2500 Empire List

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**Crazyterran**

Now, this could be a terrible army, i'm trying to figure out an army list without really have gone through the rules. (Trying to figure out how to buy, what to buy, etc. for my army)

So, I figure, before actually buying anything, I may as well have you fine folks take my list apart and try to to help me figure out what i could do to make it better!

Here it is:

Empire - 2500pts

Lords: <=625 356pts

Heroes: <= 625 Total: 263pts

Core: 625+ Total: 879

Special: <= 1250 Total: 1000

Rare: <= 625 Total: 0

Heroes/Lords:

General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Wyrmslayer Sword, General - 131pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Talisman of Protection - 225pts

Battle Standard Bearer - Griffon Standard, Light Armor, Shield - 134pts

Warrior Priest - Dawn Armour, Great Weapon - 129pts

Core:

State Troops - 29 Men, Halberds, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 165pts

State Troops - 29 men, Swordsmen, Duelist, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 199pts

State Troops - 15 men, Halberds, Sergeant, Musician, Standard Bearer - 95pts

State Troops - 20 men, Handguns, Marksmen, Musician - 170 pts

State Troops - 30 men, Crossbows, Marksmen, Musician - 250pts

Special:

Knights of the Inner Circle - 15 Men, Preceptor, Musician, Standard->War Banner, Lance, Shield - 430pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Mortar - 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Greatswords - 19 Men, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor - 220pts

-2498pts

**biccat**

Crazyterran wrote:Trying to figure out how to buy, what to buy, etc. for my army

First piece of advice: wait a month or so until the new Army Book comes out. Until then you're safe buying state troops (I haven't heard any rumors of them changing) and artillery - I don't think either of those are likely to go out of style.

There are rumors of new Knights however, so you should hold off on that. Also, I think the Empire Battallion got pulled off shelves recently, so it might just make sense to wait and see what develops.

Crazyterran wrote:General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Wyrmslayer Sword, General - 131pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Talisman of Protection - 225pts

In the current meta the Arch Lector on War Altar is probably the best lord choice. Equip him with Van Horstmann's Speculum and you're off to a good start. The General is good, but the AL gives multiple benefits:
- Dispel dice
- Same Ld as general
- more survivability
- bound spells

I'm not saying you have to take the Warpope (I like a Templar Grand Master myself, but he's expensive), just that he is considered the best lord choice right now. That's likely to change when the new Army Book comes out.

Crazyterran wrote:Battle Standard Bearer - Griffon Standard, Light Armor, Shield - 134pts

Warrior Priest - Dawn Armour, Great Weapon - 129pts

Don't take a magic standard on your standard bearer. The Griffon standard is nice, but not worth the points. With the current load out your BSB is a T4 model with 5+ armor save and 6+ parry. He'll die fast, which is going to hurt, you need the standard bearer to hold your troops.

Crazyterran wrote:State Troops - 29 Men, Halberds, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 165pts

State Troops - 29 men, Swordsmen, Duelist, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 199pts

State Troops - 15 men, Halberds, Sergeant, Musician, Standard Bearer - 95pts

Drop the third unit of halberds and boost up the other two units.

Crazyterran wrote:State Troops - 20 men, Handguns, Marksmen, Musician - 170 pts

State Troops - 30 men, Crossbows, Marksmen, Musician - 250pts

Way too large of units here. If you're going to use shooting smaller units work better, mostly because you can only fire from 2 ranks. Most players rely on warmachines (cannons and mortars) to do our shooting. Personally, I don't like using ranged infantry, so I would suggest replacing these with a unit of Flagellants. Plus, if you're using an Arch Lector, they become troops.

Crazyterran wrote:Knights of the Inner Circle - 15 Men, Preceptor, Musician, Standard->War Banner, Lance, Shield - 430pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Mortar - 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Greatswords - 19 Men, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor - 220pts

Not too bad here. I assume the Warrior Priest is going to ride with the greatswords?

**kenshin620**

15 Inner Circle Knights are way too much imo. Drop them down to 5 or 6 or 10. Knights work best as a support unit. Maybe even drop their command down to a musician. Points saved can buff up the greatswords

**Crazyterran**

biccat wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:Trying to figure out how to buy, what to buy, etc. for my army

First piece of advice: wait a month or so until the new Army Book comes out. Until then you're safe buying state troops (I haven't heard any rumors of them changing) and artillery - I don't think either of those are likely to go out of style.

There are rumors of new Knights however, so you should hold off on that. Also, I think the Empire Battallion got pulled off shelves recently, so it might just make sense to wait and see what develops.

Crazyterran wrote:General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Wyrmslayer Sword, General - 131pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Talisman of Protection - 225pts

In the current meta the Arch Lector on War Altar is probably the best lord choice. Equip him with Van Horstmann's Speculum and you're off to a good start. The General is good, but the AL gives multiple benefits:
- Dispel dice
- Same Ld as general
- more survivability
- bound spells

I'm not saying you have to take the Warpope (I like a Templar Grand Master myself, but he's expensive), just that he is considered the best lord choice right now. That's likely to change when the new Army Book comes out.

Crazyterran wrote:Battle Standard Bearer - Griffon Standard, Light Armor, Shield - 134pts

Warrior Priest - Dawn Armour, Great Weapon - 129pts

Don't take a magic standard on your standard bearer. The Griffon standard is nice, but not worth the points. With the current load out your BSB is a T4 model with 5+ armor save and 6+ parry. He'll die fast, which is going to hurt, you need the standard bearer to hold your troops.

Crazyterran wrote:State Troops - 29 Men, Halberds, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 165pts

State Troops - 29 men, Swordsmen, Duelist, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 199pts

State Troops - 15 men, Halberds, Sergeant, Musician, Standard Bearer - 95pts

Drop the third unit of halberds and boost up the other two units.

Crazyterran wrote:State Troops - 20 men, Handguns, Marksmen, Musician - 170 pts

State Troops - 30 men, Crossbows, Marksmen, Musician - 250pts

Way too large of units here. If you're going to use shooting smaller units work better, mostly because you can only fire from 2 ranks. Most players rely on warmachines (cannons and mortars) to do our shooting. Personally, I don't like using ranged infantry, so I would suggest replacing these with a unit of Flagellants. Plus, if you're using an Arch Lector, they become troops.

Crazyterran wrote:Knights of the Inner Circle - 15 Men, Preceptor, Musician, Standard->War Banner, Lance, Shield - 430pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Mortar - 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Greatswords - 19 Men, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor - 220pts

Not too bad here. I assume the Warrior Priest is going to ride with the greatswords?

I'll keep the General in my working list until we find out what changes in the Lord Department. I dropped the Griffon Standard to just a standard standard. (>.&gt

I buffed up all of my State Troop units from the dropped Xbows/Hand Gunners, and added in another mortar to help make up for the shooting. I also picked up a unit of Flagellants (as you'll see when I link my redone army list below).

kenshin620 wrote:15 Inner Circle Knights are way too much imo. Drop them down to 5 or 6 or 10. Knights work best as a support unit. Maybe even drop their command down to a musician. Points saved can buff up the greatswords

I dropped half of the Knights and picked up a ton more Greatswords for the cost.

Here's the updated list:

Empire - 2500pts

Lords: <=625 356pts

Heroes: <= 625 Total: 229pts

Core: 625+ Total: 690

Special: <= 1250 Total: 1067

Rare: <= 625 Total: 170

Heroes/Lords:

General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Wyrmslayer Sword, General - 131pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Talisman of Protection - 225pts

Battle Standard Bearer – Battle Standard, Full Plate Armour, Shield – 85pts

Warrior Priest - Dawn Armour, Great Weapon - 129pts

Core:

State Troops - 69 Men, Halberds, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 365pts

State Troops - 50 men, Swordsmen, Duelist, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 325pts

Special:

Knights of the Inner Circle – 7 Men, Preceptor, Musician, Standard, Lance, Shield – 222pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Mortar – 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Greatswords - 39 Men, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor - 420pts

Rare:

Flagellants: 16 men, Prophet of Doom – 170pts

-2497pts

**biccat**

Crazyterran wrote:Heroes/Lords:

General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Wyrmslayer Sword, General - 131pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Talisman of Protection - 225pts

Battle Standard Bearer – Battle Standard, Full Plate Armour, Shield – 85pts

Warrior Priest - Dawn Armour, Great Weapon - 129pts

Maybe move the Dawn Armor to the BSB (giving him a 3+ rerollable) and give the Warrior Priest AOMI (1+). Otherwise, this is a decent start. Maybe take Sword of Might instead of Wyrmslayer, but you'll see what works for you.

Crazyterran wrote:State Troops - 69 Men, Halberds, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 365pts

State Troops - 50 men, Swordsmen, Duelist, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 325pts

Run the halberds in Horde formation. You might even be able to get away with reducing them to 59 which would give you another 2 IC Knights.

Crazyterran wrote:Mortar – 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Greatswords - 39 Men, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor - 420pts

Rare:

Flagellants: 16 men, Prophet of Doom – 170pts

I'd drop a mortar (you can use 3, they're awesome...but some people see using 3 as cheesy) and add more Flagellants. Maybe see if you can work in 30 flagellants & 30 greatswords. If you've got points left, maybe add the Speculum, Rod of Power or at least a dispel scroll on your Wizard lord.

**Crazyterran**

biccat wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:Heroes/Lords:

General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Wyrmslayer Sword, General - 131pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Talisman of Protection - 225pts

Battle Standard Bearer – Battle Standard, Full Plate Armour, Shield – 85pts

Warrior Priest - Dawn Armour, Great Weapon - 129pts

Maybe move the Dawn Armor to the BSB (giving him a 3+ rerollable) and give the Warrior Priest AOMI (1+). Otherwise, this is a decent start. Maybe take Sword of Might instead of Wyrmslayer, but you'll see what works for you.

Crazyterran wrote:State Troops - 69 Men, Halberds, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 365pts

State Troops - 50 men, Swordsmen, Duelist, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 325pts

Run the halberds in Horde formation. You might even be able to get away with reducing them to 59 which would give you another 2 IC Knights.

Crazyterran wrote:Mortar – 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Greatswords - 39 Men, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor - 420pts

Rare:

Flagellants: 16 men, Prophet of Doom – 170pts

I'd drop a mortar (you can use 3, they're awesome...but some people see using 3 as cheesy) and add more Flagellants. Maybe see if you can work in 30 flagellants & 30 greatswords. If you've got points left, maybe add the Speculum, Rod of Power or at least a dispel scroll on your Wizard lord.

The main reason i was running the Dawn Armour on the Warrior Priest was to give him a comparable save to the Greatswords, who he'll be chilling with. Would it be a better investment to move it over to the BSB, who can buy simple Full Plate? Should I also drop the 50pts of Halberds and use that to allocate Wargear onto the Wizard Lord, or should I definitely pick up two more Knights? With my General of the Empire, the 8men would beable to form two cavalry ranks, right?

And why are 3 Mortars cheesy? Would it get me in trouble with people I play with?

And is dropping 9 Greatswords to bump up the Flagellant squad good? The Flagellants didn't seem too amazing, from what I could tell just looking at them. Am I missing something?

**Aerethan**

Crazyterran wrote:Heroes/Lords:

General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Wyrmslayer Sword, General - 131pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Talisman of Protection - 225pts

Battle Standard Bearer – Battle Standard, Full Plate Armour, Shield – 85pts

Warrior Priest - Dawn Armour, Great Weapon - 129pts

Core:

State Troops - 69 Men, Halberds, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 365pts

State Troops - 50 men, Swordsmen, Duelist, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 325pts

Special:

Knights of the Inner Circle – 7 Men, Preceptor, Musician, Standard, Lance, Shield – 222pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Mortar – 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Greatswords - 39 Men, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor - 420pts

Rare:

Flagellants: 16 men, Prophet of Doom – 170pts

-2497pts

Why on earth waste points on a 6+ ward for your wizard? Either go with the 4+ ward or don't take one at all, 6+ just won't do much. Dawn armor is much more important on your BSB as you need him to survive more than a warrior priest(btw light armor is never ok to take for Empire, ever). 3 mortars is too many, and units of 8 cavalry are no good as you don't get a rank and it will be too wide in a single rank to get everyone attacking. Take 5 with a musician for your General to run with.
40 strong Greatswords is a bit much and costs a ton for what they do. 25 or 30 is enough. No unit for Empire needs to be 70 strong. 50 is enough for horde units.

Personally I'd drop the General and take an Arch Lector on the Waltar with the speculum(which may not exist in 2 months time). It's far more useful than a GotE(whose stats compared to other lords are terrible).

Most importantly, wait until April when the new book comes out so you can see the state of things and then choose what to buy. Empire is just not a good army to invest in at this exact moment. If you are antsy you could buy the core troops just to give you something to build and paint while you wait, but I wouldn't buy anything else yet.

**Crazyterran**

Aerethan wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:Heroes/Lords:

General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Wyrmslayer Sword, General - 131pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Talisman of Protection - 225pts

Battle Standard Bearer – Battle Standard, Full Plate Armour, Shield – 85pts

Warrior Priest - Dawn Armour, Great Weapon - 129pts

Core:

State Troops - 69 Men, Halberds, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 365pts

State Troops - 50 men, Swordsmen, Duelist, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 325pts

Special:

Knights of the Inner Circle – 7 Men, Preceptor, Musician, Standard, Lance, Shield – 222pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Mortar – 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Greatswords - 39 Men, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor - 420pts

Rare:

Flagellants: 16 men, Prophet of Doom – 170pts

-2497pts

Why on earth waste points on a 6+ ward for your wizard? Either go with the 4+ ward or don't take one at all, 6+ just won't do much. Dawn armor is much more important on your BSB as you need him to survive more than a warrior priest(btw light armor is never ok to take for Empire, ever). 3 mortars is too many, and units of 8 cavalry are no good as you don't get a rank and it will be too wide in a single rank to get everyone attacking. Take 5 with a musician for your General to run with.
40 strong Greatswords is a bit much and costs a ton for what they do. 25 or 30 is enough. No unit for Empire needs to be 70 strong. 50 is enough for horde units.

Personally I'd drop the General and take an Arch Lector on the Waltar with the speculum(which may not exist in 2 months time). It's far more useful than a GotE(whose stats compared to other lords are terrible).

Most importantly, wait until April when the new book comes out so you can see the state of things and then choose what to buy. Empire is just not a good army to invest in at this exact moment. If you are antsy you could buy the core troops just to give you something to build and paint while you wait, but I wouldn't buy anything else yet.

Hmm, ok. I changed the list up some more, and here it is. (I know a book may be coming out, so i'll just keep the general for now and adjust when the new book comes out)

Heroes/Lords:

General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Sword of Power, General - 156pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Van Horstman’s Speculum, Dispel Scroll - 265pts

Battle Standard Bearer – Battle Standard, Dawn Armour, Shield – 112pts

Warrior Priest – Heavy Armour, Great Weapon - 98pts

Core:

State Troops - 49 Men, Halberds, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 265pts

State Troops - 49 men, Swordsmen, Duelist, Standard Bearer, Musician, Light Armor - 319pts

Special:

Knights of the Inner Circle – 7 Men, Preceptor, Musician, Standard, Lance, Shield – 222pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Great Cannon - 100pts

Mortar – 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Mortar - 75pts

Greatswords - 30 Men, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer - 330pts

Rare:

Flagellants: 29men, Prophet of Doom – 300pts

-2492pts

**PapaSmurf**

I would drop the prophet from the flaggies and simply take another flaggie

Why no detachments for the big blocks?

Why is the speculum on the wizard lord? you dont want that guy fighting, he really should have a ward save

I would rearrange the BSB equipment, full plate with a shield, dragonhelm and ????

cheers

Papasmurf

**Aerethan**

Perhaps drop 2 Knights and a mortar and take a rocket battery or helblaster. 3 mortars aren't worth while if you end up facing something like Warriors of Chaos or other high T enemies. For goblins and skeletons they are great. 2 is enough IMO. Helblasters are still over estimated by opponents which makes for a great distraction as they will try to kill it first, and when they do go off properly it is glorious.

Other than that, it's a decent place to start for the time being.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PapaSmurf wrote:I would drop the prophet from the flaggies and simply take another flaggie

Why no detachments for the big blocks?

Why is the speculum on the wizard lord? you dont want that guy fighting, he really should have a ward save

I would rearrange the BSB equipment, full plate with a shield, dragonhelm and ????

cheers

Papasmurf

Why waste a magic armor slot on gaining +1sv and a fire ward? Dawn Armor, Dragonbane Gem, Shield. Much better as you get the rerolls AND the fire ward. Or Armor of Meteoric Iron and Dawnstone for a 1+ rerollable. Granted no fire ward but that is a very situational thing anyway. I would go with the second build as it's the most protection.

**biccat**

PapaSmurf wrote:Why no detachments for the big blocks?

Because detachments, while fun, aren't that good in the current incarnation. You need at least 2 ranks to disrupt (which is why you'd want them) and can't eliminate steadfast. You're essentially giving the enemy get 2-3 extra attacks for +1 CR.

PapaSmurf wrote:Why is the speculum on the wizard lord?

Because even the strongest Empire characters can't stand up to most armies' dedicated combat lords. There's little chance that the Wizard lord will get hurt (1 attack at WS3, S3) using VHS. Just make sure he challenges if the enemy doesn't.

* just giving ideas for Crazy Terran to think about.

Crazyterran wrote:General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Sword of Power, General - 156pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Van Horstman’s Speculum, Dispel Scroll - 265pts

Battle Standard Bearer – Battle Standard, Dawn Armour, Shield – 112pts

Warrior Priest – Heavy Armour, Great Weapon - 98pts

Since you don't have a lot in your Heroes slot, maybe swap out the wizard lord for 2 level 2s. You'll lose +2 to cast, but should be able to take a Rod of Power and won't have all of your magical potential in one model.

Like Aerethan said, you won't need 3 mortars, usually. And for cases where 3 would be effective, 2 is sufficient.

As for Flagellants: the advantage they have is that they're steadfast. Also, it usually makes sense to sacrifice 1 or 2 each round of combat, so smaller units can get reduced quick.

**Crazyterran**

biccat wrote:
PapaSmurf wrote:Why no detachments for the big blocks?

Because detachments, while fun, aren't that good in the current incarnation. You need at least 2 ranks to disrupt (which is why you'd want them) and can't eliminate steadfast. You're essentially giving the enemy get 2-3 extra attacks for +1 CR.

PapaSmurf wrote:Why is the speculum on the wizard lord?

Because even the strongest Empire characters can't stand up to most armies' dedicated combat lords. There's little chance that the Wizard lord will get hurt (1 attack at WS3, S3) using VHS. Just make sure he challenges if the enemy doesn't.

* just giving ideas for Crazy Terran to think about.

Crazyterran wrote:General of the Empire - Warhorse, Barding, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Sword of Power, General - 156pts

Wizard Lord - Level 4, Van Horstman’s Speculum, Dispel Scroll - 265pts

Battle Standard Bearer – Battle Standard, Dawn Armour, Shield – 112pts

Warrior Priest – Heavy Armour, Great Weapon - 98pts

Since you don't have a lot in your Heroes slot, maybe swap out the wizard lord for 2 level 2s. You'll lose +2 to cast, but should be able to take a Rod of Power and won't have all of your magical potential in one model.

Like Aerethan said, you won't need 3 mortars, usually. And for cases where 3 would be effective, 2 is sufficient.

As for Flagellants: the advantage they have is that they're steadfast. Also, it usually makes sense to sacrifice 1 or 2 each round of combat, so smaller units can get reduced quick.

So you think, drop a mortar, and load the Flagellants up more? send those crazy lunatics raving right into something soft and squishy?

I'll think over dropping the Lord and making two level 2s - would play to the advantage that the wizard box comes with two wizards!

**biccat**

Crazyterran wrote:So you think, drop a mortar, and load the Flagellants up more? send those crazy lunatics raving right into something soft and squishy?

I'll think over dropping the Lord and making two level 2s - would play to the advantage that the wizard box comes with two wizards!

Pretty much, yeah.

I also run 2 wizards - 1 with my knights and 1 with an infantry block. Mainly because I have a mounted wizard and wizard on foot.

The mounted wizard rides with my TGM to absorb challenges.

**uriell4ever**

Sorry, noob question here: How can you field 6-7 special choices when the 2500 rules say 0-4 special choices... thanks

**Aerethan**

uriell4ever wrote:Sorry, noob question here: How can you field 6-7 special choices when the 2500 rules say 0-4 special choices... thanks

Someone needs to read the 8th edition rules

Or you are referring to the restriction on taking multiples of the same unit. You can take as many special options as you want, but you can't take more than 4 of the same special unit.