitor-General's bodyguards has a brand on his neck which is associated with the Kasrkin.

"First and Only" mentions Kasrkin only in passing when Gaunt presents an officer with a question of "What would you do?" if he had a whole legion of the finest troops in the galaxy. A "phalanx of Kasrkin" is mentioned.

Can you imagine a book about Imperial Guard where every single charector died at the end of every chapter? No, neither can I.

Yes, actually. It might not happen in every single book, but the Gaunt's Ghosts novels have had their fair share of characters being killed.

Remember when Caffran, Bragg, Corbec, Gaunt, Meryn and Milo were in a fox hole that a shell landed in?
No, me neither.
For the record, Rawne would have taken command of the First and Only and run a smuggling ring, eventually culminating in his trial and execution 14 years later.

Remember "Guns of Tanith"? "Sabbat Martyr"? How about "His Last Command" or "Armour of Contempt"?
Major characters all died in those books.

Yeah, they died like characters in an action film. Those guys don't die fast.

Kanluwen wrote:
What are you actually trying to say here? That "training doesn't really matter, because Afghan peasants can kill Royal Marines"?
If you're bringing a real world comparison in, it's important to remember that most casualties in Afghanistan aren't from actual firefights or exchanges of gunfire between two sides. They're from things like improvised explosive devices detonated remotely or soldiers being shot from ambush.

Now, with that out of the way:
Kasrkin are recruited from the "best and brightest" of the Cadian Whiteshields. Usually those noted for fighting despite wounds which should have put a Shock Trooper down, much less a teenaged soldier. They then are shifted to a training regimen which includes them into the standard Shock Trooper regimen.

Stormtroopers are trained to a comparable standard, certainly, but they seemingly do not have the experience base to build upon before the training.

Congratulations, you have just described the kaskrins. Now show us the part in the fluff where it says they pawn other worlds' stormtroopers. They're already the best of the best of the best of the best. Are you suggesting that kaskrin are the best of the best of the best of the best of the best? Out of interest, how many multiples of best are Space Marines? Stormtroopers get given extensive training because it would be inpractical and expensive to give that training/equipment to rank and file soldiers. So do kaskrin but they're from Cadia and therefore beloved by the Gods, apparently.