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This is the 35-point Cygnar list I've used the last few times out.

Captain Haley (+5)
Journeyman Warcaster
Defender
Charger
Charger
Precursor Knights (6)
Precursor Knights Officer and Standard
Long Gunners (6)
Black 13th
Squire

The trouble with it is that when it performs well, it's dull to play and it has got to be miserable to play against. My brilliant plan is to use Temporal Barrier to slow the bad guys down so my shooting can soften them up, then use Haley's feat. The Precursors charge and clear line of sight to the caster and then my shooty units assassinate the other caster.

While I have pulled this off, what happens more often is I move forward to get into range and then slowly withdraw to prolong the shooting until there's not much left. Obviously this doesn't work against experienced players with good lists; I just lose those games.

Consequently, I've been thinking of trying out a new caster. I've got Major Haley and Siege but I'm not sure either of them suits my army. I do have some additional units in various stages of assembly.

These include:
Ironclad
Centurion
Hunter
Lancer
Gun Mages
Gun Mage Officer
four more Long Gunners
Long Gunner Officer and Standard
Gun Mage Captain Adept
Rhupert Corvolo
Strangeways.

Since I've never played with the other casters, I don't really have a clue other than what the theme lists suggest and I've got little of that and little interest in getting it.

To make matters worse, I've found another caster that I really like; Constance Blaize. I've at least got the Precursors so I'm probably better equipped to switch to her than the two casters I've already got. On the other hand, so much of my stuff is shooty and that seems to go against Connie's theme entirely.

So without wasting too much more of your life, if you've got an idea how to adapt my army to one of these three casters, please share it. I'm certainly willing to spring for a 'Jack or a solo or two, but I'm not keen on getting more units. It isn't the cost, it's just the work.

both Haleys aren't a lot of fun to play against. I'd reccommend Siege -- the only thing he can't really help is accuracy, so as long as you bring some decently accurate models, you should be good.

He's fun to play offensively, while the Haleys have very defensive feats.

I'd build something along the lines of:

Siege
-Defender
-Charger
-Ironclad

then some melee or ranged, to taste. Precursors would be a terror under their feat and his. with average rolls, each would do 16+ vs. ARM 20.

Actually, he could probably swap in well in your listed Haley army, though you'd be playing it more aggressively

spiralingcadaver wrote:. . . I'd reccommend Siege . . .

Actually, he could probably swap in well in your listed Haley army, though you'd be playing it more aggressively

Should I put the Gun Mages in place of the Long Gunners and try that? Adjusting points if necessary - I don't know how many 'Jack points Siege has off of the top of my head.

Yeah, can't remember if he's 5 or 6

and the ATGMs would definitely be more flexible, since I think the LGs are really only good with a range boost and/or a way of slowing down the enemy.

Due to mage sight, already having the b13th, and no jacks that run great on one focus, you probably don't actually need their UA: about the only time I'd recommend taking them w/o it

spiralingcadaver wrote:Yeah, can't remember if he's 5 or 6

and the ATGMs would definitely be more flexible, since I think the LGs are really only good with a range boost and/or a way of slowing down the enemy.

Due to mage sight, already having the b13th, and no jacks that run great on one focus, you probably don't actually need their UA: about the only time I'd recommend taking them w/o it

Shouldn't Defender do okay with only one focus?

Thanks for all of the help.

When it's my only heavy (which it is becoming, more and more), I want to be sure I can load it up with three if it needs to be in melee. People focus so much on its gun that they forget it's more accurate and stronger in melee than it is at range.

I'd probably stick a charger on the JWC, and leave the other two on Siege.

Generally, the only jack (that I field with any regularity) that I'll never question marshaling is a Hunter, since it sucks in melee, has parry, and generally only needs to boost damage.

With the exception of rare circumstances (a mule with the ATGMs as my second or third heavy, or with a good drive and a caster who is so focus-greedy I'll never have 3 focus to spare, for instance), I'll never put a heavy on a marshal- I always find the flexibility of loading it up far outweighs a little more efficiency.

spiralingcadaver wrote:When it's my only heavy (which it is becoming, more and more), I want to be sure I can load it up with three if it needs to be in melee. People focus so much on its gun that they forget it's more accurate and stronger in melee than it is at range.

That stands to reason.

I may give Siege a whirl but I'm still really longing to look into Connie a bit more.

All Siege lists should start with:
Siege
Defender
Squire
Reinholdt (for the second rocket shot from Siege).

Use the precursors as mobile shield for Siege as you need something to crab scenario objectives while looking for the assassination from the Siege/ defender module. Ol Rowdy works great with Siege's melee heavy as he is more fury efficient than normal Ironclad and Siege is struggling with Focus especially on the feat turn.

One thing that would really enhance the Siege list and generally Cygnar ranged game is a unit of Rangers. They have advance deploy and give passive +2 to RAT to targets close to them. With that in place you can rely on hitting with those shots.

Metsuri wrote:All X should start with:
Y

…which is the kind of thinking that makes the game less interesting.

For instance, eCaine "should always start with":
ecaine
-Reinholdt
-Squire
eEiryss
Rangers

In my most recent game
-Reinholdt was unquestionably useful for the extra free shot;
-The Squire was fine, but wouldn't have been missed much;
-I didn't take eEiryss, and never had a moment where I wished I had 3 fewer points of other stuff and did have her
-I love rangers, but they did their own thing, and were never there to assist Caine

Metsuri wrote:All Siege lists should start with:
Siege
Defender
Squire
Reinholdt (for the second rocket shot from Siege).

That actually sounds reasonable. Thanks for the reply.

Does no one have any thoughts about Connie? Is there a publication that includes her? I'm a very infrequent Warmachine player so I'm a bit out of the loop.

She came out in Wrath, with a character jack that's OK without her (sort of like a weak stormclad: runs off of precursors instead of stormblades), but quite good with her (gets additional hit/damage die against things w/ upkeeps)

According to the Battle College entry for Connie:

"You really, REALLY want to have Gallant".

Do you think they're trying to tell me I should use Gallant with Connie?

Anyway, a $35US book, a Warcaster, a Heavy Warjack kit plus an upgrade kit, two Solos - Harlan Versh and Archduke Runewood, and another box of Precursors and I'm in business I guess.

pzbw7z wrote:According to the Battle College entry for Connie:

"You really, REALLY want to have Gallant".

Do you think they're trying to tell me I should use Gallant with Connie?

Anyway, a $35US book, a Warcaster, a Heavy Warjack kit plus an upgrade kit, two Solos - Harlan Versh and Archduke Runewood, and another box of Precursors and I'm in business I guess.

I wouldn't buy the wrath book, there is little need. As for Runewood and Versh, they are awesome. A magical blessed purgatation quad iron is bonkers good. Also overcome, path to victory, reveille, and path to victory along with sac pawn FRIENDLY warjack make him incredible.

Gallant himself isn't "necessary" with blaze. Though his shield guard rocks by blaze. She also will only be using 1 jack in her BG in general so making that one with shield guard, allocated a free focus each turn(meaning he can run for free each turn basically), decent defensive stats, and decent speed/mat/pow with a maigcal reach weapon with purgation is pretty sweet.

So in these regards of Connie a 35pt list:

Connie(+6)
-Gallant (9)
-Squire (2)

Units:
Max Precursor + UA (10)
Full Sword Knights + UA (8)
Marshalled centurion or ironclad (7)

Solos:
Runewood (3)
Strangewayes (2)

All your infantry are immune to spells, which is great.

The sword knights are pretty ideal for a cygnar connie list. With connie they get banishing ward, transference, and benefit from her feat. runewood gives reform, they can pronto the marshalled jack each turn, strangeways can work with the marshalled jack. They get up the field so fast due to reform and pronto on the marshalled jack plus can get that insane flank from it also. Imagine a sword knight with crusaders call, flank and path to victory(if its not on the precursors) able to boost from transference, its crazy.

Strangewayes can also easily be replaced with versh or rhupert depending on preference.

SilverSaint wrote:
All your infantry are immune to spells, which is great.

As long as you're careful about positioning your jacks, that is

spiralingcadaver wrote:

SilverSaint wrote:
All your infantry are immune to spells, which is great.

As long as you're careful about positioning your jacks, that is

I think he means using Banishing Ward to make the Sword Knights untargetable; Precursors already can't be targeted by spells.

No, he is right in what hes referring to, namely any sort of arc'ing spells like ashes to ashes, chain lightning, etc where a jack can be hit and then all the infantry hit.

SilverSaint wrote:No, he is right in what hes referring to, namely any sort of arc'ing spells like ashes to ashes, chain lightning, etc where a jack can be hit and then all the infantry hit.

I see what you both mean. I assumed you just meant untargetable, as they aren't really immune.

Yup!

For instance, while pDenny is reliant primarily on offensive spells, clever positioning of her bonejacks can still ruin your day, as she sprays through your ranks "at" a model 20" away that she ran conveniently opposite your bunch of dudes from said arc node.