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Hey, I have an idea about an all wolf list, just for fun.

Wolf Lord - Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf claw, Storm shield, artificer armour, Saga of the warrior born, Wolf tooth necklace, Fenrisian wold, meltabombs
Canis Wolfborn

15 Fenrisian wolves - cyberwolf
15 Fenrisian wolves - cyberwolf
8 Fenrisian wolf - Cyberwolf
8 Fenrisian wolf - Cyberwolf

Thunder wolves
TH, SS
SS
SS, MB
MB
BP, CCW


Thunder wolves
TH, SS
SS
SS, MB
MB
BP, CCW


Thunder wolves
TH, SS
SS
SS, MB
MB
BP, CCW

C&C?

Go for it, sounds fun, no long range shooting though and poor armor on the Wolves means you need to be careful.

You're over gearing your squads a bit. Also, you have no scoring units.

If I was going to do this, I'd go with the two lords, 1 to 3 iron priests with wolves and cyber wolves and probably just 4 man TWC squads (SS, SS/PF, MB, BP/CCW).

It's fun and all, but the lack of ranged anti-tank and scoring is going to make it a very rock/paper/sisters list.

pretre wrote:You're over gearing your squads a bit. Also, you have no scoring units.

If I was going to do this, I'd go with the two lords, 1 to 3 iron priests with wolves and cyber wolves and probably just 4 man TWC squads (SS, SS/PF, MB, BP/CCW).

It's fun and all, but the lack of ranged anti-tank and scoring is going to make it a very rock/paper/sisters list.

Never take the iron priests, they don't gel well with the rest of the army, sure they can survive really well to get to cc but they are 1 man with a thunderhammer and no ++ save, if you are going to have a unit strike last, make sure they can survive to strike. Having lots of ablative wolves on an IC/character is something I tried for a while it doesn't work very well, you take a wound & kill a wolf and then have to make a leadership check. While this sounds like nothing I have had to fall back a wolf lord due to loosing a wolf the full 18", to hell with that. When you are in CC they are 2+ wounds that you have lost in cc and what good are they really.
In summary, don't take Iron priests just have a thunderhammer in your Thunderwolf squads.

The list looks like it would be fun but I have a few things I would change. Canis is not all that tbh, I would think about putting in a second wolf lord or wgbl instead and give him a thunder hammer, storm sheild and saga of the beast slayer for all those pesky dreads, Kans, and monsterous creatures you may have to deal with. Canis can kill troops and fast but he dies just as quick when singled out in cc by the sergent with a power weapon/fist due to a lack of a ++ save. If you fight low initiative enemies keep him and he'll pay off some of the time but I just got the model and magnetised me a wolf lord with options. Also take a wolf tail talisman on each of your wolf lords/hq options. The lord you have is a daemon in cc but he can still be instant killed by a psycic weapon so be weary of that and take a tail to give you another level of protection.

If you want to be more flexible in the army, maybe drop a TWC squad and put in 2 squads of GH with plasma guns to sit on objectives or huddle in terrain for the game to split your opponents attention. All said and done, even 30 boys with a nob won't be happy to see 15 wovles and a Thunderwolf lord and squad hit them in the same turn of cc.

liturgies of blood wrote:In summary, don't take Iron priests just have a thunderhammer in your Thunderwolf squads.

Except the IP give the army more units that can hurt more targets. Right now he has very few. A 2+ save with ablative wounds and cyberwolves really isn't that bad. Not to mention he can't be singled out.

If you want to be more flexible in the army, maybe drop a TWC squad and put in 2 squads of GH with plasma guns to sit on objectives or huddle in terrain for the game to split your opponents attention. All said and done, even 30 boys with a nob won't be happy to see 15 wovles and a Thunderwolf lord and squad hit them in the same turn of cc.

You're missing the point. He wants an All Wolf List. Canis is there so he can have wolf troops.

A theme list eh? It has some pitfalls but could be fun to play. I think your list is 2020 points though. The two things to keep in mind were said above but I'll restate them here:

1) No scoring units, so tabling your opponent is the only way to win objective based games. You can easily not-lose however.

2) Canis Wolfborn is lame, the only reason to take him is to take Fenrisian Wolves as troops.

liturgies of blood wrote:Never take the iron priests, they don't gel well with the rest of the army

Wrong, they can take Thunderwolves and be accompanied by Cyberwolves. So they fit perfectly with his theme.


There are a lot of ways you can go. If you throw Wound Allocation out the window you can take 3 full units of Thunderwolves for between 750 and 1000 points. I wouldn't do this however. What might fit the theme better is a few strong riders.

At least one Iron Priest with Thunderwolf, Wolf Tooth Necklace, and 4 Cyberwolves would be a good investment. Probably will want 2 of these. They run 165 points each.

Obviously will need Fenrisian Wolves. 120 points for 15 isn't too bad. I wouldn't bother with the Cyberwolf. Throwing your HQs into these packs would probably be good. I wouldn't bother with Fenrisian Wolves on your HQs unless you max out your troop choices. I'd probably only take 4 units though, more if playing 2000 points.

Thunderwolf Cavalry is useful. You already will have a few guys on Thunderwolves, but throwing a pack or two of these guys wouldn't hurt. I wouldn't bother maxing them out unless you have the points though, or unless you ignore wound allocation. I would give them Storm Shields and a Wolf Claw in each. A unit of 3 with 2 storm shields and wolf claw hits 230 points. It has a large foot print and a healthy amount of attacks. I doubt you need more than this in each unit.

An argument could be made for Plasma Pistols but I think you'll be Fleeting too much.

Your HQs have to include Canis, and at least one Wolf Lord. Two more HQs in the form of WGBLs wouldn't be bad either, but you start running out of points. I would want one for each unit of Fenrisian Wolves though.


So maybe something like this:
240 - Wolf Lord w/ Thunderwolf Mount, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Wolf Tail talisman, Saga of the Bear
185 - Canis Wolfborn
200 - WGBL w/ Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Saga of the Warrior Born
180 - WGBL w/ Thunderwolf Mount, Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Saga of the Beastslayer
165 - Iron Priest w/ Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Tooth Necklace, 4 Cyberwolves
165 - Iron Priest w/ Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Tooth Necklace, 4 Cyberwolves
120 - x15 Fenrisian Wolves
120 - x15 Fenrisian Wolves
120 - x15 Fenrisian Wolves
120 - x15 Fenrisian Wolves
230 - x3 Thunderwolf Cavalry (1 w/ Storm Shield, 1 w/ Storm Shield and Wolf Claw)

Total 1850

Its a bit under 2000 points but i didnt actually add yours up until after I was done so all well. Anyways, there are 3 components of this army in the way I envisioned it. The Wolf Lord and Canis Wolf Born each lead a pack of 15 Fenrisian Wolves and move with one of the Iron Priests in one Wing. The two WGBL and another Iron Priest move in another with the other 2 Fenrisian Wolf Packs. The Thunderwolf Cavalry move where you need and hit hard.

Canis and one WGBL are excellent at anti-horde. Its what they excel at. Canis by being Canis, and the WGBL with his WS of 5 and re-rolls to hit (thank you Wolf Claw). Means he's likely hitting on 3's, hitting an awful lot, and then getting to wound on 3's. No saves allowed coupled with Saga of the Warrior Born? His tally will be quite large by end of game. 3++ and T5 should keep him safe from most things.

The Wolf Lord and other WGBL go for harder targets, as do the Iron Priests. That's 3 S10 Thunder Hammers and a S6 Frost Blade. Without Eternal Warrior there is no reason to give the WGBL an Initiative 1 attack. S6 is useful enough, though I wouldn't want to charge a Dreadnought with him still. Leave that to the Iron Priests who have 4 ablative wounds before they can be hit (they aren't ICs).

Of course you could always drop the HQs down to bare minimums and take more Cavalry.


If you want an army that will perform well on the table in most games, you want something else. If you just want to play with some Wolves then have fun with it!

pretre wrote:
Except the IP give the army more units that can hurt more targets. Right now he has very few. A 2+ save with ablative wounds and cyberwolves really isn't that bad. Not to mention he can't be singled out.

Yes but you can take the cyber wolves out quite easily and that risks the leadership check, hell a good round of shooting can knock that unit a foot across the board. You ignored my point about having to take leaderships tests for shooting wounds entirely, on Ld8 you will pass on average but only just, loosing 2 wolves will force a check and 1 wolf every turn there after. The wolf lord doesn't have the same problem with his ld10 plus it would take a bit more work to get 25% of the fenrisian wolves.

The IP will get into close combat, eventually, of that I am positive but unless you have the 5 wolves there when you hit you are not going to be doing much good with him. Against mounted lists you may be able to justify it but the IP doesn't have the staying power to survive tangling with the contents of the transpotrs. A 165 points unit with 5 wounds is not a great sell to me when 4 of the models have a 4+ save and it only has leadership 8. For 30 points more you can have a wgbl that can hit harder and was a 2+/3++.

You're missing the point. He wants an All Wolf List. Canis is there so he can have wolf troops.

No, I get his list and as it stands that list will work fine for what he wants it to do. I just suggest that if he wants to use it more then just a fun list he needs some troops that can take objectives. Feel free to argue with that but an army is a fluid thing.

@Cowmonaut
I am not sold on the use of a thunderhammer on a wolf lord, the wolf lord and wgbl are the only models that have I5 in the army it's a shame to waste that, one of them should have a thunderhammer I grant you but since the wolf lord has more attacks and you will need a second to complement canis, I think the wolf lord should have a wolf claw.
Looking at the math hammer, a thunderhammer is as effective from T2 all the way up to T8 giving you 3.33 wounds, the wolf claw outstrips the frost blade every time bar T7 and beats the hammer for T4 and T3. Now it appears you should only re-roll to hit for T3 and for T4 it's a wash but for everything else re-roll to wound.
Hitting first is a damn site better when it comes to weathering the storm of blows coming back at you.

Looking at your list I would give the two WGBL hammers and use canis and the lord to flitter troops while the other two can bring down monsters and the like if weight of numbers hasn't done it yet. That is if you stick canis and the wolf lord on a squad of wolves with a hammer each and use the 2 other troops to screen the army.
An Iron priest can do some damage to a monsterous creature no doubt but so could a squad of 2 thunder wovles with a thunderhammer and stormsheild and when it comes to getting accross the table to do some damage I am not sure my money isn't on the TWC.
What I mean by don't gel with the army is that while they fit the fluff the IP can't join the big wolf squads to drive up their survival and to get use of the wolf lords Ld stat. They have 1 wound and that takes them down a lot in my esteem, I think the points are better spent on TWC.

Hammers are next to useless on Independent Characters that don't have Eternal Warrior in my opinion. Its just too easy to suffer Instant Death, either from the S8+ MC you are in close combat with or some other special rule (Blissgiver, Force Weapons, etc). Then your rather expensive HQ doesn't get any attacks.

The only Space Wolf IC that should take a Thunder Hammer is a Wolf Lord with Saga of the Bear. With 3 Wounds and Eternal Warrior (and a 3++ or 4++ save) he can actually survive to use it against certain enemies. The WGBL is just too fragile for it from my experience. One fumble is all it takes and he's splatted. Plus he's more durable than the Iron Priests.

I do think a Wolf Lord with Saga of the Majesty would be important though, your Leadership 10 or 9 at best on a lot of your units. Being able to re-roll your leadership test will be invaluable given the number of Fenrisian Wolves.

Wolf Claws are the best weapon you can take on any model on a Thunderwolf. I have a thing for Frost Blades (love that S6) but the re-rolls to hit are very, very valuable.

The Iron Priests don't want to join the other squads. In fact, its better they don't. You already have fewer units on the table than you usually would. You need some target saturation. Plus the enemy then has a tough call. Hit the Iron Priests or your Thunderwolf Cavalry. All of them should have 4++ cover saves from the Fenrisian Wolf packs.

And you start to get some diminishing returns with more Thunderwolves. 3-4 models on Thunderwolves can wreck just about anything. Your units don't need to be bigger than that really. You don't gain much from adding more Thunderwolves, especially since it increases the cost for wound allocation as well.

The 1 wound doesn't matter since they aren't ICs. In close combat you have to attack their whole unit. With 5 models you can have a lot of fun with wound allocation, even if they are in only 2 wargear groups. You can just ignore quite a lot of wounds. And unless you have Cyberwolves left, chances are they will be part of a multi-unit charge so the enemy will have to split his attacks between the T5 2+ save Iron Priest and the 3 or more other Thunderwolf Cavalry models.

If you're doing an all Wolf List you need to do it right...scoring units don't matter so why waste the points on 4 troops choices?

This is what I ran at a local 2K tourney I was in...ended up 3rd with it.

H.Q.

Canis -185

Thunderwolf Lord
Thunderhammer, Storm Shield, Runic Armor, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman, Saga of the Bear -275

Thunderwolf Lord
Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Runic Armor, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman, Saga of Majesty -245

Thunderwolf Lord
Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Runic Armor, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Saga of the Warrior Born -265

Troops

7x Fenrisian Wolves -56

7x Fenrisian Wolves -56

Fast Attack

Thunderwolves 4x
Thunderhammer/Storm Shield, Storm Shield, Storm Shield/Melta Bombs, Naked -295

Thunderwolves 4x
Thunderhammer/Storm Shield, Storm Shield, Storm Shield/Melta Bombs, Naked -295

Thunderwolves 4x
Thunderhammer/Storm Shield, Storm Shield, Storm Shield/Melta Bombs, Naked -295

Total: 1997

Nothing hits more like a ton of bricks than the equivalent to 6 Death Star units running across the field