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This has been buging me for a while and i just wondered what other people think. My theory is Horus only wounded Sanguinus.

It's a psychic avatar. It says that right in its description.

Where exactly?

He is a completely illogical guy made because Mr. Ward felt BA needed a Draigo.

HOW DARE YOU SIR! MR. WARD MAKES EVERYTHING LOGICAL!

HOW DARE YOU!

GOOD DAY!

Ward's ripoff of St Celestine, but male, as he doesn't like women


He's an unnecessary addition to make BA look more spiritually uberer than anyone else, kindof like the ghost knights for GK.

*shrug*


And no, it's not Sanguinus, He got his ass handed to him by Horus, and the BA ger to periodically feel his death through their blood, by plotblag.

In older fluff IIRC this caused the Black Rage, but i'm not all the way up on the latest retconned/re'explained' BA fluff. I have the codex, but it takes an effort of will to read it :(

Bruce Wayne, or possibly Clark Kent. Does the Sanguinor wear glasses?

Ascalam wrote:Ward's ripoff of St Celestine, but male, as he doesn't like women


He's an unnecessary addition to make BA look more spiritually uberer than anyone else, kindof like the ghost knights for GK.

*shrug*


And no, it's not Sanguinus, He got his ass handed to him by Horus, and the BA ger to periodically feel his death through their blood, by plotblag.

In older fluff IIRC this caused the Black Rage, but i'm not all the way up on the latest retconned/re'explained' BA fluff. I have the codex, but it takes an effort of will to read it :(

Here's how I understood it:

Sanguinius got himself kilt. When he did that, his psychic presence split in two. One side of it caused the Black Rage/Red Thirst that affects all BA that aren't Flesh Tearers (I think that's the one that cured the flaw).

The other half manifests as The Sanguinor. So both of what you said are correct.

CxOrillion wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Ward's ripoff of St Celestine, but male, as he doesn't like women


He's an unnecessary addition to make BA look more spiritually uberer than anyone else, kindof like the ghost knights for GK.

*shrug*


And no, it's not Sanguinus, He got his ass handed to him by Horus, and the BA ger to periodically feel his death through their blood, by plotblag.

In older fluff IIRC this caused the Black Rage, but i'm not all the way up on the latest retconned/re'explained' BA fluff. I have the codex, but it takes an effort of will to read it :(

Here's how I understood it:

Sanguinius got himself kilt. When he did that, his psychic presence split in two. One side of it caused the Black Rage/Red Thirst that affects all BA that aren't Flesh Tearers (I think that's the one that cured the flaw).

The other half manifests as The Sanguinor. So both of what you said are correct.

It isnt the flesh tearers.
The chapter that claims they have is worse than the others for black rage and red thirst.

Its a deamon.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Its a deamon.

Thanks Caboose, now go play with some kittens


I like they idea of the darkside/light side split with the black rage/Sanguinor but it doesn't quite fit with the fulff as the black rage was psychic feedback IIRC

I've always favoured the assumption that the Sanguinor is some kind of "Daemon of Law".

Incidentally, back when Citadel actually made such things, they looked like this:

optimusprime14 wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Its a deamon.

Thanks Caboose, now go play with some kittens

It is a daemon, once again, say so right in his description.

The inquisition fears its a psychic construct. Which to me reeks of deamons. Hell the saints may be deamons. Its 40k, its grimdark, and mephiston might be a deamonhost as well so it fits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ps optimusprime i like my kittens, unless theyre covered in spikes drinking red bull. Then that makes me angry.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:He is a completely illogical guy made because Mr. Ward felt BA needed a Draigo.

Which came first? Draigo or Sanguinor? Not sure if Draigo was in the previous Grey Knights book.

I want to say Draigo is only in the 5th ed book. So the Sanguinor came first. Maybe it was a prototype test for draigo. Lol.

Draigo is new.

The uber (and only iirc) GK character in the old book was Stern, and he was awesome without being fething redonculous.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:The inquisition fears its a psychic construct. Which to me reeks of deamons. Hell the saints may be deamons. Its 40k, its grimdark, and mephiston might be a deamonhost as well so it fits.

Even if they do, they can't touch one of the original Chapters. No matter how much the Hereticus/Ecclesiarchy rants, the High Lords, Ordo Malleus, Mechanicus, and the other original Chapters would never let it happen. It'd set off an Astartes rebellion like the one that toppled Vandire, only this time, the bodies of the Hereticus Grand Conclave will be the ones hanging flayed from the ruined spires of Ophelia VII.

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:The inquisition fears its a psychic construct. Which to me reeks of deamons. Hell the saints may be deamons. Its 40k, its grimdark, and mephiston might be a deamonhost as well so it fits.

Even if they do, they can't touch one of the original Chapters. No matter how much the Hereticus/Ecclesiarchy rants, the High Lords, Ordo Malleus, Mechanicus, and the other original Chapters would never let it happen. It'd set off an Astartes rebellion like the one that toppled Vandire, only this time, the bodies of the Hereticus Grand Conclave will be the ones hanging flayed from the ruined spires of Ophelia VII.

Well they probably could if it was warranted...
I mean, if the Imperial Fists started worshipping chaos and tried to virus bomb Terra then i think most chapters would gladly join the hunt to take them down.

purplefood wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:The inquisition fears its a psychic construct. Which to me reeks of deamons. Hell the saints may be deamons. Its 40k, its grimdark, and mephiston might be a deamonhost as well so it fits.

Even if they do, they can't touch one of the original Chapters. No matter how much the Hereticus/Ecclesiarchy rants, the High Lords, Ordo Malleus, Mechanicus, and the other original Chapters would never let it happen. It'd set off an Astartes rebellion like the one that toppled Vandire, only this time, the bodies of the Hereticus Grand Conclave will be the ones hanging flayed from the ruined spires of Ophelia VII.

Well they probably could if it was warranted...
I mean, if the Imperial Fists started worshipping chaos and tried to virus bomb Terra then i think most chapters would gladly join the hunt to take them down.

Obviously...but if it was just because the Hereticus got all rabid over the less-'normal' traditions and legends (or not), the Astartes would be marching on Ophelia VII while the High Lords and the Ordo Malleus look the other way.

Tadashi wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:The inquisition fears its a psychic construct. Which to me reeks of deamons. Hell the saints may be deamons. Its 40k, its grimdark, and mephiston might be a deamonhost as well so it fits.

Even if they do, they can't touch one of the original Chapters. No matter how much the Hereticus/Ecclesiarchy rants, the High Lords, Ordo Malleus, Mechanicus, and the other original Chapters would never let it happen. It'd set off an Astartes rebellion like the one that toppled Vandire, only this time, the bodies of the Hereticus Grand Conclave will be the ones hanging flayed from the ruined spires of Ophelia VII.

Well they probably could if it was warranted...
I mean, if the Imperial Fists started worshipping chaos and tried to virus bomb Terra then i think most chapters would gladly join the hunt to take them down.

Obviously...but if it was just because the Hereticus got all rabid over the less-'normal' traditions and legends (or not), the Astartes would be marching on Ophelia VII while the High Lords and the Ordo Malleus look the other way.

Debatable...
It would depend on how many of the Astartes were doing it and what they actually intended to do...

purplefood wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:The inquisition fears its a psychic construct. Which to me reeks of deamons. Hell the saints may be deamons. Its 40k, its grimdark, and mephiston might be a deamonhost as well so it fits.

Even if they do, they can't touch one of the original Chapters. No matter how much the Hereticus/Ecclesiarchy rants, the High Lords, Ordo Malleus, Mechanicus, and the other original Chapters would never let it happen. It'd set off an Astartes rebellion like the one that toppled Vandire, only this time, the bodies of the Hereticus Grand Conclave will be the ones hanging flayed from the ruined spires of Ophelia VII.

Well they probably could if it was warranted...
I mean, if the Imperial Fists started worshipping chaos and tried to virus bomb Terra then i think most chapters would gladly join the hunt to take them down.

Obviously...but if it was just because the Hereticus got all rabid over the less-'normal' traditions and legends (or not), the Astartes would be
marching on Ophelia VII while the High Lords and the Ordo Malleus look the other way.

Debatable...
It would depend on how many of the Astartes were doing it and what they actually intended to do...

The Blood Angels and successors, all the Chapters in Segmentum Solar not otherwise occupied, and blockading Ophelia VII until the Hereticus agree to 'revise' their decision. All the while, the Malleus and the High Lords are very intersted in otherwise empty tracts of space, ignoring the increasing shrill exhortations of the Ecclesiarchy, while the Fabricator-General looks on smugly.

Another reason i dislike space marines. You think for a group of people who almost brought down the the IoM and killed big e you think theyd have less power not more. Plus since the Inquisition can have any military asset under their command all it would take is them ordering a battlegroup to break the blockade. Wnd a couple of hundred regiments to defend the planet. They wouldnt go meekly. Plus there would be chapters who support the ordos. Its would turn into a civil war.

Tadashi wrote:Even if they do, they can't touch one of the original Chapters. No matter how much the Hereticus/Ecclesiarchy rants, the High Lords, Ordo Malleus, Mechanicus, and the other original Chapters would never let it happen. It'd set off an Astartes rebellion like the one that toppled Vandire, only this time, the bodies of the Hereticus Grand Conclave will be the ones hanging flayed from the ruined spires of Ophelia VII.

I'd be interested to hear about what supports your claim. Comparable deeds have been duly met with Excommunicate Traitoris. I don't really see why it would be different with a chapter from the First Founding, we have actually eight (edit : wait, that's nine) examples of such "chapters" having gone rogue.

The continued existence of the nine Chapters bearing the names and colours of the nine loyal Legions is pretty much a matter of literary convenience. When GW added the Second Founding (as we now know it) to the fluff (and first created the Legion-Chapter distinction), they chose established and popular Chapters to make up the original nine. In practice, they were not then (and, for that matter, are not now) going needlessly to alienate a lot of players by declaring, say, the Iron Hands or Whitescars to have turned traitor or been destroyed.

Of course not, but that is just that : plot armour.

Hyd wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Even if they do, they can't touch one of the original Chapters. No matter how much the Hereticus/Ecclesiarchy rants, the High Lords, Ordo Malleus, Mechanicus, and the other original Chapters would never let it happen. It'd set off an Astartes rebellion like the one that toppled Vandire, only this time, the bodies of the Hereticus Grand Conclave will be the ones hanging flayed from the ruined spires of Ophelia VII.

I'd be interested to hear about what supports your claim. Comparable deeds have been duly met with Excommunicate Traitoris. I don't really see why it would be different with a chapter from the First Founding, we have actually eight (edit : wait, that's nine) examples of such "chapters" having gone rogue.

I don't think they'd get away with that level of beligerance but most first founding chapters have a great deal of political power due to their age...

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sanguinor#.T0lH7PEge68

Has lexicanum been any help?

One theory behind the Sanguinor is that he is Askellon. The only member of the Snaguinary Guard to survive the Horus Heresy because Sanguinious said he needed to stay behind.

Another is that it is a Psychic manifestation of Sanguinious that appears at certain times.

purplefood wrote:

Hyd wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Even if they do, they can't touch one of the original Chapters. No matter how much the Hereticus/Ecclesiarchy rants, the High Lords, Ordo Malleus, Mechanicus, and the other original Chapters would never let it happen. It'd set off an Astartes rebellion like the one that toppled Vandire, only this time, the bodies of the Hereticus Grand Conclave will be the ones hanging flayed from the ruined spires of Ophelia VII.

I'd be interested to hear about what supports your claim. Comparable deeds have been duly met with Excommunicate Traitoris. I don't really see why it would be different with a chapter from the First Founding, we have actually eight (edit : wait, that's nine) examples of such "chapters" having gone rogue.

I don't think they'd get away with that level of beligerance but most first founding chapters have a great deal of political power due to their age...

Well in that case, instead of confronting the Hereticus directly, they'd use their influence and have the other Ordos overturn the decision.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Another reason i dislike space marines. You think for a group of people who almost brought down the the IoM and killed big e you think theyd have less power not more. Plus since the Inquisition can have any military asset under their command all it would take is them ordering a battlegroup to break the blockade. Wnd a couple of hundred regiments to defend the planet. They wouldnt go meekly. Plus there would be chapters who support the ordos. Its would turn into a civil war.

Because we built the Imperium, that's why. And the Emperor gave us semi-autonomy and religious independence; well sort off...the Chapter Cults were tolerated, but outright worship was forbodden during the Great Crusade. It's not like the Inquisition/High Lords could revoke Imperial decree.