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In the fluff for the Desert Lions chapter of space marines it mentions the Second Pacification of Isstvan V aka operation Carthage.
Does anyone have a source on what date that operation was conducted?

It seems that this fluff was used to some form in The First Heretic by A.D-B.
It made me wonder if the Desert Lions were a Chapter of the Word Bearers ( like the Serated Sun) and that if they were then maybe that is why we know nothing else of them?

Never heard of it. Have you checked Lexicanum?

I stumbled across this when I was searching for fluff on the Legio Cybernetica.

Here is a little bit of info

Legio cohorts are occasionally attached to campaigning Marine Chapters, such as during Operation Carthage (the Second Pacification of Isstvan V). When the Desert Lions Chapter took the planet's defence forts they were preceded by a complete Legio Cohort of Robots. The Robots had been programmed to advance in an apparently mindless fashion, and proved easy targets for the defenders. However, the Desert Lions used the opportunity to map out the defenders' fire-plans and blind spots. In the Lions' ensuing assault only seven Marines were lost.

All the surviving Robots were inducted into the Chapter as honorary members as a mark of respect

I have some more at home.

It would be have been after the Second Founding in my opinion and I don't believe that the Desert Lions were Word Bearers successors.

There aren't any successor Chapters to the Traitor Legions, are there? I mean, other than the possibility of the Blood Ravens...

Jimsolo wrote:There aren't any successor Chapters to the Traitor Legions, are there? I mean, other than the possibility of the Blood Ravens...

I don't think there are personally but it's been argued that it is possible.

Given that the fluff in question dates (unless I am much mistaken) from a 1988 White Dwarf, the safest assumption would be that at the time of writing, the details of what happened on Istvaan V simply had not yet been firmly established.

English Assassin wrote:Given that the fluff in question dates (unless I am much mistaken) from a 1988 White Dwarf, the safest assumption would be that at the time of writing, the details of what happened on Istvaan V simply had not yet been firmly established.

Pretty much. There was no First Founding back then, nor any structure to the Heresy. The first mention of Istvaan that I know of in its modern connotation as part of the Horus Heresy was 1989's Space Marine rulebook but I'm sure there are earlier WD mentions. It is important to note that they were still called Chapters at that time, not Legions yet, so there was no specified number of them (only 15 or 16 Chapters are named in that book, the Raven Guard being the notable missing First Founding chapter unless I missed a reference to them in that book somewhere, but the Crimson Fists are in it). So in 1988, the Desert Lions probably did exist during the Heresy, and have since been retconned out of existence, or reduced to 2nd Founding (or later) status like the Blood Drinkers, Flesh Eaters, Flesh Tearers, Crmson Fists, Silver Skulls, etc. Fluff in Space Marine says that 9 Chapters was "fully one third" of the Space Marine chapters. Implying 27 or so Chapters total. Of course, it doesn't mention the names of the three loyalist chapters at Istvaan V, and if they were considered completely wiped out(SM89 says they were purged from Imperial Records), it could be 30 total. Also of note, the Blood Angels weren't at Terra, only the IF and WS.

Gotta just chalk up inconsistencies like this as being the product of the fact that nothing before 1993 was part of the cohesive vision we have of modern 40K.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

English Assassin wrote:Given that the fluff in question dates (unless I am much mistaken) from a 1988 White Dwarf, the safest assumption would be that at the time of writing, the details of what happened on Istvaan V simply had not yet been firmly established.

Pretty much. There was no First Founding back then, nor any structure to the Heresy. The first mention of Istvaan that I know of in its modern connotation as part of the Horus Heresy was 1989's Space Marine rulebook but I'm sure there are earlier WD mentions. It is important to note that they were still called Chapters at that time, not Legions yet, so there was no specified number of them (only 15 or 16 Chapters are named in that book, the Raven Guard being the notable missing First Founding chapter unless I missed a reference to them in that book somewhere, but the Crimson Fists are in it). So in 1988, the Desert Lions probably did exist during the Heresy, and have since been retconned out of existence, or reduced to 2nd Founding (or later) status like the Blood Drinkers, Flesh Eaters, Flesh Tearers, Crmson Fists, Silver Skulls, etc. Fluff in Space Marine says that 9 Chapters was "fully one third" of the Space Marine chapters. Implying 27 or so Chapters total. Of course, it doesn't mention the names of the three loyalist chapters at Istvaan V, and if they were considered completely wiped out(SM89 says they were purged from Imperial Records), it could be 30 total. Also of note, the Blood Angels weren't at Terra, only the IF and WS.

Not entirely correct it is from WD 104 of August 1988 and then features again in the 1989 Compendium. The Horus Heresy was established in the board game Space Marine: Epic Battles in the Age of Heresy as well as published in the Realm of Chaos books. I think the specifics were confirmed in Slaves to Darkness, which was a 1988 publication.

In the compendium it also confirms that there have been 26 Foundings after the first 'Chapters', of which there were 20 originally, and only 7 of the first exist as they are today.

What you are saying in regards to the Chapters not being correct could be true at the time of the initial publication making reference of Carthage, but was then reworked in the Compendium.

So it is entirely possible that there was a second pacification of Istvaan after the Heresy. This will only change depending on the fate of Istvaan and unless there has been some other fluff saying that there has never been an Operation Carthage.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Gotta just chalk up inconsistencies like this as being the product of the fact that nothing before 1993 was part of the cohesive vision we have of modern 40K.

True, but it is the foundation of what we are finding out today, things will change and there will be difference, but it is still the basis and inspiration for anything being written now about it.