Shadowmyth515 wrote:to give em a ranking... they are over priced for like a 70% effective model. where as trygons are like a 90% model and slightly more than a carnifex, even in broods ... more so in broods actually your looking at huge point sink into average models. if you want a firing team thats fine, use models that are better for it, if you want a melee team, again use melee models. they are a hybrid and custom troop, but they are SOOO pricey for what your looking for. and when you pick their role, they are basically stuck in that where as trygon prime is amazing shotgun and amazing stabby, with awesome rules hes dual role, more wounds and has fleet and deep strike plus unless he falls off the table edge, when he deep strikes he cant be messed with.

Im not saying a herd of carnifexes with big guns isnt scary, but they are easy to tar pit and lock down, they dont have any great rules and their melee is shotty at best unless you make them a melee unit, in which their shooting suffers.

They arent useless, and for certain roles i assume they would work very very well, but those would be limited and rare and even then they have better options.

want shooty? take a t fex with fleshborer hive, cluster spines and thorax swarm.... 20 shots, then a large blast template, then a flamer template... and all 3 can be fired in one turn? amazing. oh and then he can assault (hes a carnifex for assault stats) so not amazing but.... can still open raiders. more wounds and a better save than a carnifex and 2 carnifexes are better than tfex yeah.. but also WAY more expensive. and even then i might put the money on a tfex to be honest.

want a long range can opener able to drop a raider or monolith? again t fex. but with a rupture cannon. str 10 ap 4 range 48". he has an 11% chane to drop a raider or av 14 anyways, doesnt seem like a lot but for the nid dex its the only weapon that stands a chance to do so and it has the range. AND he still has crowd damage with a choice of a 4 shot shotgun or a large template str 5 and the choice of 3 flamer templates one hurts anythign with a toughness value on a 2+ regardless. AND can then still assault.

Shadowmyth515 wrote:DOOM is amazing. He rarely lasts more than a turn or 2 if they have a lascannon or something str 8 in range but what hje can do in 1 turn is amazing. Useless without a drop pod. AMAZING vs armies with low leadership like Imp Guard with their average 7 or 8. Drop pod him near open troops and watch the devistation unfold, try to drop him near more than 1 troop at 6" away or less.. like ... Imp guard rofl and he rolls bodies, can score mass wounds and then fire a str 10 ap 1 large blast same turn. He is probably one of the most OP units in the dex. He does have a weakness though anything str 8 can vape him if his 3+ invul fails

also if the situation works right.. like say with death leaper and a broodlord all in range you can reduce a leadership by up to 4 and pop him in the fray and get 4 more kills. whats nice is "NO save of any kind may be taken" heroes and elites can fall rather fast to him.

Also carnifexes not USELESS and do have a purpose in some LARGE scale games i suppose but i mean in reality there are just plain better choices.

Shadowmyth515 wrote:honestly his LD is high enough and he will not last long as if anyone sees his destructive power he will be destroyed and not much you can do, remember first turn drop pod you wont need instinctive behavior testing so first turn he drops hes fine anyways, also always drop him near a squad and try to get him at least close enough for him to drop cataclysm near another one, preferably one not close as he can vape himself. I dont have my dex on me but if im not mistaken it reads "No saves of any kind may be taken" or something like that, that includes invuls and cover saves.

honestly though i wouldnt worry about instinctive behavior.. as if he lasts a turn or 2 longer than expected he will probably pass it. If your stressed about it though deep strike a trygon prime or warrior brood in a spod or zoans in a spod near enough. just be careful, on his first turn he can become a str 10 wounds 10 who drops a very strong ap1 template, all templates can move and sometimes an angel will piss in your barrel and your gun will "misfire" onto something you own, for 130 points with a spod, hes best to drop, pop and forget. IF he lasts longer good, but hes for target smashing. sometimes he will not get his target, thats the nature of the game, but in general hes meant as an assassin who doesnt last long, if your up against something without stre 8 or he can be placed far enough away from str 8 that it wont bother him good, but if you can pop him next to a squad of marines, at the start of the shooting phase make them roll 3d6 and they roll a 14+ they will lose 6 wounds, he will be str 10 then turn your str 10 gun on another nearby squad or a vehicle ...... he more than soaks up his points or at least causes a big enough annoyance to aid in your other plan, dont build a list around DOOM build a list that his assassin and distraction abilities can enhance. Anyone who knows anything about doom, will try and take him out with anything in the area ASAP and will not focus as much fire on other targets you may want alive.

aslo remember he is a zoan, not a monstrous creature, to give him cover is easy, his spod acts as LOS cover keep him on the opposite side of the spod in regards to a lascannon team or something silly and he might last longer than expected.

Shadowmyth515 wrote:Ive only used my mines 1 time and it caused me to DECIMATE my opponent but it was because of the game type deployment, they actually scored 0 wounds, it was because (pardon i forgot the deployment type) in the mission we played you cant deploy within 18 inches of an enemy model. lol. so I flanked his feild with them and he had to come in on one small area for his first turn making it almost useless and my team caught up and closed the distance on my first turn. so i mean it was just a bad game deployment on his part.

MOST armies these days run with an armored fist list... usually ZERO models other than tanks and transports. Armies that it would be good to use them on is anything non iron fist. if your regular opponents dont field alot of armor.. toss mines out everywhere on his board

for the other spores i believe those are strictly APOC games as they would be far too OP

spores are useless to vehicles but great vs troops (anythign with a 3+ armor saves can usually shrug off the wounds but imp guard tau and orks for instance... what they wound they kill outright and for a 10 point model to kill 4 or so other models right off the bat can be rather.... pleasing) for a fast attack slot they are viable ONLY if you can spread enough of them over a distance and hit footslogging troops, aside from that at 10 pts per model they are price heavy one way to solve this is biovores. In a 5 turn game they fire 5 of them and you can aim towards troops rather than guessing and attempting to bottleneck (which if used well is good) the downside to them is they take a heavy slot. max a troop they are cheap and you can fire 3 blasts a turn... i dont give em a high enough ranking. Want power and some mines? throw in a Harpy. I want to try it out but the twin stanglecannons (id never take venom cannons) are extremely OP and sometime when they fly over a unit they drop a - str 4 ap4 large blast barrage d3 - on the unit so you can aim it better that way and have a twin linked large blast thats stronger. its all on your game type.

You will find a list type build that works best for you, just doom analyze everything run scenarios, and dont be afraid to proxy if you have friends that play, for one game call a carnifex a tyranofex or whatever to see how you like them.

Personally im a numbers freak i number up everything run em and see effectiveness to different armies and different ranges im a heavy blast template type of guy, i love watching an entire squad get smashed from 1 shot, but in order to do so you need to first open transports or have distance. My regular and currently only opponent has 3 armies, all of which he has learned to not footslog against me or its OVER in the first 2 turns. one of my list carries something like 9 stranglecannons and 2 3 cluster spines (a slightly weaker variation) its only about 1500 points and has a range on all themplates the shortest being 18 and the stranglecannons being 36.

I run no stealers, small regular troop numberswith bad ass upgrades like termagaunts with devourers (only reason its amazing is 3 shots at 18 range... for double the price of a regular model with a weaker gun at 12" range so point for point id take 3 better shots in place of 2 weaker shots any day (just be cautious as less models makes your troops easy to wipe)) but alot of monstrous, generally I win, moreso when up against spacewolves, less when against dark eldar, and even with imp guard. With any tyranid build your weakness is lots of vehicles... not alot of weapons easily do it.

So many viable builds, some people say a ton of hive guard , cheap tough troops with the ability to drop most light armor vehicles, but no chance to drop a raider so if you spit ball a 1500 point list and you dont put in alot of HARD hitting attackers and your friend jus tpulls a fast one and puts in a landraider with flamers our the ass or for instance IMP guard with their squardrens of av 14 frontside vehicles.. you will have a rough time and probably lose. I pick one thing, build a list around it and then with extra points put in an "oh gak" im glad i brought this troop to the field

If you wanna go armor punchy list... be sure to bring at least some anti infantry to or your list is useless vs footsloggers
if you want anti infantry... put in some tank busting or if you play and armored fist who never has to get out of vehicles.... your screwed
if you want melee, use shooty as a screen so you actually get better melee in without as many casualties

in short.. whatever type of list you build, always cover your weaknesses with SOMETHING even if its just a few things. because you never know you might find yourself up against someone who makes lists like i do, like i said my 1250 point list fields two tyranofexes 1 trygon prime and 1 tyrant only 28 troops in 2 broods. you wont see lists like that as peopel say its too risky (its too risky to bring 1 MC to a small list... no one said its risky to bring 4 lol) it forces my opponent to bring big guns and rage to the field, where as I can then large template blast the small troops hes forced to field. It has armor punching, heaviest of the tyranid armors and large blast and strong weapons, its weakness are small troops choices... in objective games march my MCs up fight for a point if i win it run my troops up, cap it, use my remaining big bugs to go out killing and contesting points.