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I started in 2nd edition of 40,000; I got involved with a group that had been dabbling in it since Rogue trader, well at that time the game was easy to figure out, if you were playing Space Marines you had the advantage, but if you tooled your chaos, eldar, or imperial guard just right you could give the space marines a run for their money, but in the end the Space Marines would win slightly over half if ran correctly. Orks were just fun to play, but didn't have much of a chance to win. I got in by borrowing miniatures at first and just learning the game, and I started with Tyranids because the Nip player wasn't there most of the time, and he let his brother bring the army with if I wanted to play his nids. It was when the Nids got their first codex which had them able to kill and beat Marines most of the time. Then 4th edition came out and Nids were not so good, but neither were the Space Marines, and the other armies were able to win there share....

Well all my playing 5th ed, and all the new codexs, it seems like Space Marines are back on top, with the exception that GREY KNIGHTS are the UBER Space Marines and they are GOD!... of course in 4th ed they seem to have been trying to level out the power of all the armies bring the powerful armies down to the less powerful armies or raise the less powerful armies to the level of the powerful armies... BUT then the Last 4th Ed Codex was released and Chaos DAEMONS destroyed that concept, and then 5th ED started and tried making armies closer to daemons then Grey Knights came out to make Daemons not so good, the only thing is Grey Knights not only were able to have distinct advantages against Daemons, they had distinct advantage of all armies books from 4th edition and 5th ed. But then Grey Knights are specialized against daemons and that is only reason they are able to defeat daemons so much, all the newer codexs for 5th ed seem to bring their army up to almost the level of Grey Knights and Daemons but not Quite.

Seems to me that you the current Power structure in 40K is:
Grey Knights
Specialty Space Marines (space Wolves, blood angle, dark angle, and all the specialty codexs that have been released in 5th I don't keep track of them)
Chaos Daemons
Space Marines
TYyranids
Imperial Guard
Necon
Eldar
Tau
Chaos Space Marines
Orks


Seems that the game has shifted back to about were it was in 2nd and 3rd edition with a little weaking of the Nids and strengthening of the Daemons, in 2nd and 3rd Daemons were POWERFUL but they were Expensive point costs

Am I crazy... well I am crazy, people who know me know this fact, but to me seems that Games workshop has went back to the idea of making Space Marines kings of 40K again. Of Course Chaos Space marines got Hosed in there 4th ed release and they are not expected to get a codex till 6th edition.

they lost Machine spirit of land raider, they can't have heavy weapon unless 10+ men in squad, they lost most of their customization, they lost most of the fluffiness of there individual chapters, and they are just so Blane with little flavor. Space Marines are very flavoraful with thier 5th ed codex and the newer expansions.

The fact that you have Daemons near the top and Tyranids above Imperial Guard in the power scale makes me think you're playing in bizarro world.

yeah, daemons are somewhere between Tau and CSM in viability.

and Tyranids are WAY below IG

Orks are higher than that. Imperial guard are much higher than that. Necrons are still a bit nebulous since they just came out. C:SM is lower than that with the exception of Vulkan holding up the book.

-Loki- wrote:The fact that you have Daemons near the top and Tyranids above Imperial Guard in the power scale makes me think you're playing in bizarro world.

Well the Tyranids players in my area always seem to destroy imperial guard, the 3 main players of imperial guard play their armies totally differnt and they all just can't seem to handle either of the Nids players.

the only army I have lost to with my deamons 1 on 1 was grey knights, but on that same not the Grey Knight player focuses his army to fight other players.... When we play games, you never know what army you will be facing, you have to build an army then we figure out who we are facing to prevent players from min/maxing there armies.

-Loki- wrote:The fact that you have Daemons near the top and Tyranids above Imperial Guard in the power scale makes me think you're playing in bizarro world.

Yeah, Really.

Necrons are way to low too. They've been placing very high since the new dex.

Orks are definitely not the worst army out there. CSM are still better than Tau. IG is better than Nids, Necrons are better than Nids, and Dark Eldar do, in fact, exist.

daniel79 wrote:Well the Tyranids players in my area always seem to destroy imperial guard, the 3 main players of imperial guard play their armies totally differnt and they all just can't seem to handle either of the Nids players..

That just makes them terrible Guard players, not that Tyranids are powerful. The Guard codex is still one of the strongest.

daniel79 wrote:the only army I have lost to with my deamons 1 on 1 was grey knights, but on that same not the Grey Knight player focuses his army to fight other players.... When we play games, you never know what army you will be facing, you have to build an army then we figure out who we are facing to prevent players from min/maxing there armies.

That, again, doesn't mean Daemons are good, it means your opponents aren't. Daemons are one of the lowest teir armies. Tyranids are about mid-field. Theyre not errible, but they've got nothing on the big players like Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Guard.

And I realise that everybody's recollections of long-forgotten editions tends to differ, but as I remember it, 2nd Ed. Space Marines were utterly pants compared with Eldar, Chaos Marines and (especially) Tyranids, the army who introduced the concept of "codex creep" to me.