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This is a question that's come up in several games and I've never really had a straight answer since it always seems to what benefits the player the most at the moment but in the shooting phase when firing on a squad. Do you fire all weapons from the squad or vehicle then divide out the wounds for saves or do you fire one type of weapon, allocate the wounds, roll saves, then move onto the next. It can make the difference when you have multiple template weapons or trying to space out special weapon hits upon your invuln saves. I'm a little empty on this section of the rules since my Guardsmen generally melt like paper to most weaponry regardless of armor save... lol. Still some clarification would be appreciated and appologies if I seem too much like an FNG.

ALL shooting from one unit is 100% simultaneous.

A unit fires everything simultaneously... So say a tactical with a flamer and missile launcher with 8 guys with bolters fire at 30 orcs. Say 4 are covered by the small blast template and then 6 by the flamer template finally 6 bolters hit. That would convert to 16 wound attempts on the orcs.

All the wounds come simultaneously. Then they are divided in as equal numbers as possible to all the models in the squad.

You roll to hit with all weapons, then you roll to wound with all weapons, then you allocate these wounds and take saves.

The best way to do this is have different colored dice.

something like this "ok, I'm shooting you with my tactical squad. Rapid firing my bolters and my one plasma gun. Bolters are white dice, Plasma gun is the red dice"

*rolls dice

"Alright, I got 7 hits with my bolters and 1 hit with my plasma gun"

*picks up dice that hit

" Now I'll roll the wound"

"I got 4 bolter wounds and one plasma wound on your dudes. So your CSM have to take 4 Armor saves and 1 cover save"

you only have 3 dudes left in your squad of CSM so one of them is going to take 2 wounds.

You decide to put the plasma wound and a bolter wound on your guy with just a bolter, one bolter wound on your champion, and one bolter wound on your Meltagunner.

You then roll your saves. Your champion and meltagunner pass their armor saves, but your poor old bolter guy failed his cover save so he dies.

Grey Templar wrote:
you only have 3 dudes left in your squad of CSM so one of them is going to take 2 wounds.

You decide to put the plasma wound and a bolter wound on your guy with just a bolter, one bolter wound on your champion, and one bolter wound on your Meltagunner.

You then roll your saves. Your champion and meltagunner pass their armor saves, but your poor old bolter guy failed his cover save so he dies.

If they are all different like this yes. Otherwise it is by models that are identical in gaming terms and one group is allocated an extra wound.

Akroma06 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
you only have 3 dudes left in your squad of CSM so one of them is going to take 2 wounds.

You decide to put the plasma wound and a bolter wound on your guy with just a bolter, one bolter wound on your champion, and one bolter wound on your Meltagunner.

You then roll your saves. Your champion and meltagunner pass their armor saves, but your poor old bolter guy failed his cover save so he dies.

If they are all different like this yes. Otherwise it is by models that are identical in gaming terms and one group is allocated an extra wound.

No its always by model, if he had two bolter guys and a champion and 5 saves the champion only has to take 1 save.

Noir wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
you only have 3 dudes left in your squad of CSM so one of them is going to take 2 wounds.

You decide to put the plasma wound and a bolter wound on your guy with just a bolter, one bolter wound on your champion, and one bolter wound on your Meltagunner.

You then roll your saves. Your champion and meltagunner pass their armor saves, but your poor old bolter guy failed his cover save so he dies.

If they are all different like this yes. Otherwise it is by models that are identical in gaming terms and one group is allocated an extra wound.

No its always by model, if he had two bolter guys and a champion and 5 saves the champion only has to take 1 save.

Yes, you allocate the wounds on a model-to-model basis, but when rolling saves you roll ALL the dice from identical models and remove that number of casualties from that group.

PS. There is a strong chance of me having misunderstood what you are trying to say.
If that is the case, just ignore me.


...

Steelmage99 wrote:

Noir wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
you only have 3 dudes left in your squad of CSM so one of them is going to take 2 wounds.

You decide to put the plasma wound and a bolter wound on your guy with just a bolter, one bolter wound on your champion, and one bolter wound on your Meltagunner.

You then roll your saves. Your champion and meltagunner pass their armor saves, but your poor old bolter guy failed his cover save so he dies.

If they are all different like this yes. Otherwise it is by models that are identical in gaming terms and one group is allocated an extra wound.

No its always by model, if he had two bolter guys and a champion and 5 saves the champion only has to take 1 save.

Yes, you allocate the wounds on a model-to-model basis, but when rolling saves you roll ALL the dice from identical models and remove that number of casualties from that group.

Yes and the way the guy I qouted had it, you would of put 2 one 1 wound group and 3 on the other wound group. It had nothing to do with removing wounded models.

P.S. Too late. Sorry.

Yup, in that example its as follows.


5 wounds are taken on a 3 man squad. 2 Bolter marines and a sergeant.

You want your Sergeant to survive so you place 2 wounds on each of the bolter marines and 1 on him. You will however roll the bolter marine's saves at the same time, but it doesn't matter if all 4 of these saves are failed. You still only remove a bolter marine.

You allocate wounds in this fashion. lets say we have a ten man tactical squad with both a special and heavy weapon.

Sergeant
Meltagun
Missile Launcher
Bolter boy
Bolter boy
Bolter boy
Bolter boy
Bolter boy
Bolter boy
Bolter boy


lets say you take 11 wounds from fire that doesn't ignore your armor. Because you have 10 dudes in the squad, everyone is going to take at least 1 save(so everyone is in danger), but you do get to choose who is taking the 11th save.

In this case you will put the 11th save on a regular bolter boy because you want to keep your special guys alive.

Sergeant(1)
Meltagun(1)
Missile Launcher(1)
Bolter boy(1)
Bolter boy(1)
Bolter boy(1)
Bolter boy(1)
Bolter boy(1)
Bolter boy(1)
Bolter boy(2)

But when it comes to rolling saves you will roll the saves of identical models together. In this case you will roll all the Bolter boy saves together, in this case 8 saves.



You can use this to eat low AP wounds. Say you have the same situation, but 2 of the 11 wounds are from a plasmagun and you have no cover saves.

You could stack both the plasma wounds on, say, the Missile launcher guy. because you arn't in cover each of those plasma wounds will kill a guy, but because of wound allocation you can stick them both on one guy and reduce your casualities.

This illustration works better with Terminators.


Lets say you have a squad of assault terminators. 2 of them have TH/SS and 3 have LCs.

You get wounded by 7 Bolter rounds and also take 2 plasma gun wounds.

The plasma wounds ignore your armor, but you do get your invuln saves. you have 9 total wounds. This means 4 people are taking 2 wounds and 1 is only taking one.

Your wound allocation may go as follows.

TH/SS(2 plasma)
TH/SS(2 bolter)
LC(2 bolter)
LC(2 bolter)
LC(1 bolter)

You then roll 5 armor saves for the LC terminators and 2 armor and 2 invuln saves for the TH/SS terminators.

In this way, you can allocate your best saves to the wounds best suited for taking that save.

You can also potentially "eat" wounds for your squad.

Lets go back to 3 marines, each is completely different from the other.

Space Marine Librarian
Sergeant
bolter boy

Lets say you take 10 wounds, and 3 of them are krak missile wounds that cause instant death. the other 7 are from bolters.

With wound allocation, you allocate them as follows

Space Marine Librarian(3 bolter wounds)
Sergeant(3 bolter wounds)
bolter boy(3 Krak missiles, 1 bolter wound)

Our poor little bolter boy has been allocated the 3 krak missile wounds. he is dead, but we can still allocate wounds to him. That bolter wound he takes is essentially ignored because he is quite dead, but he takes it anyway.

because there were these bolter wounds we were also able to allow our Sergeat and Librarian the best chance of survival because they are only taking armor saves.

If the squad had been wounded by just the 3 krak missiles all three of our models would have been dead, as each must take one wound before being assigned a 2nd. Instead, because there were 7 bolter wounds, the Librarian has an almost assured chance of surviving and the Sergeant may also survive as well.



This is why it is sometimes best to not fire weapons with a poor Ap at certain enemies because they can stack the couple of low Ap shots on a single guy and lower the number of casualities.

If I hit and wound with 2 plasma gun shots and nothing else I will kill 2 marines that arn't in cover. But if I also fired a bunch of bolters at them I may just kill one dude and then have all the bolter rounds bounce off their armor saves.