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Hey guys! It's been a long while since I've played 40k and I'm looking to get back into it. The army I chose is Imperial Guard. I figured the best way to motivate myself to get back into it and paint stuff up is to get myself signed up for a tournament. So I did! In a couple months, I have a doubles 1250 tourny coming up with a random partner each game. So now I'm trying to build a fun list that is also semi competitive so I can start buying and painting. I'm having a bit of trouble filling the rest of my list though, and would love some advice. What I have so far is:

HQ:
4 Company Command Squad, 155 pts (Meltagun x2)
1 Company Commander
1 Astropath
1 Chimera

Troops:
1 Infantry Platoon, 345 pts
4 Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x3)
1 Platoon Commander
1 Chimera
9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant
1 Chimera
9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant
1 Chimera

1 Infantry Platoon, 345 pts
4 Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x3)
1 Platoon Commander
1 Chimera
9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant
1 Chimera
9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant
1 Chimera

Total: 845

I'm pretty set on those models. Figure I can either run them in chimera's, or make up 2 platoons big platoons and have the chimera's run off and shoot stuff. But I don't know what else to buy. My initial thought was a Leman Russ and a Vendetta. But I don't know.

Help :S

I've never seen a list like this to be honest, though i've only played a couple of dozen of games with my guard so I am far from being a veteran. Just so you know.

But anyway i'll give my two cents;

I can see one very big problem this list will encounter: You have no long range anti-tank whatsoever. All you have are meltaguns. You are going to be completely screwed if the enemy has lascannons, autocannons et al. to pop your chimeras. If your opponent has 1st turn he/she could well pop 3 or 4 of those Chimeras, or at least immobilise them. Then before you even got in range with your meltas he/she could probably pop all the rest before they got within the 12" range to use the meltas.
What you'd be left with is 7 fragmented squads which will be very easy to kill or route with a 5+ armour save and ld7 or 8. They'd also be completely useless in assault and would get easily swept away.

You need commissars to get around the ld problem.
You need some long-range anti-tank.
If you want to run a lot of infantry, you really need to combine the squads into a blob. 30-50 men, with a commissar or two and power weapons. Then, put a couple of squads of Veterans in the Chimeras with melta or plasma.
If you are running a blob i'd recommend Straken (but it depends on what tactics you want to use) since he gives a blob furious charge and counter-attack if placed within 12" of them. Very useful. Then you need to sort out some long-range anti-armour weapons: Maybe a lascannon heavy weapon squad. A vendetta could work too amongst other things.
Then you have to decide if you want LR or artillery like a griffon, manticore or hydra, or you could probably squeeze both into a 1250 list.
Hope this helps.

at this point level you can add Al rehiem and a basilisk
that way your whole platoon ie most of your squads can outflank on one edge and the basilisk with a command squad can sit back and rain artillery

Thanks for the replies!
My list was based off of an article I read of Stelek's
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2011/05/imperial-guard-jargon/

I guess I'm kind of stuck. I dont want to run a vet spam list, but I want atleast 1 blob supported by a bunch of vehicles :S

Hey so the new new IG list to have is based around veterans with Melta in Chimeras. You can get 3 Melta per squad and they're BS 4. Vendettas are my personal fave

Jamora wrote: I dont want to run a vet spam list

Jamora wrote:

Jamora wrote: I dont want to run a vet spam list

Well good! I still think that Vendettas would help. Though the al raheim sounds good.

You don't have to run a vet spam list. And I totally respect that because it's cheesey as feth and doesn't fit at all with fluff.

You can run a perfectly good hybrid list. At 1250 points it works perfectly.

Just take a couple of melta vets in chimeras, and put them on each flank to go tank hunting, utilising cover the whole way. If there are no tanks they are still useful at fething up MEQ or anyone else without an invulnerable save.
Even if they don't manage to kill anything they can prove a massive distraction to your opponent...Especially if you are running a hybrid list where you have artillery and a big 40-50 man blob. Seriously, try it out: Watch your opponents face, they wont know what target to prioritise. Unless they are very experienced 'pros'...

If you want a blob, drop all those chimeras. Because what you are doing is basically chimera spam, without the vets. Which isn't going to work against higher level players. Their long range anti-tank is going to feth you up big time.

If you want one blob, take a blob with 40-50 men. Take 4-5 autocannons with the blob and don;t move it first couple of turns so you can can blast and harass the enemy from range with all those S7 shots. Twin-link them and watch your opponents AV12 die. Then later turns you can use that firepower plus the lasguns when your opponent is closer on infantry.
Also take 4-5 power weapons. You will be grateful for this if your opponent assaults the blob.
Finally, take commissars to give the blob ld9 and stubborn. Absolutely essentially or it'll just run away otherwise.
Another option is to keep a Lord Commissar within 6" so you get ld10 and stubborn. Even better for the blob, but watch out as your LC can be targeted by assassins (though if you are smart with positioning and deployment you can counter this).
Obviously, the flaw with all the autocannons in the blob is the fact you can only target one enemy unit at a time. But that flaw is solved by taking hydras and griffons. At 75pts each they really are a steal and give you more firepower and confuse opponents into what target they should be prioritising.

Colonel Straken is a great asset if you are running a big power blob. He gives it counter-attack and furious charge making it even more of a bitch to kill. Recommended for sure. He also has an equivalent of a chainfist and power armour with an invulnerable save to boot. Worth the points in my opinion.

With 1250 points you could easily run the power blob as described above, plus a lascannon HWS (though some hate them because they are so fragile - but a Lord Commissar negates this flaw to some degree), then 2 veteran melta vets in chimeras, then a griffon and hydra or 2, a PCS with flamers (to counter-assault and protect the blob, or just provide a distraction) and possibly throw a LRBT in there.
Basically, you could run a very nice competitive 'hammer and anvil' list - power blob and artillery (Hydra and/or Griffon) the 'anvil', chimera melta vets, HWS and LRBT your 'hammer'.

Just my two cents. Works for me.

How does this sound for 1250 points ?

HQ:
4 Company Command Squad, 250 pts (Meltagun x2)
1 Straken
1 Officer of the Fleet
1 Chimera

Troops:
1 Infantry Platoon, 345 pts
4 Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x3)
1 Platoon Commander
1 Chimera
9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant
1 Chimera
9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant
1 Chimera

1 Infantry Platoon, 345 pts
4 Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x3)
1 Platoon Commander
1 Chimera
9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant
1 Chimera
9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant
1 Chimera

Elites
Marbo 65

Fast Attack 240
Devil Dog
Devil Dog



Total: 1245

OR

HQ:
4 Company Command Squad (Meltagun x2)
1 Straken
1 Officer of the Fleet


Troops:
1 Infantry Platoon
4 Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x3)
1 Platoon Commander, commissar with pwr weapon

9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant

9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant


1 Infantry Platoon,
4 Platoon Command Squad (Meltagun x3)
1 Platoon Commander with pwr weapon, melta bombs
9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant

9 Infantry Squad (Meltagun x1)
1 Sergeant


Elites
Marbo 65

Fast Attack 240
Devil Dog
Devil Dog

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Demolisher; Heavy Flamer 165
Leman Russ Demolisher; Heavy Flamer 165

Total: 1250

Well you don't seem to have understood the weaknesses I pointed out to you.

You still have zero long range weapons in either list.

If I was running say, space wolves, I would have probably 2 long fang units and a couple of dreadnoughts with autocannons at this points level.
The 2 long fangs with missile launchers could split there fire onto 4 chimeras, with the 2 dreadnoughts targeting another 2. That is 6 chimeras in the first turn potentially immobilised or out of the game.
Let's say it's a 48" table: Even if you get first turn you can only move 12". That cuts it the range down to 36". All your weapons are out of range still and so you wouldn't have fired a thing.
Next turn, you move another 12", and you are now within 24". So your lasguns are in range, along with your chimeras multilaser and the LR demolisher. But you can't fire any of them since you moved 12". So again you can't do anything. That is 2 turns without being able to fire anything at your opponent. Huge huge problem for you.
Using the Space Wolves example list, that would be another 6 units firing (at least) at chimeras in your second turn. Probably by now they would've almost all been neutralised and then it's just a matter of taking out the devil dogs, who have to close enough to use there multi-meltas without dying.
In the meantime, by the 3rd turn when you are finally in range to use some of your weapons (such as the demolisher) a few packs of grey hunters with meltaguns and power fists in razorbacks (or drop pods) would quite easily mop up all the guardsmen that have spilled across the table, and then it's just a matter of killing the Leman Russ Demolishers. The power fists and meltas would quite easily do this.

Sorry if I am being harsh but this list is easily beaten at long-range. It lacks balance - it's all short range. Even if a couple of Chimeras got through you would only have 1 melta shot at BS3 which will miss 50% of the time. Not really a huge threat.
Sure, the devil dogs could cause some damage but again they have to get close to do that.
No idea why you have got Straken since you cannot issue orders with all your troops in Chimeras. You don't have any blobs. You could use him in assault I guess, but again, he has to survive the trip across the board.
Second list would be okay if the squads were combined into a blob and you had some sort of long-range weapons like autocannons and lascannons, and a commissar is absolutely essential or you can bet it will run away easily.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry just realised that wasn't the OP's list.

Oh, I understand perfectly the lack of long range. That's basically why I came on here looking for help. I can see where I went wrong in the first list. As the link I based this off of was designed for a 2000 pt army, I didn't scale it back very well.

I like the idea of a blob, but I'm afraid of it being ineffective due to only being able to shoot at 1 target. A lot of armies in my Meta are nasty msu lists.

Please also keep in mind, this is designed for a doubles tournament. I won't be the only one advancing towards the enemy, so I'm trying to also design something that will mesh well with others.

look your gonna get munched the chimeras are gonna die then your gaurdsman

Dabansheedude wrote:look your gonna get munched the chimeras are gonna die then your gaurdsman

Thank you for constructively pointing out and repeating what has already been discussed in this thread, then adding a bit of your own wisdom to help me build a more balanced and fun list. All while using perfect grammar and spelling.

How about we try this then;

HQ

Company Command Squad; Officer of the fleet, straken = 175


Elites
Marbo = 65


Troops

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad; MG = 40
Infantry Squad MG, Commissar with pwr weapon = 100
Infantry Squad MG, = 60
Infantry Squad MG, = 60


Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad; melta bombs = 35
Infantry Squad; MG = 60
Infantry Squad; MG, commissar with pwr weapon = 95

Fast Attack
Valkyre = 100

Heavy Support

Griffon Heavy Mortar x 2 = 150
Griffon Heavy Mortar x 2 = 150
hydra x 2 = 150 or Griffon Heavy Mortar x 2 = 150

TOTAL 1250

Jamora wrote:Thanks for the replies!
My list was based off of an article I read of Stelek's
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2011/05/imperial-guard-jargon/

I guess I'm kind of stuck. I dont want to run a vet spam list, but I want atleast 1 blob supported by a bunch of vehicles :S

Hey I got around to checking out that link and now I see what you're going for, but I think you missed a few key components. While I wouldn't say the list he made was based around the Devil Dog and Exterminator LR it's hard to say it wasn't haha. I think you'd well to take one devil dog, a Hydra (doesnt give you the AV14 that was so important in that list but it gives you the S7 48" shots you'll need), and a squad of Stormtroopers who will DS and give a Chimera to a new found SWS, drop the astropath and you should be set with 15 extra points (all to your original list). That should give you a more accurately watered down version of what he gave.

sumi808 wrote:How about we try this then;

HQ

Company Command Squad; Officer of the fleet, straken = 175


Elites
Marbo = 65


Troops

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad; MG = 40
Infantry Squad MG, Commissar with pwr weapon = 100
Infantry Squad MG, = 60
Infantry Squad MG, = 60


Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad; melta bombs = 35
Infantry Squad; MG = 60
Infantry Squad; MG, commissar with pwr weapon = 95

Fast Attack
Valkyre = 100

Heavy Support

Griffon Heavy Mortar x 2 = 150
Griffon Heavy Mortar x 2 = 150
hydra x 2 = 150 or Griffon Heavy Mortar x 2 = 150

TOTAL 1250

This list seems much better because it is balanced: Long range S9 lascannons in a vendetta. Long range anti-infantry and light vehicles represented in hydra and griffon. Then you have commissars in the two blobs who have meltas and power weapons for assaulting. They can move and shoot with the meltas which is a good too. Seems the list has most bases covered.

I suggest just adding 2-3 vendetta to make up to the 1250pts mark. each one toting 3 twin linked lascannons = long range rape-factor, with the ability to also transport any of those men, without needing chimeras. looks like a winner to me.

Agree with you there kyranzor.

Pinning all your hopes of ranged anti-tank fire on 1 single Vendetta probably not a good idea as they are quite easy to bring down and you are limited to shooting at only 1 unit.

4 Griifons and 2 Hydras is a bit excessive. You could take 2 Hydras and 2 Griffons. Use the other points for an extra Vendetta. So you have something like this:

HQ

Company Command Squad; Officer of the fleet, Straken = 175


Elites
Marbo = 65


Troops

Infantry Platoon 1

Platoon Command Squad; Meltagun.
x3 infantry squads combined, with meltas, commissar with pwr weapon.


Infantry Platoon 2

Platoon Command Squad; melta bombs.
x 2 Infantry Squads combined; MG, commissar with pwr weapon.

Fast Attack
Vendetta: 130pts
Vendetta: 130pts

Heavy Support

Griffon Heavy Mortar x 2 = 150
Hydra: 75pts
Hydra: 75pts

TOTAL: Around 1250pts

Sorry I couldn't recalculate points (writing this in a rush) but i'm sure it comes to about 1250pts, maybe 10pts or so over (drop some minor wargear if it's an issue). You could always drop Marbo and just make Platoon #2 a 30-man combined squad so you have 2 30 man blobs on the table.

Would be hard for the enemy to target all the units you'd have on the table in this list. Prioritisation would be difficult because everything can harass the opponent: Even if your blobs get locked in CC you still have the Griffons and Hydras doing a lot of damage to infantry and light vehicles. Then you'd have the 2 vendettas racing around destroying tanks at range and picking up and dropping troops on objectives if needs be.
Would probably be a very effective list. Test it on the Vassal 40k programme and I bet you'd have success.

Why does everyone keep adding Marbo? He seems like he wouldn't be that effective. Am I wrong on that?

Jamora wrote:Why does everyone keep adding Marbo? He seems like he wouldn't be that effective. Am I wrong on that?

So when Marbo comes on you put him wherever you want and dump a Bs5 Demo charge. Then your opponent has to deal with him and his 3+ cover save or else he'll keep pokin at him. So he's a good distraction and any unit who can come outta nowhere and one shot a squad of Long Fangs is good in my book. Almost always makes his points back both directly and tactically.

I've never used Marbo but saw from your list you included him so just assumed you wanted him in there. That's the sole reason I included him.

You could ditch him and expand the second platoon to 30 men. Or get another griffon or hydra or something.

Marbo is great, whenever I dont bring him, I feel like I should have.

He is 65 pts for a unit, but if he can get my opponent to think twice about any move he has earned back his points. That Demo charge usually lands on target, and Ive had it take down entire squads of grey knights and terminators.

He does not scatter when he comes in, and with some scary stats for a guardsman, most opponents know to hate him. If you have not used him, I say try him, just one game, you will either be very happy or very disappointed, and only disappointed if the scatter dice is not on your side

Personally, I live by spamming heavy weapons teams. And with one heavy weapons squad box set, (also buying six 60mm bases) you can make 3 mortar teams, 3 missle launcher teams, and three teams of either lascannons autocannons or heavy bolters. Great buy.

The way I try to run things is basically using un upgraded guardsmen (maybe a flamer thrown in) as a buffer/distraction for my big guns to remain less molested by enemy fire. The amount of heavy weapons you can fit into 1250 points is pretty high, and saturates your deployment zone/ battle line.

What I think would do quite alright is to eliminate some of your unecessary chimeras and grab heavy weapons teams.

Especially if you are playing doubles. Anyway, I think making the teams into a more anti tank role (lacannons and missle launchers), and having a hyrda or three to take on groups of tougher enemies will work well. I've employed it multiple times in fact.

What I would go for is somewhere more along this line:

HQ

Company command squad: 50 pts

Troops:
Platoon Command- 30pts

Infantry Squad
Sergeant power weapon
Commissar with power weapon
Flamer
=110pts

Infantry squad
Flamer
=55pts

Infantry Squad
Flamer
=55pts

Mortar Squad= 60pts

Missle Launcher Squad= 70pts

Lacannon=75 pts

Troops:
Infantry Squad
Sergeant with power Weapon
Commissar with power weapon
Flamer
=110

Infantry Squad
Flamer
=55pts

Infantry Squad
Flamer
=55pts

Mortar team= 60pts

Missle Launcher squad= 70pts

Lascannon Squad= 75pts

Fast Attack
Vendetta
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
= 140pts

Heavy Support
Hyrda= 75pts
Hydra= 75pts

Comes to 1250 exactly. I've run lists similar to this one and have come out on top most of the time. Your Command Squad basically sits back and orders the heavy weapons while your infantry blobs by platoon and races towards the enemy. Your opponent has to choose between attacking your heavy weapons or your massing infantry.

To note a few things about the last list posted.

Both the CCS and PCS's will do next to nothing without weapons. The blobs won't really be able to accomplish much as there's one power weapon sergeant and the commissar, and no really effective special weapons. In addition, mixing the weapons in the squads is a bad idea, as one lascannon or missle team will do next to nothing, especially when paired with mortars. I have to assume this is the case as only one weapon upgrade has been paid for in the squads. For example, the lascannon squad should cost 105 points if all 3 are lascannons. I also find putting HB sponsons on vendetta's doesn't accomplish much as its supposed to target tanks rather than infantry

orkboy232 wrote:To note a few things about the last list posted.

Both the CCS and PCS's will do next to nothing without weapons. The blobs won't really be able to accomplish much as there's one power weapon sergeant and the commissar, and no really effective special weapons. In addition, mixing the weapons in the squads is a bad idea, as one lascannon or missle team will do next to nothing, especially when paired with mortars. I have to assume this is the case as only one weapon upgrade has been paid for in the squads. For example, the lascannon squad should cost 105 points if all 3 are lascannons. I also find putting HB sponsons on vendetta's doesn't accomplish much as its supposed to target tanks rather than infantry

The idea of command squads are for orders in a lower points game, which I considered 1250 to be.

As a blob of infantry, I use them to rush the enemy, and eventually charge them. Obviously you need assault weapons to do that effectively. Flamers are perfect. Other weapons aren't as effective as the flamer for what they are trying to achieve. They cut down the number of enemy models the infantry have to assault into. 3 templates goes a long way.

Second, the heavy weapons squads were not mixed... they were a squad of the weapons as the list says. Also, on that note, I did not have my codex to make the list, and apparently undershot the points costs for the weapons. That I will take responsibility for.

As for the vendetta, I use it for both anti tank and anti TEQ. So 6 extra shots thrown in has proved influential in my games.

The list is to give an idea which hasn't been given, heavy weapons.

I know how to play guard, I've been doing it for ten years.

I'm not trying to start an argument. I just prefer to run melta's and meltabombs in the blobs to help deal with vehicles and walkers. As for the flamers helping with assaults, I agree totally, I just place 4 of them in the PCS and use them as a support unit rather than and orders unit. I also run the CCS with 2 special weapons and a lascannon or autocannon to be a fire support unit.

Here is the 1250 point foot list I run

HQ
CCS - lascannon, 2xsniper rifles, lascannon, camo cloaks
(100)

Troops
Platoon 1
PCS - 4xflamers
(50)
IS - commissar w. PW, sergeant w. PW/meltabombs, meltagun
(120)
IS - sergeant w. PW/meltabombs, meltagun
(75)
IS - sergeant w. PW/meltabombs, meltagun
(75)
HWS - 3xautocannons
(75)
HWS - 3xlascannons
(105)
Platoon 2
PCS - 4xflamers
(50)
IS - commissar w. PW, sergeant w. PW/meltabombs, meltagun
(120)
IS - sergeant w. PW/meltabombs, meltagun
(75)
IS - sergeant w. PW/meltabombs, meltagun
(75)
HWS - 3xautocannons
(75)
HWS - 3xlascannons
(105)

Heavy Support
Hydra
(75)
Hydra
(75)

Total 1250 points

I guess mine comes from playing the same people over and over. I don't like arguements either.

I don't personally like to use command squads for anything other than commands, as they are taken out too quickly by the people I play. I've seen it been done to fantastic success, and I've also seen it fail.

Anyway, yours looks like a more competitive list than mine was. I just wanted the OP to recognize heavy weapons squads is all.
You clearly have done a better job of it.

Now you've made me feel like a dick

With the command units I feel most people don't focus on them due to the rather pointy 30 man blobs moving towards them. That said, the PCS's seem to die a lot, but I don't really sweat it for 50 points. And your army just suits a different playstyle. I'm used to playing my mech vets which are extremely attack oriented, so I prefer my foot list to be the same, whereas yours seems to suit a more defensive doctrine

Don't feel that way. I mean no ill will to you. I enjoy it when people come up with better play styles and lists than me. It gives me a better perspective and makes me look at things differently.

We are all friends here

I personally really like both of your lists.

Don't worry about 'arguing' - you are disagreeing and keeping it friendly and explaining why you disagree and being constructive about it.
I personally really like the suggestions people have made in this thread as it's made me re-evaluate my list and makes me think it's not as competitive as I first believed.
I like Orkboy's list - I have always run autocannons in a static 40 or 50 man blob, very defensive sitting back and drawing fire while meltavets in chimeras provide the offensive role.
But I think I might try your list with meltas instead. I have used Hydras and Griffons to make up for the blobs flaw that it can only target one unit at a time and has to remain stationary to make use of the autocannons. But I think I want to move my list in the direction of having assault blobs with meltas and more HWS sitting back providing long range covering fire.