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On GW official site, Cypher is in the category of Chaos Marines.If I remember correctly, he is considered by the Imperium to be a traitor.But he is not chaos driven nor a renegade.So what is he?

He's a mystery! He works with Chaos but doesn't take any gak from them, and nobody really knows his true motivations.

In terms of army lists you can treat Chaos/Traitor/Renegade as the same thing, regardless of their ties to Chaos.

Chaos Cajun wrote:On GW official site, Cypher is in the category of Chaos Marines.If I remember correctly, he is considered by the Imperium to be a traitor.But he is not chaos driven nor a renegade.So what is he?

Really? The picture of "Cypher" from the HH novels would paint him as a chaos follower....

Cypher is an enigma, no one knows if he is a devoted chaos worshiper, sewing the seeds of discord across the Imperium or one of the repentant fallen, on a mission to ultimately redeem himself, the fallen and the Dark Angels.

Chaos Cajun wrote:On GW official site, Cypher is in the category of Chaos Marines.If I remember correctly, he is considered by the Imperium to be a traitor.But he is not chaos driven nor a renegade.So what is he?

"What he is" is in the previous edition of Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

No, really. That's why he is in the Collector's section of Chaos Marines. When that book was out, Cypher had a very "mysterious" background but he also wasn't appropriate to put into the Dark Angels pamphlet/army book. He just fit better into that book.

He's in the CSM section because he appeared as a choosable character in their army book once.
Although I think that same army book stated that another army could take him as a choice, but I don't remember who now.

EDIT: Outflanked by Kanluwen. Damn.

Imperial guard could also take him, I believe 3rd edition.

Thanks for the info.

Cypher is in one of the old CSM books because he is a "fallen angel" - one of the dark angels who sided with Luthor during the Horus Heresy. IIRC there was some speculation in that book that he was leading a warband of other fallen angels who were travelling towards Terra in order to seek redemption at the hands of the Emperor, who would reforge a broken blade that Cypher carried with him (but never drew.) Then the GW fluff team decided that was dumb and got rid of him. That's my best information. Hope it helps.

You could say the same about the Alpha Legion, given all the speculation about them being "secret" loyalists. Some people class the soul drinkers as chaos followers by default, since they were declared excommunicate traitoris.

The imperium (and perhaps GW) like to put everyone in one of two categories: either "loyalist" or "renegade" - but the distinction should be observed that not all renegades are chaos worshippers.

Bring back Cypher and the fallen they were awesome. Also Doomrider there isnt enough crack addicts in 40k any more lol

Check the DE codex

They all moved to Commoragh, where the good stuff is


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wazzdakka swiped his stash, also.

That's an ork that needs a few ZZZ's

GreatGunz wrote:who would reforge a broken blade that Cypher carried with him (but never drew.)

I believe that's the Dark Angels' holiest blade, the one that Lion El'Jonson used to fight Luther. I don't remember what its called exactly.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:
I believe that's the Dark Angels' holiest blade, the one that Lion El'Jonson used to fight Luther. I don't remember what its called exactly.

Rather predictably, it's called the Lion Blade I think

Er, it was called "The Lion's Blade" for a reason.

Not because it was shaped like a lion or anything, but because The Lion wielded it.

master of asgard wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:
I believe that's the Dark Angels' holiest blade, the one that Lion El'Jonson used to fight Luther. I don't remember what its called exactly.

Rather predictably, it's called the Lion Blade I think

Well not everyone stores specific pieces of fluff in their memory, or has the time to look stuff up.

because the savior of the galaxy needs to be painted as bad at first

Ulthanashville wrote:You could say the same about the Alpha Legion, given all the speculation about them being "secret" loyalists.

That was ten thousand years ago. No one in the present timeline twirls their mustaches harder than the Alpha Legion now.

That's right. In WH 30k they're secret infiltrators trying to save humanity from chaos; in WH 40k they're as deluded as everyone else. The lower ranking commanders weren't told the real nature of the mission, because the legion was so secretive. When the few commanders who knew the real mission got killed off, their secret died with them. Now the Alpha Legion is as committed to chaos as anyone. That's always how it goes with chaos worship.... at first you use chaos like a tool, but it ends up using you like a tool.

In that whole scene with Alpharius and the Cabal I kept wanting to tell Alpharius, "They're aliens don't listen to them!" He forgot the number one rule of the warhammer universe: Fear the Alien. Kill the Alien.