Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am putting together my first FoW German tank company list. Being cheap, I am using the PSC kits, which I find to be quite great. So I settled with PSC for tanks and halftracks and Battlefront for infantry (PSC infantry is quite ugly IMO...)
I am using Fortress Europe as the basis for now - don't know if it will be replaced with the new edition or not. However, my first question is, which tanks are better for Company HQ - Panthers or Panzers IV H? Secondly, I am planning to run one platoon of Gepanzerte Panzergrenadiers as well. Is this a viable choice or am I doing something wrong? In future, I plan to expand my models so I could switch between Gepanzerte Panzergrenadiers with Panzer support to Panzers with infantry support. To be historically accurate I am basing them on Grossdeutschland. GD also allows me to field Panther tanks, since they recieved some of them closer to the end of the war. Also that would allow me to field some Branderburgers for some diversity .

Thanks in advance!

It really depends on wether or not you want to run 2 panther platoons as your combat companies. If not, I'd just run them as pz4's and take a unit of panthers and panzer 4's in your combat platoons

Why do I have run two combat platoons of panthers? As per rules, I need only one platoon with same tanks as in HQ, right? Is there any additional usefulness to run two platoons? In fact, I was planning to run one full platoon with IV's and second with panthers.

Yep, one combat platoon mus be equipped the same as your HQ. Two platoons of Panther is a big points sink, one platoon of panthers and one of Panzer IVs is ok.

Remember to invest in some artillery FlaK and recon. FoW rewards a combined arms approach to army building. If you're playing armour you may want to keep them cheap so you can afford more tanks, especially if you're fielding panthers.

Pathers are good as HQ but they're also almost twice as expensive as Panzer IVs. A box of PSC Panthers and Panzer IVs will allow you to field either platoon at minimum strength with enough spare vehicles to make up a commander and 2iC in the same vehicle.

There's no specific list for Grossdeutschland in FoW though I have heard that Panzer Lehr is a fair match.

They are very much like Lehr. PSC are also awesome, I weight mine down as they are a bit light but otherwise I think they are great. Your thoughts on swapping between Panzer and Panzer Grenadier forces is pretty much what we all do, it means you can have nice Tank force and a nice Infantry force and swap out depending on your list. It keeps things fresh and allows a bit of flexibility.

The other thing about Panthers is that they are Medium Tank with a "Superb Gun" so people think it's a Heavy because it just about out punches any other Tank in the game. However it can dish the pain, but it most certainly cannot take it, unlike the Tiger or IS2 which can take an absolute thrashing and keep coming on for more.

The Panther in many ways exemplifies the German Force Structure, small numbers of amazing technical, capable but over engineered vehicles trying to hold back a Tsunami of cheap but effective enemy vehicles be it Shermans, Fireflys, T34/85's, IS & IS2's.

I think all round the Panzer IV is the best tank in the game, its combination of price, gun, robustness and effectiveness means you can field alot more of them and can really stick it to the enemy. The same with the humble STuG, 3 Panthers can on a good day easily wipe out a Tankovy, but they can be fragile for the points.

Tigers on the other hand get PANZER ACE Skills which normally more than make up the slightly inflated price, and the slightly less capable 88mm gun. Some of the PANZER ACE Skills turn your tigers into Rampaging Cats, but for godsake keep Aircraft off them, especially Cannon armed Aircraft.

I love Panthers, they look mean. They are the best looking Tank of WW2, and look almost like modern MBT's. I bought them as with Lehr it's Panzer IV's / Panthers or Tigers. Panthers are fun to play (like Jagdpanthers) but I wouldn't put them in a Tournament army because you end up with very little for your points and they are too easy to kill.

I like taking Panzer IV's and some Recce Puma's because I get two decent sized Platoons versus one small Platoon of Panthers. All vehicles are vulnerable if you get their Side Armour. Distract with one unit hit with the other, Tigers side Armour is 8, PUMA AT is 9. Okay FP is not so good as others but you can take out heavy vehicles if you get the drop on them, and thats the skill.

Thanks everybody! So would You suggest me getting the Panthers or maybe rather invest into StuGs? Or just take two full platoons of IV's, infantry support and then invest into recon? How useful is aviation? (I'be been looking at the Zvezda kits). Another question - it appears that it is not mandatory to put vehicles on the bases, but I can do so if I wish, right?

I would say Panzer IV's because you can proxy them and use them in EW and MW, Panthers are very much MW, LW.

STuG's are a good alternative, but you lose the Turret and a Co-ax MG. Whether you buy STuG's or Panzer IV it is a solid investment and available in alot of lists.

HQ
2 x Armour Platoons
1 x Recce
1 x AAA

+ If you can a Pioneer platoon or Grenadier Platoon.

Another stupid question - what does "AAA" mean? Anti+air/assault + ... artillery? I have not yet got used to FoW abbreviations, although they are not as sofisticated as the 40k ones (TDA RP w/JoWW and CoTS )
Regarding recce teams, which work best for Panzer Kompanie? Motorcycles or Panzerspah? And in case of latter - which cars - Puma, 231, 250/9 or maybe Panzer II Lynx?

Anti - Air - Artillery, so things like Flak36's, mobile Anti-Aircraft weapons etc etc.

From V3, two critical factors will apply to Tank forces, Vulnerability to ambush and attack by concealed, gone to ground forces (countered with RECCE units), and vulnerability to air attack especially in open ground (countered by AAA units).

On Panzer Kompanie, it's dependant on what you are running. Dirty Jon on the forum runs a large Panzer III M army and has had some success without any Infantry at all, this is due to the High ROF of the Panzer III M makes it good at killing Infantry. (i think it was Mid-War but cannot remember the list).

It's about points priorities, flexibility and above all compromise. If you have enough points grab some AAA and RECCE it will keep your armour alive.

I like Puma's they hit hard, but are easily neutralised. If you get them in a good position you can flank an enemy and even a Heavy Tank is going to be concerned with an AT 9 unit hitting them in the side armour. I've never run motorcycles, basically because I prefer a sizable, survivable infantry platoon and use recce vehicles.

So launching smoke is not that important anymore? I also grabbed five Point of Contact plastic Tigers for a fair price but judging from their points cost, it appears that they are reserved for larger games - or as an army of themselves .
Then my next priority will be a recce team, then AAA. I believe that apart of points cost, the aestethics of miniatures do play some role in FoW as well? For example, the points cost of Flakpanzer and SdKfz 7/1 are quite close, so can I base my judgment on which miniature I like more?

Yes smoking is important for Infantry on Infantry, infantry versus tanks and for stopping HMG's and Artillery mowing you down . But based on the cost in points of Tanks would you better with AAA or Recce or smoke throwers? If you can afford to take it, take it, but if not well Tigers Marsch lists do okay with Heavy Tanks and AAA (maybe a pioneer/scout platoon).

I use cheap units to smoke enemy, like 2 mortars etc. All you need is two tubes generally, so why pay points than is necessary to do the job. Also you don't many options for this in a Panzer list.

Look closely at the FP value on AAA, some aircraft like Russkie Sturmoviks are like flying tanks and need a good firepower check to take them out (I believe they have a special rule too, making them harder to kill). So remember Firepower tests as well and factor this in. Otherwise, go with what you like, i collected what I liked and eventually learned what worked for me and what didn't and tactics that worked and tactics that didn't. Some of the fun is the journey!