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When my friend first told me this books ending I was frankly insulted. I had played both KoToR 1 and 2 as Revan and the Exile. To my mind it was well established in those games that they were the two most powerful jedi/dark jedi ever. I had also enjoyed both their characters and their followers; especially with Bastilla Shan in the first game. What happens is simple. Revan goes to investigate what turned him and it turns out to have been the Emperor from the current MMO and the 'true Sith' hinted at in the older titles. He is captured by one of the factions and in particular a Lord Scourge who is concerned that the Emperor has gone mad and will gladly and eventually kill all life in the galaxy to ensure that he alone survives. As revan begins to manipulate Soucrge, the Exile goes in search of Revan and together with Scourge rescue Revan. They then sneak into the Emperors palace and attempt to kill him. Now, those who've played the games will remember Revan storming the Starforge and killing Malak. They will remember the Exile wiping out whole battalions of Sith during the attack on the academy. Yet the Emperor doesn't just beat them. He does so easily. Overpowering Revan, he is only saved by the intervention of the Exile. All three face the Emperor. (Apologies for language)

Then the writer decides to go you. Scourge has a vision, he sees the Jedi you can play in the MMO triumphant over the Emperor and knows that he must live to help that jedi. Only a few pages into our fight he quite effortlessly stabs the exile in the back killing her instantly. Revan is then driven into unconsciousness and scourge shows his loyalty by readying to execute Revan but the Emperor only tests him. Revan will be of use in finding out the strength of the Republic. This was a morbid, almost crass insult to people who played the origional game. Its as if they consciously wanted to inflate any MMO characters ego by saying you're better than all other jedi put together . This ontop of the fact that the exile got short shift in terms of character devlopment. Her only motivation is a sense of duty to Revan, her former master and a vague desire for redemption for her actions at Malachor. I totally agree with another reviewer on Amazon that people who will buy this book will do so for nostalgia, such an anti-climactic fight does no justice to either of these main characters whom many people invested a lot of time in. As he said, they should have done what happened in the Force Unleashed where Starkiller almost beat the Emperor and Vader but ultimately loses; that would have been much more appropriate treatment. In fairness, the writer was prevented from doing so by the fact that Scourge has to live for the events of the MMO to happen, is the one who gets them to the Palace, and the Emperor would have killed him had he raised his blade against him. There was thus no way of circumventing this plot point. In fact the writer had to resort to Revan and T3 charging in first while the other two fought at the door to have any fight to happen at all.

However, I was moved by the palpable sense of sacrifice that you get at the epilogue; however admittedly cliche and a cheap shot it is. The Exile had left with a message from Bastilla who had bourne his child. He had already saved the galaxy yet had been driven by his past and sense of fear for the future of his family to step into the void. When he sees the holopic of his child you really do sympathise with what he has given away to be here. It is implied in the book that after thirty years of brutal war against the Mandalorians, five years against Revan n malaks Sith and the Sith Lords of the Second game; all of which had been engineered by the Emperor that the Republic cannot resist. The Jedi Order has been all but wiped out, the Madalorians are broken and the Republic reeling from the devastation that has left whole worlds dead and billions killed. If the Emperor were to march his troops into the galaxy at this moment or were aware of this fact; he would triumph easily. Far easier than his intial success as described in the events of the MMO 300 years later.Yet when Revan falls, he is able to endure the tortures of the Emperor as he tries to unlock his secrets and with the help of the exiles spirit manages to actually subtly manipulate the Emperor into deciding that attacking the Republic would be reckless. Ironically he wins the peace for his family that he hoped for. The image is complete when we switch back to Bastilla as an old woman remarking about how Revan wouldn't have been disappointed in her son for being force-blind and not joining the Order. That because of him he need not know war and that his son (Supreme Chancellor) was what the galaxy needed most. A chance to rebuild and recover after so much blood and ruin. This was a very touching bittersweet moment for me and for that reason not a total write off.

I hesitate to recommend the book and remain of two minds about it. Had they handled the final confrontation better and given better treatment to the Exile especially then it might have been more enjoyable. As it stands I got the impression that they were just using the legacy of the old games to make a cheap tie in novel to drum up support for the MMO and yet managed to trample over them in the process.

Drew Karpyshyn (Is it just me or would that name seem perfectly in place in Star Wars?) is the writer for KotOR and TOR, and Revan and the True Sith are effectively his creations (effectively Drew is the creator of the entire Old Republic era).

Its probably important to note that when Revan and Meetra were incorporated into the Canon of Star Wars, Meetra actually came in as not being particularly powerful. What set her apart was saving the Republic and the Jedi Order from collapse in the wake of the Jedi Civil War, not her ability to use the force. Revan however was incorporated as being one of the most powerful Jedi to ever live (and with the writing of the Bane books, also by Drew I believe probably the most influencial Sith Lord who ever lived).

Its also probably important to note that Obsidian's story was really really really crappy within the context of Star Wars lore. The Sith Triumverate were ridiculously over top in terms of power, so much so that a lot of fans still debate that KotOR 2 should never have been integrated into the canon.

I thought Revan was okay. Only EU material I've read in a really long time. Not that great but I didn't think the ending was that bad, and since we're never getting a KotOR 3, its better than nothing.

Meetra beats a force apparition of Revan on Korriban and is level 30 whilst Revan could only hit level 20 and Kreia who trained Revan actually says 'you are the greatest apprentice I ever had'. Exchanging one game stepping on the previous for another I know . But Meetra was not made out as a run of the mill Jedi.

I didn't think the Triumvarate were that powerful. In fact Nihulus is arguably only on the same level of power as the Emperor since the Emperor was able to consume the life essence of every soul on a world to make himself immortal just like Nihilus was able to. Perhaps compared to the origional series and clone wars but there are more powerful examples in the extended lore. Darth Krayt and the Lord who can turn whole armies into Raghouls spring to mind. TBH I was more confused by some of the concepts of the force in the second game rather than thiking they were OTT. In short the Emperor in this MMO seems pretty OTT himself.

ps Do you think Zayne Carrick is going to turn out to be Darth Nihulus? dum dum dum!!! We haven't seen how his force ability responds to him killing anyone. Yet...

BTW Lord of Hats, have you read any of the KoToR comics about Zayne, Jarael , and Griff? I recently just started buying the new series myself after my friend recommneded them and lent me the old issues. Do you think they'll tie that up with the MMO as well? I mean they hinted, very early on, that something was manipulating the Mandalorians and this was confirmed in the Revan book. Cassus Fett a Sith agent? After it turned out that that guy was a Zeltron I wouldn't put it past them.

Its part of the problem with KotOR2 itself. Because of the nature of the games, what became canon and what happened in the games is different (for example Meetra Surik, the Exile, is canonically female while Revan is canonically male, and Brianna joined the Exile even though in the game a female character can't get Hand Maiden as a companion). Meetra in current cannon is considered "average" as a force user. I actually wonder what the relation (in terms of creation there is between Nihulus and the Emperor as their character's are oddly similar). We know for a fact the Emperor is actually Lord Vitate, from the Hyperspace Wars. However, The Emperor did what he did with a very complicated Sith spell that used numerous other Sith Lords to achieve. Nihulus just... did it and he being is different from the Emperor's. Nihulus just sucked up Force energy as if it were his nature to do so.

EDIT: No I haven't read the comics. I got really pissed at the direction of the EU when that <explative> Karen Travis killed Mara Jade and I quote (figuritively) "for the hell of it." Ever since I've ceased buying EU material though I keep up with what goes on.

True, but the Emperor also had the force when he was a child which he instinctively used to kill his parents and killed a Sith Lord aged ten.

Also, as I imply with my theory about Zayne being Nihilus, we don't know what created that abomination. I'am also tempted to believe it because it actually explains the creation of Darth Sion during the series. Essentially he was utterly broken and humiliated after the traumatic events of one comic and going into exile forced all his self hatred and loathing into himself through years of mental self discipline/force using until he became what he was. Think about it, how many sith actually hate themselves or would have recourse to use the force to turn themselves into actual monsters where life is eternal torment you can't ignore.

edit Oh, well, yeah I heard about how they wrapped up the New Republic/Galactic Alliance plotline and it does seem pretty silly that Jacen would go psycho. Never mind the legacy era saying that Jaina n Fel sired a bloodline that came to lead a new Galactic Empire! But personally I'd say the KoToR ones are fairly okay, Zayne's hardly a god, in fact he's actually a pacifist jedi whose just caught in bad situations and I'd say he reminds me of the early Jacen from Jedi Academy. To be fair, I disliked one of plots involving the first five issues (final villain was just impossible to take seriously) but really enjoyed the ones where they went into jaraels backstory which had a few nice surprises along the way.

If you don't like what the writer did to his characters, you may want to avoid the prequel films, lest you find out what the overall creator did to his characters/universe.

tl;dr any Star Wars thing that goes on will eventually split it's fan base.

Meetra beats a force apparition of Revan on Korriban and is level 30 whilst Revan could only hit level 20 and Kreia who trained Revan actually says 'you are the greatest apprentice I ever had'

What is this 'levels' foolishness? Is this Dragonball Z all of sudden?

Pickachoo I choose you!

In the actual games. In koToR one, revan maxed out at level 20. In KoToR two it was higher at either 25 or 30. The exile is/was as described in the game very powerful.

She was 'Dovahkin!' in her own right .

Totalwar1402 wrote:In the actual games. In koToR one, revan maxed out at level 20. In KoToR two it was higher at either 25 or 30. The exile is/was as described in the game very powerful.

She was 'Dovahkin!' in her own right .

Adn for want of one shotgun, one man could rule the galaxy....

Sorry intruding now. Are there any Star Wars novels not involving Jedi or Sith? Serious question.

Frazzled wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:In the actual games. In koToR one, revan maxed out at level 20. In KoToR two it was higher at either 25 or 30. The exile is/was as described in the game very powerful.

She was 'Dovahkin!' in her own right .

Adn for want of one shotgun, one man could rule the galaxy....

Sorry intruding now. Are there any Star Wars novels not involving Jedi or Sith? Serious question.

There were a bunch of Republic Commando books if I recall right. There's probably several on bounty hunters/Boba Fett. In short, yes though I don't read many myself, I only leant the book off a friend.

To your first point I must disagree. 'Dovahkin!' is a status reserved for the main character and is earned because that character gets done. One man with a shotgun may rule the galaxy. But when all men in the game are equally armed and in comeptition for the place and yet he/she emerges triumphant atop their corpses; then it is manifest that she is 'Dovahkin!'.

Thanks!

Frazzled wrote:Pickachoo I choose you!

Blah, everyone knows Psyduck is clearly superior to Pickachoo

Earthquake. Pikachu problem solved.

Frazzled wrote:Sorry intruding now. Are there any Star Wars novels not involving Jedi or Sith? Serious question.

One of the few star wars books I've read is 'Tales from Jabba's Palace', which was a collection of short stories, involving the characters at the palace in the scenes in Return/Jedi. Pretty amusing, there are several plots to kill Jabba going on, others are trying to escape, etc. You find out how Bobba escapes the Sarlacc Pit.

Frazzled wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:
Sorry intruding now. Are there any Star Wars novels not involving Jedi or Sith? Serious question.

There were a bunch of Republic Commando books if I recall right. There's probably several on bounty hunters/Boba Fett. In short, yes though I don't read many myself, I only leant the book off a friend.

Those books do include Jedi, since they are the generals in charge of the Commandos' actions! Jedi do play an essential part in the series, but the focus is basically on the Commandos and their Mandalorian instructors!
There are a few (smuggler/scoundrel books) that dont include Jedi at all. I think the Han Solo & Calrissian series`dont, but its been ages since Ive read those!

Deathtrooper
X-Wing series
Shadow Games (I believe, havent read it yet)

PS: Awesome thread by the way! Im a huge star wars nut, but KOTOR never really caught me (much to my shame I have to say). I think its awesome that this can be discussed in such detail here! Really cool stuff!