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So after finally getting sick of GW, my group decided that Flames of War would be a fresh place to start. Naturally, players in the group gravitated towards some of the major factions. We have an American, Russian and German player.

However, I'm sort of at a loss on a couple of points. Firstly, my group has unanimously decided late-war, which I thought was kind of dull, because Italy was out of the war, leaving only the Germans as a major enemy to the allied powers. Regardless, I looked into some history (read, Wikipedia) and I learned about the Finnish Winter War, Continuation War and the Lapland War. While I'm not particularly well-versed in the details of history, I'm somewhat of a stickler for historical accuracy, so I wanted an army that I could play against both the Axis and the Allies and remain relatively accurate.

So, now to the questions

How hard is it to start Finland? Particularly, an armored company?

What are the general views on playing Allies v. Allies games? While I'm fine with playing them, it seems a tad... off, considering the game is based on a historical premise. I understand that it's ultimately still a game though.

Right now, the Finns are featured in the compilation book, 'Grey Wolf', which covers the Axis forces on the Eastern Front in 1944-45.

Check out this video, for both the Hungarians and the Finns:



I don't have the list myself (it hasn't gone up on Easy Army yet), but as the video says, you have 2 choices for armoured Finnish lists - either a sort of captured soviet tank list, or a StuG list.

Blue on Blue games are down to a personal preference. You can play them (and you'll see it most often in tournaments, but even then you'll see some themed tournies), or you can just chose not to. It's why I have both British (Rifle Company and Armoured Squadron) and German (Panzerkompanie, soon-to-be-Grenadierkompanie) forces, so I can go in between both.

Finn armor is going to be somewhat restricted. You're basically looking at captured Soviet stuff, or purchased German stuff. Aside from a single SU-152 (the Finns captured two, and converted one of them into a transporter), you're looking at medium tanks/assault guns at best, and outdated tin cans at worst. It's doable, but you might want to consider not starting with a tank list. An infantry list should be solid, though.

If you want an Axis list that's not German, you can also look at Hungarian or Romanian lists. The former is in Grey Wolf (along with the Finns), and the latter is in Red Bear (the Romanians switched sides in mid/late 1944). iirc, there's also a pro-Axis Italian PDF on Battlefront's website, representing Italian Fascists who continued to fight for the Axis after the Italian government surrendered.

The big problem, though, is that the lists aren't going to have the flexibility that a German list has (or one of the lists from the major Allied powers). The Hungarians are the only ones who get anything better than T-34s/StuG IIIs/Panzer IVs (the Germans provided them with a handful of Panthers and Tigers). Support options are also going to be somewhat restricted even for Infantry lists (the Romanians do get the best 75mm ATG in the game, though).

Ach, thought as much.

So would a mix of tanks and infantry be better? Which brings me to another fun question, can I mix armor and infantry?

Unfortunately, you're right with the restrictions. But, for the sake of playing Axis in late war that's not just another German clone, I'll make do with limited options.

Also just starting and restating the above questions (starting Polish Normandy division). In general is there an optimum mix of infantry/tanks/artillery? I know thats like asking "how do you win WWII?" but as it is a game any initial starter points for a beginning player?

I have found that tanks function the best when they are in an infantry company.


That is your force is mainly infantry and you purchase tanks as part of your company support.

The exact tanks and number avaliable depends on the company you choose and what book. For example my Fallschirmjagers have Jagdpanthers and Stugs in Hells Highway, but in Fortress Europe they can get Tigers(but not Jagdpanthers)


you really have to look throught the books to find a company that suits your tastes.

Pure armor lists are ok against other armor lists, but if they don't have infantry support they can flop if they face enemy infantry.

How good is the aircraft option in this game in general?

You defiantly want to have at least some Infantry, tanks, and artillery in your army, as combined arms works better in FoW than spamming any type of unit.

I only have an infantry battalion with limited tank support (Italians, so the tanks are far weaker than other nations), and I have found that, at least for an infantry army, artillery cover is a must. The Italians are a mainly defensive army in mid-war, and need the artillery for long ranged killing power. For tank companies and other offensive armies, it can damage enemy platoons early on in the game. Overall, I would say that in most games having artillery or air support is a must, if for nothing else to counter enemy artillery (which can be murderous if you can't counter it).

If you are playing a tank company, it is always advisable to have some infantry to hold objectives and counterassault infantry attacking your tanks. With their 3+ save, the infantry provide valuable staying power to armored armies.

On the topic of Allied vs. Allied and Axis vs. Axis, my gaming group generally explain them as training exercises between friendly forces.

3rd edition has made aircraft much more useful and reliable, although AA fire is a little harder to avoid.

That brings up another point, AA defense is practically mandatory now with planes automatically ranging in on targets in the open.

Frazzled wrote:How good is the aircraft option in this game in general?

Aircraft tend to work similar to artillery, but can be somewhat unreliable depending on how you roll.

I personally do not have much experience against them, as most people in my group don't use them, but I have seen them go between devastating a German tank company in one game, to doing almost nothing in another.

Overall, they are a lot cheaper than artillery, but come with a higher chance of failure (as they can also be destroyed before attacking with good AA cover).

Edit: this is using 2nd edition, as I have not read what is changed with them in 3rd.

V3 changed them rather dramatically. Aircraft now only get one opportunity to range in, but do so automatically if their target is in the open.

Anti-aircraft is now much more LOS dependent than it was before. You get an extra 6" of range with your anti-aircraft guns, but a building mid-way between your AA and the aircraft might end up blocking the shot (in V2, the obstruction needed to be within 4" of the gun to block the shot).

@Frazzled this game is far more Balanced than many realise, you can make alot of competitive lists so really I would say go with your gut Instinct.

I would suggest as a hard bitten Texan, you would want a 36th Infantry Division (The all Texan!).

On 25 November 1940, the Division was mobilized for World War II, with active duty station at Camp Bowie, in Brownwood. It took part in the Louisiana Maneuvers in 1941, trained at Camp Blanding, Florida, and Camp Edwards, Massachusetts, and in April 1943 began its move overseas. It landed in North Africa, conducted amphibious training and on 9 September 1943, landed in Italy at Paestum in the Gulf of Salerno. The 36th was the first American combat division to land on the continent of Europe.

The Division fought in the Italian Campaign as part of the 5th United States Army in such notable actions as Mt. Lungo, San Pietro and the Rapido River. In the Rapido River action, the Division lost the better part of two of its three regiments - 141st and 143d - in unsuccessful attempts to cross the river. The attempted crossing was made to divert German troops from the landing of allied troops at Anzio. On 25 May 1944, the Division landed at Anzio and led the breakout toward Rome. The Division captured Velletri on 1 June 1944, and opened the gates of Rome for the 5th Army. The Division was then pulled out of Italy and landed on the beaches of Southern France on 15 August. Driving up through Southern France, the 36th was attacking and breaking the Siegfried Line when the war in Europe ended. The 36th had spent 400 days in combat, accepted the surrender of Field Marshal Hermann Goering, won seven campaign streamers for its colors, taken part in two assault landings and 14 of its members had won the Medal of Honor. The Division had the ninth highest casualty rate of any Army Division in World War II.

How about that for a Combat Record! Whilst the 101st, 82nd et al were stealing British Womens cherries and carousing, the 36th was kicking ass and taking names. Mid-War and lots of options, a nice little starter that would get you into the hobby and then act as a Springboard into other forces as your knowledge grows. Plus it can also be used LW in Western Europe, so you get Italy, North Africa, and Western Europe.

Frazzled wrote:Also just starting and restating the above questions (starting Polish Normandy division).

Welcome to the war. Which Polish list are you using? This one? http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=644 If so which company organisation?

I would advise taking one of each of the following in any list you take. Infantry, Armour, Recon, AAA and Artillery. Each has a role to play. Since aircraft are unreliable, though powerful, they are a fear weapon, they cause enemies to spread out, hug cover and close with your troops.